Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[Tealgrove]

Can someone explain what DBM means? Thanks.

Deleted BY Me

 

[Melted]

Indeed. That's from the night of the search when they could no longer reach or ping the girls' phone thus believed it's battery was dead.

Testimony from an expert since, once the phone was found and it's data analyzed, has shown that it wasn't that the girls' phone was dead at all - rather the phone was under Libby's shoe which was under Abby's body and therefore was experiencing an inability to connect with the multiple towers in Delphi due to them being (deceased IMO) in a valley area where reception was already quite poor.

Can you show me in the transcript where the expert says A) the phone wasn’t dead B) was experience an inability to connect with the multiple towers in Delphi due to them being in a valley where reception was already quite poor?

Thanks in advance

 

[mrjitty]

IMO it's a fools errand to try to answer any of these big questions on the phone based only on Cecil's limited purpose testimony. First, it is clear the state case that the phone was always on until after 4.30am



Secondly, the phone apparently did stuff during the day (background updates) which IMO are going to prove it was never off.



So much will depend on the combination of CAST and Celebrite forensics. But this was a limited hearing and not the full testimony. So first up the FBI Cast expert was not there (I hope he will appear at trial), and second, Cecil was only called for the limited purpose of putting in the video timing, and Apple Health data to establish a time the crime was committed re alibis for SODDI. Auger has no evidence anyone went anywhere in a car - and IMO the trial evidence will show it's wild speculation. MOO

 

[shonyakay]

Deleted BY Me

Thanks.

 

[shonyakay]

Here is a YouTube clip from the night they went missing.
Ill quote Mike Patty: “missing, abducted, we don’t know for sure. Uh, cell phone has been pinging around town here, there’s a cell phone tower but the ping was last noted about 5 to 6 hours ago. They say the phones now dead.”

Time stamp on video 1:17

There was a point LE or a least Holeman believes they/he was told that Libby's phone went off at 5 p.m.
However, he now states that new technology shows that it did not.
Holeman states he didn't know about the 4:33 a.m. texts until recently.
Baldwin claims he (Baldwin) knew about those 4:33 a.m. texts last fall. Baldwin was making a point to state he knew about them before the new Celibrite update earlier this year.

All of this will be hashed out at trial.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/allenholemanjuly30-pdf.530073/

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Sidenote: Libby's phone could have went off and back on at anytime through the night and the following day and it still wouldn't make a bit of a difference to me. My belief in RA's guilt is based on the totality of all of the evidence. Direct and circumstantial.

 

[sunshineray]

Digestion may also be affected by intense stress, which surely the kids were under - I wonder if that may impact the investigation of their stomach contents?

"“When we’re stressed, our brain activates the sympathetic nervous system. The sympathetic nervous system is our flight-or-fight response: it prepares the body to protect itself against imminent danger by conserving functions that aren’t immediately needed for survival. That includes digestion. The emptying of the stomach is delayed, which can lead to a stomachache, indigestion, heartburn and nausea.”

How Stress Affects Digestion—And What You Can Do About It

When we're stressed out, our gut knows it--and suffers too. An expert shares tips to reducing stress and benefiting our digestive health.

www.henryford.com

Yes but we're only talking about 18 minutes of fight or flight stress and then death. MO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm waiting for the Defense to petition the Appellate Court of Judge Gull's denial to certify their IA.

3,2,1...

jmo

 

[mrjitty]

Here is a YouTube clip from the night they went missing.
Ill quote Mike Patty: “missing, abducted, we don’t know for sure. Uh, cell phone has been pinging around town here, there’s a cell phone tower but the ping was last noted about 5 to 6 hours ago. They say the phones now dead.”

Time stamp on video 1:17

This is hearsay that won't be admissible for the purpose of proving when the phone was on or off

I'll simply note that core timeline stuff will be provided by digital evidence, direct evidence like video, and the first hand witnesses. IMO it won't matter what was reported in media stories or claims made by searchers which are not based on any first hand knowledge.

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm waiting for the Defense to petition the Appellate Court of Judge Gull's denial to certify their IA.

3,2,1...

jmo

I’m surprised they didn’t have it ready and at hand but then again they’ll probably wait until a week before the trial is to start in order to cause a delay.

That’s how these guys roll.

MOO

 

[Salah11]

I’m surprised they didn’t have it ready and at hand but then again they’ll probably wait until a week before the trial is to start in order to cause a delay.

That’s how these guys roll.

MOO

Yep professional these two are not. MOO

 

[Salah11]

I wonder at what time the Defense can verify RA’s whereabouts with an alibi.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I wonder if RA bought a new Carhartt jacket after his October 13th interview and deposed of the old one. That sure would be damning.
The gun would be a lot harder to swap out.
He definitely did what he could to not set off alarms. He did change his appearance quite a bit. But he didn’t go the extremes of selling off his assets.
All my opinion.

IMO He probably wouldn't have had time. They searched his property later that day.
Here is a Maps & Media thread link to the transcript detailing that day:

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION #2

Please post media maps & timelines here. *NO DISCUSSION* MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Salah11]

He would get rid of any DNA evidence years before he said what jacket he had indoors. The amount of blood from the crime means he would have quickly of got rid of stuff and likely burned somewhere.

It’s like he admitted he threw the knife in the bin at CVS. A big commercial bin that wouldn't be searched. IMO

 

[justtrish]

Snipped by me:
I think RA backed in and parked at the old CPS building to keep it away from being seen at the main trailhead parking area. His car there would be more noticeable to trail goers and more easily identified.
In regards to the Hoosier Harvest store's camera? Did he even know of it's existence?

Another interesting thing I learned via google.. in Indiana it isn't required that you have a front license plate, just one on the back. Each state is different and where I am we are required to have both front and back, but Indiana only requires one on the back.

So backing in likely served 2 purposes for RA that day. Easier to leave if you just pull out instead of needing to back out and if anyone was driving by, they wouldn't be able to see his license plate easily since the front of his car wouldn't have one on it.

 

[Salah11]

Another interesting thing I learned via google.. in Indiana it isn't required that you have a front license plate, just one on the back. Each state is different and where I am we are required to have both front and back, but Indiana only requires one on the back.

So backing in likely served 2 purposes for RA that day. Easier to leave if you just pull out instead of needing to back out and if anyone was driving by, they wouldn't be able to see his license plate easily since the front of his car wouldn't have one on it.

Thank you for explaining that as being in the UK I didn’t even know that was a thing.

It’s very clever on RA’s part and again points to him going there with the knowledge of what he was planning. MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

IMO He probably wouldn't have had time. They searched his property later that day.
Here is a Maps & Media thread link to the transcript detailing that day:

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION #2

Please post media maps & timelines here. *NO DISCUSSION* MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at...

www.websleuths.com

Yep you’re right. He probably replace that jacket immediately after committing the crimes. Perhaps in a traceable way.
JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Yep you’re right. He probably replace that jacket immediately after committing the crimes. Perhaps in a traceable way.
JMO

Yes, all things are possible. It's possible that he replaced his entire wardrobe, including all the non-wardrobe items, scrubbed all of his electronics, trashed all his burner phones, replaced the carpet in his trunk and got new seatbelts.

In the meantime, I'll just wait for all that solid evidence the P has against him.

 

[Salah11]

RA’s 60+ confessions will also play a massive part. He is on way to spending the rest of his worthless life behind bars.

imo

 

[tlcya]

Digestion may also be affected by intense stress, which surely the kids were under - I wonder if that may impact the investigation of their stomach contents?

"“When we’re stressed, our brain activates the sympathetic nervous system. The sympathetic nervous system is our flight-or-fight response: it prepares the body to protect itself against imminent danger by conserving functions that aren’t immediately needed for survival. That includes digestion. The emptying of the stomach is delayed, which can lead to a stomachache, indigestion, heartburn and nausea.”

How Stress Affects Digestion—And What You Can Do About It

When we're stressed out, our gut knows it--and suffers too. An expert shares tips to reducing stress and benefiting our digestive health.

www.henryford.com

While the stress of being abducted at gunpoint and then murdered MAY have affected digestion, the same would be true of any murder victim [eta in similar circumstance] IMO, and therefore would not affect the accuracy of trained professionals opinions on TOD. IF stress slows digestion of people such as murder victims to the point it affects calculations those professionals would surely be aware and be taking it into account while determining TOD MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

Regarding the timeline the morning of the crime and what the stomach contents might have been:

In the podcast Scene of the Crime (which interviews members of the families), BP says that the girls had pizza for dinner the night before, then spent most of the evening working on a painting with the theme of chocolate and watched movies with KG and friends.

They woke up around 10am after staying up late. BP says that DG made them pancakes for breakfast and the girls hung around the house but shortly started saying they were bored. They asked what they could do. BP offered to let them do some work filing for her that she would pay them for; then they could all go shopping later after BP's work was done. The girls agreed to the filing and shopping plan. They also worked on re-painting a desk for Libby's room. But "sometime around lunchtime" (minute 23:03 of podcast) the girls started talking about going to the Monon High Bridge trail. It is unclear whether or not lunch was eaten before they left but the timing of the drop off makes me think possibly so.

https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/scene-of-the-crime-975846/episodes/recent