Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #197

[steeltowngirl]

RSBM

If this were true, why would the prosecution not say so? And the defence would also know this?

Seems unlikely to me.

I can’t speak for the OP, but my theory was that the Grissom search and accompanying interviews brought forth additional evidence of known suspect RA’s involvement in CSAM / catfishing. The evidence they needed to finally bring charges. He had been either directly in contact with the girls online, using the a_shots or a related account, or he was paid or coerced to target the girls. Due to the active investigation, prosecution could not say more at the time of RA’s arrest.

Now that we know of Vido’s testimony that the search did not connect the others, I have had to put my theory aside and will wait to hear details at trial of a possible motive and how LE circled back to RA. Maybe it really was just a lost tip, and a diligent clerk going through old files finally located it.

jmo

 

[Niner]

Thanks for the tag. Sorry, but I quit my updating job. Maybe this bump will help.

 

[shonyakay]

I might be totally wrong but I believe they are allowed 3 opportunities and they've used 1.

Turns out the 3 continuance only is an old wives tale, this is why we must vet info for ourselves.


Here is Indiana law regarding a continuance.

(A) Either party may be granted a continuance for good cause shown. Except in unusual circumstances no party shall be allowed more than one (1) continuance in any case, and all continuances must have the specific approval of the court. Continuances shall be for as short a period as possible, and where feasible the party not requesting the continuance shall be considered in scheduling a new hearing date. The court shall give notice of the continuance and the new date and time of trial to all parties.

 

[shonyakay]

I haven't seen Vito's testimony yet. Do you know when no link was found?

It had to have been after RA's arrest because Vito testified that he talked to many in Peru and could find no connection between RA's family and the pervert's family. He also testified he could find no digital connection. Meaning no connection between AS account and RA.

 

[FrostedGlass]

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Aww... don't cry.
Someone will probably be posting the actual docs as soon as they find sources.

 

[shonyakay]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
. I watched Carter's interview again and he wasn't talking about any tip coming in, he was talking about "the tip." That is when he talks about putting 60 detectives on it to go back through the case/tips from the beginning.

This may have been what happened in regards to RA and what led to the discovery of DD's tip narrative.

Time stamp: 2:15

 

[girlhasnoname]

Justice for Abby & Libby is what I hope for. Not a who is right or wrong but Justice for two innocent friends out for a walk on MHB never once thinking it would be the last day of their young, innocent lives.

The parents and family members deserve to see Justice and to begin the process of healing, because IMO ‘closure’ is an overused word to those who have suddenly lost a love one in such a brutal fashion. Abby & Libby are gone and never coming home.

Their killer needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. I personally believe RA=BG=Killer and hope that a jury of his peers agrees and RA never sees the light of day as a free man again. That is what the vicious killer of these girls deserves.

JMO

 

[Vern]

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State's Reponse Motion to Certify

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State Objection to Defence Request to Visit Crime Scene

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State Motion in Limine Regarding Defence Witness

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The "Exhibits A through D" (transcripts [now completed apparently] of actual questions posed)

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Non-Party Department of Correction's Response to Motion to Compel Deponents to Answer Certified Questions

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[Niner]

State's Reponse Motion to Certify

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State Objection to Defence Request to Visit Crime Scene

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State Motion in Limine Regarding Defence Witness

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The "Exhibits A through D" (transcripts [now completed apparently] of actual questions posed)

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Non-Party Department of Correction's Response to Motion to Compel Deponents to Answer Certified Questions

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Thank you @Vern - can I use you as my "go-to" person for this case? And I have 2 other Indiana cases I will need help on. TIA if you can help keep my notes straight!

 

[steeltowngirl]

@FrostedGlass
I have long held onto the theory that the Wabash River search was connected, along with other actors being involved in some way. Below is all I can find from Vido’s testimony. I have not seen transcripts stating where no link was made. Noting that the article references a search at the crime scene, not the Wabash. Unsure if that is a media mistake, and they meant Wabash, or if it’s what Vido said.

Vido testified that significant resources were devoted to investigating whether Kline and his father, Jerry, were connected to the murders before Richard Allen was arrested, even taking Kline to a cemetery near the crime scene in August 2022, where Kline claimed to have gone with his dad on the day the girls were killed.

Vido said Kline had told police his father went into the woods for a few hours and came back with blood on him, and that his dad threw a cellphone and knife in the river before they left the area. The detective told the court that investigators later searched the water near the crime scene, but they found no cell phone belonging to Kline or knife matching the one he described.

Vido said after Allen’s arrest months later in October 2022, investigators discovered Allen had at some point lived in the same Miami County neighborhood as the Kline family, but they never found proof the families spent time together.

On cross examination, Vido told prosecutors that police were able to disprove that Kegan Kline and his dad had been in Delphi on the day of the murders, testifying that investigators found cellphone evidence showing both were at home in Peru. Vido told the court that investigators were not able to place Kline or his father at the crime scene or in Delphi on the day of the murders.

Richard Allen gets approval to transfer out of maximum security prison ahead of Delphi murders trial

A third day of pre-trial hearings in the Delphi murders case ended with a win for defendant Richard Allen — he will now be detained in a county jail.

www.wthr.com

 

[sunshineray]

I didn’t say this at all. What I said was, I’ll wait for the trial rather than speculate since we are so close at this point. In a subsequent post I said he has made statements to his family and corrections staff wherein he apparently confessed. He hasn’t told US / the world his confession. It may be a game for him to do this but not change his plea formally. If he were serious and not jerking people around then I expect a change of plea and for him to allocute to the crime.

ISP Harshman has told us what was said, as far as the reason RA changed his mind after 61+confessions and dozens of incriminating statements. Harshman has listened to every communication between RA and his family members. Dr. Wala has also given us her perspective on those relationships between RA and his family. Add to that the warden's info. All told to us under oath. We know some of RA's thoughts and I believe it's gives us a good handle on why he's not changing his plea. Maybe that will change but I have pretty much no hope myself that RA's attorneys will honor any change of mind he may be entertaining at this point. That's just MO from their behaviors throughout this whole case. The above is AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Yes. We know what he says he wrote down. Have we seen his notes yet? Do we know what he asked? Did he write RA’s response verbatim? Did he write it properly as he was told? We hope so. We don’t know so. Yet. The D has raised concerns over his accuracy per my earlier post. We will get clarification soon.

Since that info was included in the PCA I will take that as accurate information. I do not believe there are fasehoods contained in that document, as others have inferred. The judge agreed with that also, four times. MO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Since that info was included in the PCA I will take that as accurate information. I do not believe there are fasehoods contained in that document, as others have inferred. The judge agreed with that also, four times. MO

Agree with you 100%. Defense had 4 swipes at showing that the PCA was incorrect.
They barely referenced the DD tip in the 136 Franks 1.0 and then it was mostly to stir up a little doubt through word play and “what ifs”.
The tip is solid and was taken accurately IMO and will be another piece of damning evidence in the eyes of the jury.
IMO RA was the one that provided any inaccuracies in the tip. Which would be characteristic of a guilty individual that wants to insert themselves in an investigation but not end up in cuffs with 24 hours.
All my opinion.

 

[photographer4]

No, but he could have mis-remembered, confused the times, tightened up a vague reply.... Gotta remember: he stood right up on stage at the PC and didn't put RA on the bridge.

Not sure when he stood on stage - was he there maybe because they hoped he might see / recognize the man who'd been at the bridge that he had talked to? Weird. Why was he there at all? He is a conservation officer, no? mooo

 

[photographer4]

Adding: a car resembling his 2016 Ford Focus was seen on CCTV footage from the Hoosier Harvestore.

Is the state likely to play that video and have a picture of RA's car beside wherever the video is played?

 

[photographer4]

Yup.

And if we grant RA some latitude for when he was there and when he said he was there, nearly a half dozen Franks motions and no mention of any fact that timestamps RA to be somewhere else between 2 and 4 pm that day.

The other people on and near the bridge have verified timestamps backing up their recall.

Libby's recording continues to be dismissed as the witness evidence that is in.

We have the juveniles, one taller with dark hair, who passed by a lone adult male, have a timestamped bench photo to support them.

BB arrived and departed at known/fixed times. Saw Abby and Libby, saw a lone adult male on the bridge.

RA saw a juvenile with brown hair, taller than the others. He said he was on the bridge...

Libby saw something concerning enough to videotape a lone adult male as he approached them. That is evidence. That is a timestamp. Independent of the fact that simultaneously she captured her own (their) abduction, the lone male adult who abducted her (them) and the means and method and location by/with/in which he did it, it's a piece of witness testimony that contradicts one lone adult male who happens to not be excluded from all descriptions but claimed to be there that day, claimed he didn't see Abby and Libby when they were ABSOLUTELY on track to be seen by him, and we're going to grant HIM the benefit of (no) doubt?

If HE can't show that he was somewhere else -- with a witness, a cellphone, a photo -- but multiple people on and near the bridge can produce evidence which corroborates one and another, so how does RA get away with HIS volunteered timestamp being gospel without proof?

He has reason to lie. His family's opinion of him and loyalty to him matters more to him than even God. If we could, I would have us ask him, in the absence of even a shred of evidence putting him anywhere but on the bridge at 2:13 on 2/13, if the photos and facts from the key witnesses -- including Libby -- help jog his memory.

The time for inventing a second bridge guy who slipped in between BB seeing a lone adult male on the very same bridge RA says he stood on (fine, anywhere between 12:30 and 2:07) (but really between just before 2 and 2:07) has passed. RA would have seen him and would have called that in, in person, to make sure HE wasn't mistaken for the twin he tripped over.

It doesn't matter what time RA says he was there because he can't dispute the remarkable stack of timestamps that form the prequel and sequel to the movie Libby recorded in the middle. We can side eye him rightfully for having reason to change his statement but we don't have to look to him to confirm the time at all.

He was there at 1:30, coming or going, doesn't matter which he said, he was at the bridge within the hour of the abduction. That makes him a prime POI. Next step, lock down the time he was there ... based on whom he says he saw, who saw him, cellular data, cctv...

And here we are.

Nobody can get him off the bridge.

JMO

Such a prime POI that when he called the tip line, they sent DD, not even police officer, but a conservation officer to take his information. At a grocery store. Not even at the police station. So prime a POI, the person who met with him thinks he took a recording - but as of last Sept (Franks 1, linked by me in a post above)... he couldn't locate.

2. Its not just that RA can't get himself off that bridge - its that LE can't place anyone ON that bridge (or at the south end where the words DTH were spoken). So I go back to this - a man working for pest control had called Grey Hughes to discuss that he had seen a car parked NEAR the CPS building which was there when he arrived about 8:45am, and there when he left around 2:15pm.

A friend of his saw the same vehicle "on the other side " at about 3:30pm. He saw officers and decided to give them some tips. He asked the officer: "Why was the time on this vehicle reported between noon and five? Well, I didn't know that there was another vehicle and he said it was parked at that CPS building backed in to where they couldn't see the license plate". The caller noted he never saw that CPS car when he was there. BUT:

What made police automatically discount the car along the side of the road in the correct times as being of any interest in this crime? Before even investigating it, they seemed disinterested and more concerned with the car at CPS.... (probably because it was backed in). But my point is - they discounted this tip without even investigating it seems! This makes me wonder, did LE have tunnel vision about the CPS car and then ignore any evidence that it had nothing to do with the crime?

(its an 8 minute video) and I sure would like to know - how did police automatically discount this info in favour of the CPS car? MOO.

 

[katydid23]

Well no, he’s said this to his family and staff at the facility he’s been held in. I’d love for him to tell Us / the world himself via a guilty plea and attest to the court what happened and why etc. But unless he does that, I can only imagine his confessions are false for whatever reason or some sort of way for him to taunt people eg: a sick game. Mooo.

Well, in a way, he is telling 'us' too because he has been recorded while confessing. So some of his confessions will be played for the jury to consider. And his own words will carry a lot of weight.

I do not agree that his confessions have to be 'false' if he doesn't confess again during the trial. There are plenty of reasons why they could be valid confessions. IMO

 

[photographer4]

ISP Harshman has told us what was said, as far as the reason RA changed his mind after 61+confessions and dozens of incriminating statements. Harshman has listened to every communication between RA and his family members. Dr. Wala has also given us her perspective on those relationships between RA and his family. Add to that the warden's info. All told to us under oath. We know some of RA's thoughts and I believe it's gives us a good handle on why he's not changing his plea. Maybe that will change but I have pretty much no hope myself that RA's attorneys will honor any change of mind he may be entertaining at this point. That's just MO from their behaviors throughout this whole case. The above is AJMO

A lot of folks really sound like they believe the D would actually risk their careers by REFUSING to do what their client instructs them to do. Not sure where this mindset comes from, but I hardly think its right to all but accuse them of a breach of their professional ethical duties in the absence of actual evidence of such. MOO.

 

[photographer4]

Since that info was included in the PCA I will take that as accurate information. I do not believe there are fasehoods contained in that document, as others have inferred. The judge agreed with that also, four times. MO

I don't think they outright lied in their PCA either - however, I don't think word salad games are limited to only the D either. We'd be niaive to think that this never happened on part of the State in this case or any other imo.

 

[sunshineray]

A lot of folks really sound like they believe the D would actually risk their careers by REFUSING to do what their client instructs them to do. Not sure where this mindset comes from, but I hardly think its right to all but accuse them of a breach of their professional ethical duties in the absence of actual evidence of such. MOO.

For me, IMO, it comes from an amalgamation of all their past actions.