Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[mrjitty]

Wouldn’t this be excuses RA’s defense should’ve been presenting to the court if they had any merit? As the D didn’t, neither disclosure nor medications were a suspected cause for his confessions. (Of note, only mention of anything significant preceding his confessions was he had found religion.) The D blamed the confessions on his incarceration and suggested it should be considered coercion by the state. The Judge disagreed and ruled the confessions are in.

Judge rules accused Delphi killer Richard Allen's alleged confessions can be used as trial evidence

A judge ruled multiple confessions that Richard Allen allegedly made in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in 2017 can be used as evidence at trial.

abc7chicago.com

“The statements given by the defendant were unsolicited by any of the individuals and were voluntarily given without coercion or interrogation," Special Judge Fran Gull wrote in the ruling. "The evidence shows he specifically sought out the Warden by written communication he initiated, and verbal statements he offered to the guards, inmates, mental health professionals, and medical personnel."

I think you've nailed the issue.

The factors like psychosis etc go to the weight the jury will ultimately give these confessions, but they don't make the confessions involuntary - and I guess that is why the D did not appear to make that argument.

Just as a question of common sense, I think you are going to struggle with the idea confessions to wife/mum/doctor are 'involuntary' - even in a context of incarceration.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Can you please site a source for this?

<modsnip - personalizing>

It was mentioned at the hearings in the Holeman testimony by Defense Attorney Rossi actually. Lines12 to19 on page 15 in the link below.

I know I read it somewhere else and Holeman just rings a bell on being the source. I'll try and keep looking for that one too.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

 

[sunshineray]

I’d be more convinced if (when) someone finally asks if RA began to confess before or after he received disclosure, and when his mental health issues are better examined and detailed (eg: had he had medications? Which? When? Given by whom? Why? What amount? Side effects that are common? Rare but can happen etc). Moo. If we are going to lock someone up and throw away the key then hopefully it’s an airtight case that jurors and the victims family can feel ok with down the road. I can’t think of anything worse than possibly feeling reservations or wondering if the guy convicted is the right guy.

In Harshman's testimony he mentions a specific date of March 21, 2023 as the beginning of RA's come to God moment. Then Harshman testifies that a few days after the confessions started.

Lines 12 to 25 on page 9 on through pages 10-11
in the linked pdf.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/delphi-3-day-hearing-dectective-brian-harshman-testimony-pdf.529492/

 

[Melted]

I could very easily see this happening just based on how many people I have seen online who do not believe RA is guilty at all, vs how many believe he is - based only on whatever has been made public to date (erroneously or otherwise) by either side! moo

To be fair, at this point I don’t think RA is guilty.

I believe that could easily change once I hear the states case.

A lot of people are strictly basing his innocence off the lack of publicly available information.

For me personally, following this case since day one. It’s a gut feeling, I believe he possibly played a role in it but I don’t think he was the killer.

 

[sunshineray]

I think you've nailed the issue.

The factors like psychosis etc go to the weight the jury will ultimately give these confessions, but they don't make the confessions involuntary - and I guess that is why the D did not appear to make that argument.

Just as a question of common sense, I think you are going to struggle with the idea confessions to wife/mum/doctor are 'involuntary' - even in a context of incarceration.

MOO

Yes I agree. And Harshman's testimony bears it out that it was shortly after RA's come to God moment on March 21, 2023 that RA began confessing. I think at trial the specifics of that change of heart will be laid out in great detail.
I just recently posted the line numbers and pages Harshman talks about this during his hearing testimony. MO

Edit: here they are again

Lines 12 to 25 on page 9 on through pages 10-11 in the linked pdf.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/delphi-3-day-hearing-dectective-brian-harshman-testimony-pdf.529492/

 

[shonyakay]

It was mentioned at the hearings in the Holeman testimony by Defense Attorney Rossi actually. Lines12 to19 on page 15 in the link below.

I know I read it somewhere else and Holeman just rings a bell on being the source. I'll try and keep looking for that one too.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

Thanks for posting this. I had posted before that I was pretty sure that there was a statement about his daughter's friend having been talked to.
Since it was stated right after the box cutter information from Holeman, I assumed that is what Holeman talked to the daughter's friend about. With the transcript, now I see that it could just mean any thing RA said while in DOC.
Btw, my comment was deleted because when I posted it I couldn't post a link to the source because it is unapproved here.

 

[shonyakay]

To be fair, at this point I don’t think RA is guilty.

I believe that could easily change once I hear the states case.

A lot of people are strictly basing his innocence off the lack of publicly available information.

For me personally, following this case since day one. It’s a gut feeling, I believe he possibly played a role in it but I don’t think he was the killer.

The first time I saw RA's mug shot picture when he was arrested, I thought, that don't look like bridge guy.
I guess I was expecting a physical match to be obvious right away. However, RA appears to have been heavier in 2019 as opposed to pictures of him in 2016. Also the BG video is so grainy that the man looks different in almost every frame even though we know it is the same man during the video. At some points BG in the video looks older, at other times younger.
When the PCA came out I believed RA was guilty
based on the timeline that he gave via Dulin's report.
Ever since then the evidence/testimony keeps leading towards him, not away from him imo.

 

[sunshineray]

Perhaps it’s this?

BBM

Richard Allen reportedly made ‘confessions’ to inmates, guards; attorneys say he was in ‘state of psychosis’

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Richard Allen reportedly made “incriminating statements to both inmates and guards” during his time in prison awaiting his double-murder trial. His attorneys want…

fox59.com

“Allen also reportedly expressed sorrow to another inmate over “molesting Abby, Libby and others which he specifically named.”

Thanks ClearAhead for finding this!
Now it makes sense to me. Reading this and then Holeman's recent hearing testimony transcript where Attorney Rossi's mentions RA's daughter's friends. It was just in my mind it clicked, remembering somewhere hearing RA had mentioned molesting others. So just my brain function thinking it was all from one statement and now my opinion putting the two together as possibly connected but separate statements. AJMO

 

[Seattle1]

Premiered Aug 26, 2024 #abbywilliams #libbygerman #SusanHendricks

Word on the street today is that Richard Allen, the accused Delphi killer of #abbywilliams and #libbygerman is going to plead guilty. I'll believe it when I see it but I called my dear friend, #SusanHendricks, author of #DowntheHill to talk about it. Delphi Update, He Confessed Over 60 Times! In this gripping update on the Delphi Murders case, we delve into the court proceedings involving Richard Allen, the man accused of the tragic deaths of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The big question everyone is asking: Why did Richard Allen confess 60 times if he didn't commit the crime? Join us as we explore the latest developments, analyze the court's findings, and discuss the implications of Allen's numerous confessions. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more updates on this case and other true crime stories.

 

[Salah11]

I still have hope he will plead guilty because he is only delaying the inevitable.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes, they did say there was little to no blood at the crime scene---The defense did state this, even cruelly saying the victims were likely hung upside down and drained of blood, which would be used in later rituals, without even a shred of evidence of such bizarre findings.

Agreed katy. The D made that CS section in the first Franks as sensationalized and perverted as possible for shock value and to push out their narrative to the public around the gag order with NO REGARD to Abby & Libby and their loved ones or even the people they publicly named. "Ooopsie Judge, we're sorry" is their go to excuse when they get caught intentionally misleading or playing the system.

Their very first PR statement after agreeing a gag order wasn't needed and then that ridiculous FM that showed me their true colors and how they were going to play this case. It's low blow, social media crank randos trying their Defense in the court of public opinion.

It has backfired spectacularly now IMO. Do YOUR jobs Rozzi and Baldwin and get your client into a Court of Law where a jury of his peers will decide his guilt or innocence. You've been dragging your feet and playing the blame games far too long.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

 

[Salah11]

My two pennies worth

The defence with their multiple Franks have tried to sway public opinion with falsehoods. For the people following the case fully, we now know most lies won’t be allowed at trial. But unfortunately, their propaganda still remains in the public domain and, for people only taking a small interest, don't realise its hokum.

Moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

He said the 60+ were direct confessions of RA himself on the phone calls. That's how I understood it. He even mentions the other kinds of confessions, the not so specific kinds, not included in those direct ones. I have no reasons to doubt Detective Harshman's testimony. He doesn't sound like an exaggerator. He even spoke of the empathy he had for RA's family members hearing his words. I take him at his word that RA was specific. He was asked if RA said details only the person involved in the crime would potenially know and he answered, " I believe that's correct, yes". That's very convincing testimony. AJMO

It will be even more damning when it comes to trial time and the jury can read and hear these confessions for themselves. In those Pretrial hearings, that State was answering with as little detailed information as possible as part of protecting their case.

Trial will change that. BG=RG=Killer and it won't be a stretch to come to that conclusion BARD when it's all laid out for a jury.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

My two pennies worth

The defence with their multiple Franks have tried to sway public opinion with falsehoods. For the people following the case fully, we now know most lies won’t be allowed at trial. But unfortunately, their propaganda still remains in the public domain and, for people only taking a small interest, don't realise its hokum.

Moo

I know it's hard to believe, but there is not one of my own friends that know anything about this Delphi case except a few who say "some guy killed 2 teenage girls in Indiana". It happened over 7 years ago, the general public has short attention spans, especially with all the things IRL that has come after this, ie; COVID, Wars, Mass shootings, Politics, etc.

Many of us have followed the case closely here from the beginning and can recite most details from memory. That isn't the case for the general public IMO. Voir dire will hopefully cut any preconceived potential jurors out.

I believe they will be able to seat a fair and unbiased jury, and I also believe once that jury is presented with all of the facts they will be able to reach a conclusion. I happen to think it will be guilty, based on the totality of the evidence we've seen and read so far, but I'm also waiting to hear the evidence hammer to drop from the State.

Brick by brick, RA has built a wall of guilt around him IMO.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

In Harshman's testimony he mentions a specific date of March 21, 2023 as the beginning of RA's come to God moment. Then Harshman testifies that a few days after the confessions started.

Lines 12 to 25 on page 9 on through pages 10-11
in the linked pdf.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/delphi-3-day-hearing-dectective-brian-harshman-testimony-pdf.529492/

That's a dead link. It appears that you linked to the page that contained the link and that page is no longer there.

 

[Vern]

To be fair, at this point I don’t think RA is guilty.

I believe that could easily change once I hear the states case.

A lot of people are strictly basing his innocence off the lack of publicly available information.

For me personally, following this case since day one. It’s a gut feeling, I believe he possibly played a role in it but I don’t think he was the killer.

A lot of people are also basing his not being guilty (or rather - their questionning of his guilt) solely on the Franks' (that's ALL they are talking about!).

Now that the transcripts are out (vice just MS coverage etc) that also largely question and show that the more salacious bits of the Franks' were a stretch, at the very best, of the facts, they still choose to never-doubtingly believe the Franks' over sworn testimony and haven't raised a concern within even an iota of the problems now seen with the debunked Franks'. More sworn testimony and facts will come at trial.

Some of them are so "unbiased" that their bias is showing. Biased against guilt, against the prosecution, against the Judge, against any state experts, against the system but certainly biased for the Franks and the Defence. For those people, RA will never be guilty in their eyes regardless if he is found so by an unbiased jury of his peers who will actually see and hear all the evidence in this case and regardless of whether or not there are appeals for eons. RAs got fans. Fans of either side rarely make it through voir dire.

Justice for Abby and Libby.

 

[Vern]

Some articles from MSM that also cover Dr. Wala's testimony:

https://www.wane.com/news/indiana/delphi-murders-case-attorneys-argue-where-richard-allen-should-be-held-more-motions/

Channel 13 WTHR Coverage:

Indiana State Police investigator says Richard Allen confessed 61 times to Delphi murders

The man accused of killing two Delphi teenagers has confessed more than 60 times to committing the murders, according to an Indiana State Police detective assigned to the case.

www.21alivenews.com

Just want to bring this previous repsonse to TTF14 forward again as I see it's still being debated as to when RA started his bizarre behaviours and confessions.

Source is MSM coverage of Dr. Wala's sworn testimony during the three day hearings. His confessions and behaviour started the day after he received his discovery documents per her sworn testimony:

Monica Wala, ... Wala said Allen exhibited bizarre behavior, including banging his head on the walls, running his head into the cell door and rubbing feces over his body. She said this behavior started April 4, a day after Allen received the legal discovery documents of the case against him. He had also had two recent visits with his attorneys, and she said that could have led to the change in his behavior.
Her testimony continued that it was also that day that Allen’s confessions to other staff started.

After his behavior change, Allen was treated for Brief Psychotic Disorder and did improve, she said. Allen also dealt with depression well before his arrest and was being receiving medication for it at Westville Correctional Facility.
...
Wala also described a call Allen made to his wife in front of her where he reportedly confessed to the crime over the phone.

Indiana State Police investigator says Richard Allen confessed 61 times to Delphi murders

The man accused of killing two Delphi teenagers has confessed more than 60 times to committing the murders, according to an Indiana State Police detective assigned to the case.

www.21alivenews.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

A lot of people are also basing his not being guilty (or rather - their questionning of his guilt) solely on the Franks' (that's ALL they are talking about!).

Now that the transcripts are out (vice just MS coverage etc) that also largely question and show that the more salacious bits of the Franks' were a stretch, at the very best, of the facts, they still choose to never-doubtingly believe the Franks' over sworn testimony and haven't raised a concern within even an iota of the problems now seen with the debunked Franks'. More sworn testimony and facts will come at trial.

Some of them are so "unbiased" that their bias is showing. Biased against guilt, against the prosecution, against the Judge, against any state experts, against the system but certainly biased for the Franks and the Defence. For those people, RA will never be guilty in their eyes regardless if he is found so by an unbiased jury of his peers who will actually see and hear all the evidence in this case and regardless of whether or not there are appeals for eons. RAs got fans. Fans of either side rarely make it through voir dire.

Justice for Abby and Libby.

I can only speak for myself.

Because of all the exonerations coming out of Indiana, I would hope that everyone would put this case under a microscope.

Everything we've heard in this 3 day transcript is from the prosecution's side. I'll have to wait to hear from the defense. Too bad that I won't be able to hear it all. Oh, wait... I'm probably not going to hear any of it because it probably won't be streamed. I'll only get to hear what the judge, prosecution and MSM want me to hear.

The judge was willing to set a hearing for S&L. I believe there is evidence in it.

(Snip)
If defendant's new counsel inform the Court they intend to pursue the Franks Motion, the Court will schedule a hearing.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

08C01-2210-MR-000001
11/14/2023

 

[Vern]

"From the prosecutions side"??

The Defence also called witnesses. In no way, shape or form was this just the "prosecution". Perlmutter for example?

Would that include the testimony where the individuals that the Defence used in supporting the 'facts' (I use that term loosely here) they supposedly laid out in their Franks' saw those individuals testify that they:

- had been taken out of context by the Defence;
- that they could not place any other (previously named) POIs at the crime scene;
- that others (who were allegedly confessed to) were found unbelieveable and unreliable;
- that they had no probable cause for search warrants or arrests of those others;
- Where Dr. Wala herself testifies that she believed RA may have been faking his behaviour;
- the blood expert who noted there WAS blood at the crime scene;
- who also noted that the "F" was not an "F";
- who also testified that Abby was not re-dressed after her murder??

Edited to Add: And slowly but surely the transcripts are being uploaded here (includes Perlmutter's etc). They are hoping to receive the remaining transcripts by the end of the month for upload:

3 Day Hearing - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

I can only speak for myself.

Because of all the exonerations coming out of Indiana, I would hope that everyone would put this case under a microscope.

Everything we've heard in this 3 day transcript is from the prosecution's side. I'll have to wait to hear from the defense. Too bad that I won't be able to hear it all. Oh, wait... I'm probably not going to hear any of it because it probably won't be streamed. I'll only get to hear what the judge, prosecution and MSM want me to hear.

The judge was willing to set a hearing for S&L. I believe there is evidence in it.

(Snip)
If defendant's new counsel inform the Court they intend to pursue the Franks Motion, the Court will schedule a hearing.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

08C01-2210-MR-000001
11/14/2023

Not so, the Defense presented their own witnesses (magical thinking Pearlmutter) and cross examined every State's witness, so it wasn't just from the Prosecution.

MOO