Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[FrostedGlass]

The hearing went exactly how it should have went. The state it trying to release very little ahead of this trial and it seems that is the exact opposite of what the defense was trying to do. I find it interesting the defense didn't include any of the 60+ factual confessions in their many pages and pages of filings. They included a few things that turned out to be something an inmate said to RA not something RA said in a "confession".. he never said he shot the girls in the back, but yet that showed up in a defense filing trying to paint all his confessions as false and ridiculous so the court would throw them all out. That wasn't even a statement RA made. Funny how they didn't include any of the statements to his wife or mother.. none of the ones he made that the detective testified to that were all consistent with the crime. This is one of the reasons many of us don't find the defense claims as factual at all because too many of the things they have claimed as fact are now shown to be untrue.

What we should have gotten in the 3 day hearing was any FACTS the defense had to show any of their 3rd party people could have even been in Delphi on Feb 13th, 2017 and we got nothing. ZERO.

Would you please supply the link to that part of your post that I bolded for emphasis?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think you know a Franks Hearing is not automatically granted by a Judge simply by the defense requesting one be held in a written motion? This topic has been hashed to death.

The D must first prove the allegations that LE lied when obtaining the search warrant, during a hearing if required. She may have decided to not hold one based on B&R’s motion. Regardless JG disagreed a Franks Hearing was warranted and denied the motion. Just because she might’ve held a hearing for L&S to present their arguments for a Frank’s Hearing doesn't obligate her to hold one for B&R. JMO

Yes, I believe I've seen that said several times. As I posted above and here again, S&L were also preparing a Franks Memo. So they obviously found something they thought was awry, too. MOO

CourtTV interview with BMac regarding her interview with Labrato: They were also preparing a Franks Memo for a Franks hearing alleging that there were problems with the information that was used to obtain the search warrant for Richard Allen's home.
5:50mm

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=739579024809854

 

[ClearAhead]

Regarding your bolded statement.....I have not heard anything, from anyone, that convinces me this is true. Especially not before he received the Discovery and/or heard others (i.e. the guards who copied all of the Discovery) discussing it around him or directly TO him. This is my opinion. I believe he was placed here he was, treated as he was, for the sole purpose of trying to get a confession out of him. Opinion.

IMO MOO

Who would you expect to have talked about it? The Prosecution is doing an admirable job of adhering to the gag order. MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

Yes, I believe I've seen that said several times. As I posted above and here again, S&L were also preparing a Franks Memo. So they obviously found something they thought was awry, too. MOO

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=739579024809854

I’m not sure where you’re coming from. Is it if S&L had not been removed from the case, they could’ve been successful in getting the search warrant tossed? Purely speculation, there’s no proof LE lied so it wouldn’t matter who presented the FM. B&R thought they found something too but it was nothing much. What’s the reason L&S wouldn’t have shared their brilliant find with R&B?

 

[sunshineray]

Hopefully only the ones that are recorded will be allowed, not the hearsay ones.

IMO MOO

There are exceptions to the hearsay rule. Some may apply in this case. I don't know, different statutes in different states.

 

[sunshineray]

Regarding your bolded statement.....I have not heard anything, from anyone, that convinces me this is true. Especially not before he received the Discovery and/or heard others (i.e. the guards who copied all of the Discovery) discussing it around him or directly TO him. This is my opinion. I believe he was placed here he was, treated as he was, for the sole purpose of trying to get a confession out of him. Opinion.

IMO MOO

Harshman's testimony puts RA's confessions starting a few days after March 21, 2023. Isn't that before the April date of the discovery being given to RA?

 

[ClearAhead]

There are exceptions to the hearsay rule. Some may apply in this case. I don't know, different statutes in different states.

The DT were criticized for not categorizing the multitude of confessions and presenting specific arguments to each category, something they didn’t bother to do. The judge ruled the confession are allowed to be heard, no limitations expressed that I noticed.

Judge rules Richard Allen’s alleged confessions of Delphi murders can be used as evidence in trial

Allen reportedly admitted guilt to the murders as many as 61 times during his months in prison. A judge ruled these confessions can be used as evidence in his trial.

www.wrtv.com

“Richard Allen allegedly made several confessions to killing Abby Williams and Libby German, and now those confessions can be used as evidence in his trial, a judge ruled on Thursday.

Allen reportedly admitted guilt to the murders as many as 61 times during his months at Westville Correctional Facility. Special Judge Fran Gull ruled that these admissions can be heard in court.”

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Yes, I believe I've seen that said several times. As I posted above and here again, S&L were also preparing a Franks Memo. So they obviously found something they thought was awry, too. MOO

CourtTV interview with BMac regarding her interview with Labrato: They were also preparing a Franks Memo for a Franks hearing alleging that there were problems with the information that was used to obtain the search warrant for Richard Allen's home.
5:50mm

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=739579024809854

It’s still the same search warrant being ruled on, just minus the part that has been proven fantasy.
Same warrant; same outcome in a ruling.

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think it was Dr. W's personal phone was it? I thought it was a phone from another office from where they were meeting because she had to dial the number for him. The first time his wife hung up on RA and the second time RA insisted she stay and listen.

That's how I remember it, but I could very well be wrong.

JMO

Thank you girlhasnoname, yes I believe you're correct.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Yes, I believe I've seen that said several times. As I posted above and here again, S&L were also preparing a Franks Memo. So they obviously found something they thought was awry, too. MOO

CourtTV interview with BMac regarding her interview with Labrato: They were also preparing a Franks Memo for a Franks hearing alleging that there were problems with the information that was used to obtain the search warrant for Richard Allen's home.
5:50mm

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=739579024809854

Heresay. Not under oath. She says what her understanding is.
Someone thinking someone else is preparing a Franks is not the same thing as there being one prepared.
Time mark 5:46.
All my opinion this is all speculation to fuel the flames of conspiracy.

 

[statt#1]

Do ya think we'll hear RA'S own voice admitting he murdered these girls? Will they play that at trial, and release that actual voice recording to the public? Imagine!

 

[tlcya]

In early March RA began reading the bible, then on March 21st he begins to say he has found God and Jesus Christ. then in early April, RA's behavior begins to change drastically as described by Dr. Wala and her testimony which is discussed and linked upthread. Early April is also coincidentally when RA received his discovery. But I find it interesting to note that the discovery of a relationship with God and Christ occurred prior to his receipt of discovery. So in my mind, the discovery had nothing to do with his decision to explore his faith. JMO his own guilty conscious did that.

For those who opine that the discovery could have caused him to confess and that the mere trauma of seeing the discovery made him do it, that rings false to me.

He found God first. THEN saw discovery. THEN began confessing to literally anybody he thought might listen. That is not trauma. That is guilt JMO IMO

(per Harshman testimony on July 31) page 9 line 21 thru page 10 line 7

So I’ve been able to – I feel I’ve been able to pattern his
conversations and what’s going on in his world just by the simple fact of the
amount of time that I’ve spent listening to the conversations; and one of the
things that I noticed was, early in March, Mr. Allen began to become involved in
reading a Bible, and as such, he proclaimed numerous times that on March 21st,
2023, he found Jesus Christ and he found God. Some of those – that statement
was followed up by some calls where Mr. Allen clearly believes that – he made
statements that, you know, he may very likely not be his with family again in
this lifetime, he was concerned and what he wanted to make sure is that if –
when they were in Heaven together – that when they went to Heaven, he could
go to Heaven, too. And it was interesting, because that change of his demeanor
really began to coincide with just several days later the confessions starting.

 

[FromGermany1]

More proof, IMO that whoever committed this crime, planned and knew where he was going.

So it doesn't make sense to think, that the girls tried to escape through the creek, landing on RL-property by chance, and RA only followed them. The order "DTH" meant: first down the hill, then through the creek, finally onto RL-land at the exact place (lower and hidden).
He must have known RL or at least this location, which became the main crime scene. IMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Maybe the lawyers for RA advised them it would not be prudent for them to stay? I dunno... its just moo that they left of their own accord or were possibly advised to by his lawyers... MOO MOO MOO

KA and RA'S mom have shown up for every court date, AFAIK.

They support him and, I assume, believe in his innocence.

This is a brutal double murder. It's gruesome. The women have a right to support their loved one but should have no delusion about what really happened.

A&L's family have to see it. They know what happened to those little girls.

I might be one of a handful of people that believes this, but I personally find it to be disruptive and borderline theatrical if they are allowed to leave when court is actually in trial. Maybe they should opt to stay at home on the days that the Crime scene photos are presented.

AJMO

 

[dkaras]

Can anyone clarify to me what exactly is "discovery" particularly wrt what RA would have received while in custody?

This probably sounds like a basic question but please hear me out: my understanding is that "discovery" for a pending trial is any evidence, reports about evidence, interviews, transcripts of interviews, notes about evidence and interviews, and may consist of hundreds to thousands of literal pieces of paper and/or potentially terabytes of digital information.

For this case, IIUC, the "discovery" would include 5 years of investigation, and anything discovered since RA became a POI, home searched, etc. Is that correct?

Did RA receive one gigantic truckload of all of this one day? Or did his attorneys pick and choose what they sent him?

 

[tlcya]

Can anyone clarify to me what exactly is "discovery" particularly wrt what RA would have received while in custody?

This probably sounds like a basic question but please hear me out: my understanding is that "discovery" for a pending trial is any evidence, reports about evidence, interviews, transcripts of interviews, notes about evidence and interviews, and may consist of hundreds to thousands of literal pieces of paper and/or potentially terabytes of digital information.

For this case, IIUC, the "discovery" would include 5 years of investigation, and anything discovered since RA became a POI, home searched, etc. Is that correct?

Did RA receive one gigantic truckload of all of this one day? Or did his attorneys pick and choose what they sent him?

I don't think it's a basic question. I imagine the "how to" of getting discovery to a person housed in a prison would be a bit complicated. Like, did the defense send staffers with a carload of documents? Or did they send staffers with a couple of boxes of the things they felt it was most important they get RA's input on? Did they deliver it on flash drives?

I too would be curious to know.

 

[AugustWest]

Busy afternoon at the Court Clerk's office:

09/09/2024	Motion to Shorten Time Filed Third Motion for Order to Shorten Discovery Response Period Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 09/09/2024
09/09/2024	Motion to Certify Interlocutory Order for Appeal Filed Motion for Court to Certify Court Order for Interlocutory Appeal Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 09/09/2024

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don't think it's a basic question. I imagine the "how to" of getting discovery to a person housed in a prison would be a bit complicated. Like, did the defense send staffers with a carload of documents? Or did they send staffers with a couple of boxes of the things they felt it was most important they get RA's input on? Did they deliver it on flash drives?

I too would be curious to know.

I think the important issue is that a box of discovery, big or small, was sent to RA in prison. He was left to go through it all by himself, by his idiot lawyers.
This was discussed at the hearing last summer about the motion the defense filed claiming RA was being treated like a prisoner of war. Their intern testified that he took the discovery to RA. He said nothing about going over it with him. The defense attys apparently never did…it was too far to drive.

 

[Seattle1]

Somebody asked about the trial start date and sorry, I failed to quote that post. Nonetheless, it's October 14.

Allen’s trial has already been pushed back several times since his arrest. The most recent trial dates were May 13-31, but the case was pushed to October after the defense told Judge Gull that they needed more time to present their case.

The trial is now set to start Oct. 14 and run through Nov. 15.
8/13/24 -- Delphi murders: Next court date for Richard Allen set

 

[tlcya]

I think the important issue is that a box of discovery, big or small, was sent to RA in prison. He was left to go through it all by himself, by his idiot lawyers.
This was discussed at the hearing last summer about the motion the defense filed claiming RA was being treated like a prisoner of war. Their intern testified that he took the discovery to RA. He said nothing about going over it with him. The defense attys apparently never did…it was too far to drive.

I don't disagree with your post re the dumping an unknown number of discovery documents on their client by an intern of the DT. But the mechanics of that dumping it is not clear to me. In general, I know that legal mail is exempt from being searched in Indiana unless it is opened and searched in front of the inmate and only for the purposes of looking for contraband. I would assume that to be true for discovery as well but do not know this to be fact. Which is why I am curious.

I will drop it because nobody seems to know the specifics about exactly how much and in what form that discovery was delivered.