Actress Natasha Richardson UPDATE has passed away after skiing accident

[eleven]

For starters, the "village" where this "community hospital" is located is a "small village. It may have about 10K people. This hospital serves the small towns around it.

It is not a major place, not a major town, it is equipped for standard visits.

If you have ever been to Quebec, the small historic villages are in the tourists area.

Just like a small town hospital is not equipped to deal with accute emergencies. People are transported to "major" cities like Toronto and or Montreal.

Just like kids that need specialized care are transferred from their small hospital to a major city of 3 million people and a hospital(Sick Kids) that only deals with children as patients.

So again, when this hospital realized the extent of NR injuriess and that they did not have the equipment or Doctors to care for her, she was transferred to Montreal.

There is a helicopter service in Quebec. It is my subscription only at about 3K an hour. But unfortunately the service would not have been available to non subscribers. Plus a hospital has to have the facilities to land a helicopter.

So again, please don't blame the small community hospital, they can only work with what they have. People want to keep the "small village" feel.

Even moreso, most people do not realize that a Level 1 or Level 2 Trauma Center doesn't have the ability to just "spring up" anywhere. Even with the proper equipment, facility and personnel that would be able to deal with trauma situations, in order for a trauma center to exist, there is additional zoning requirements and permission needed to exist on a local AND state level via specialized applications, hearings and legal proceedings. There are very strict rules and standards involved, most of which have to do with the location and traveling distance of other trauma centers, and input from those other facilities and emergency personnel. In the end, it is a highly political decision, unfortunately.

I work in the healthcare administration field, and I can tell you that at a hospital that I once worked at, we tried diligently to be approved as a designated trauma facility. We were a new facility, with nothing but the BEST, top-notch diagnostic and treatment equipment and clinical personnel who were highly specialized in traumatic emergency medicine. We were denied our application, not because of any deficiencies we had, but solely based on the fact that the powers that be did not think the area needed another trauma facility! We were in a large metropolitan city with numerous suburbs and the closest trauma facility was 30 miles away. I was, and still am, amazed how much politics plays into something like this.

 

[CyberLaw]

Thank you for you "nod" Brwngirl, I very much appreciate it.

Let me clarify my post for harleysnana.

No one is turned away, but if you are a non citizen whom does not have insurance, you can expect a bill for treatment. Our health care is not transferable to other provinces, as each province has their own heath care system run by the province. There is a waiting period in each province before "the health care" system kicks in. Again, this is for "legal" citizens of the country.

The province of Quebec unfortunately does not have a "helicopter" available for their province. I have no idea why. The "subscriber" service is a "private" service and has nothing to do with the health care system. It is run by a private company, hence "subscribers" and the fee charged.

In a recent article Quebec stated that helicopters are not a priority, even in wake of what happened to NR.

In Ontario, 5,700 patients were air lifted due to the location and injury. Quebec apparently does have two planes, but of course landing strips do not exist in a lot of areas. A helicopter can land anywhere.

Go figure........

 

[Penelope]

This may be an unpopular thing to say-- but I bet if her husband had been there with her at the ski slope and in the room when she started getting a headache and not feeling right-- he might have asked a few questions and realized he needed to get her to the Trauma Center fast. I am sure he would have approved paying any amount of $ to get her there by helicopter. We will probably never know the true story of what happened that day. But, I would have second thoughts about visiting Quebec to indulge in any high risk sports.

 

[Marthatex]

This may be an unpopular thing to say-- but I bet if her husband had been there with her at the ski slope and in the room when she started getting a headache and not feeling right-- he might have asked a few questions and realized he needed to get her to the Trauma Center fast. I am sure he would have approved paying any amount of $ to get her there by helicopter. We will probably never know the true story of what happened that day. But, I would have second thoughts about visiting Quebec to indulge in any high risk sports.

I had that thought too, about the husband being there. She was evidently very stubborn about seeing a doctor or going to a hospital for care.

People magazine has more details now: http://www.people.com

 

[AlwaysShocked]

If the People magazine story is based on the word of people who work for the Mt. Tremblant ski resort, I would have to doubt its accuracy. Much of the initial information given out by the ski resort was just not true.

"A ski resort spokesperson said Natasha was laughing and walking around after the fall. But according to the New York Times, paramedics who arrived shortly after the fall say they did not see Natasha laughing. To the contrary, they saw her sitting on a stretcher. The paramedics were told to leave.

A resort spokesperson said Tuesday Richardson was taken to the hospital an hour after her fall, but ambulance records obtained by the Times reveal it was nearly three hours after the fall that the second ambulance was called.

And when the ambulance arrived at the hotel, paramedics spent more than half an hour in Richardson's room before transporting her to the hospital. The upshot -- she must have been in really bad shape when they arrived."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/03/20/new-twist-in-natasha-richardson-death/

 

[SeekingJana]

This may be an unpopular thing to say-- but I bet if her husband had been there with her at the ski slope and in the room when she started getting a headache and not feeling right-- he might have asked a few questions and realized he needed to get her to the Trauma Center fast. I am sure he would have approved paying any amount of $ to get her there by helicopter. We will probably never know the true story of what happened that day. But, I would have second thoughts about visiting Quebec to indulge in any high risk sports.

I, too, have wondered if the outcome would have been different if Liam had been with her.
No matter what people are now trying to say in their little Op-Ed pieces on a few news type websites, there ARE early signs of head trauma. Some are vague, like a bit of " mental fogginess". Some are clinical, like a difference in pupil size and reaction to light.
I believe the outcome would have been different with a few factors changed, most of which have already been discussed, the " Golden Hour" being the most critical in head trauma.

I don't think the people running the medical aspects of the " elite" ski resort she was staying and skiing at felt much rush to do anything, because in reality, there was nothing in the way of a life-saving measure which could have been done. Severe trauma, heart attack or other sudden medical event occurring in their elite resort in Quebec= probable death or severe disability, IMO.

I hope we learn more about how many medical emergencies have occurred there, and what the outcomes have been. Not that it will matter as to what happened to Natasha, but because maybe Quebec province will enter the 21st century of emergency medical care and transport if forced to do so.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Snipped for content

I hope we learn more about how many medical emergencies have occurred there, and what the outcomes have been. Not that it will matter as to what happened to Natasha, but because maybe Quebec province will enter the 21st century of emergency medical care and transport if forced to do so.

I understand how everyone wants to hold the resort responsible for what happened, and maybe they didn't do everything right, we will never know. But I can tell you after being in 'elite resorts' here in the States and in Europe, if you are seriously hurt, chances are you are FAR away from a state of the art facility. This has nothing to do with Canada or Quebec being out of date. Some of the richest resorts here are remote meaning they are far from a facility like this. How people want to make this a political thing is a joke.

So what would have been the outcome if NR was on a tour in the Grand Canyon and fell off a cliff and hit her head, but got up and said she was fine? Same outcome, only they would have been sent a $500,000 bill to go along with it!

 

[CyberLaw]

I do not hold any one at the resort responsible for her death. If anything, because of her celebrity status, the resort would have "made sure" they did everything that was possible.

One aspect could have been, she was there with her son. If could have been that she did not want to take a "needless" trip to the hospital when she "felt fine after the accident. Only when she had symptoms of a severe head injury did she consent to treatment.

She was kept under close observation by the staff at the hotel, which apparently is in keeping with protocol for head injury. If you somehow don't think that staff at a "ski" hotel know about head injuries and the symptoms of a head injury, you might want to "quiz" staff. The ski patrol and instructor know all about head injuries.

After a head injury, a person needs close observation to monitor any changes that would lead one to believe a severe injury has occurred.

You cannot force a person to get treatment. But if they do refuse treatment, they sign a waiver. Like I did when I fell when skiing. Went to the hospital, decided I wanted to go home. Stayed over at a friends place and boy, she watched me like a hawk and then some. But I was fortunate that I did not have a brain injury. But if I did, the outcome could have been the same.

So again, wear a helmet. Set an example for your kids. Wear a helmet.......when doing ANY activity where brain injury may occur.

BTW, who would expect a "fatal" head injury during a lesson and on a "bunny hill". Obviously the staff at the resort thought to err on the side of caution when NR hit her head and call an ambulance. But again, if you are just " a bit shaken" and show no symptoms of a head injury, you may just want to go back to your hotel room and relax. Only after the bleed progresses, does one "then" feel very poorly and seek medical attention.

As I understand it, NR was "stabilized" at the small hospital for transport to Montreal. I don't think any one person is to blame for this. It was an accident and the majority of head injuries do not end up in bleeding in the brain.

In my city, a 16 year old, had a head injury. He was seen by medical staff right after the incident. He was "normal" for 10 days. No one knew that he had a "slow" bleed into his brain and died 10 days later. It was only after he showed symptoms was he rushed to the hospital where he died 10 days after the fall.

 

[JBean]

This is a tragic accident. Everything is crystal clear with hindsight. My gf's son that died of this did get medical care within the hour, but it was no help. The problem I see is that there is no real indication of the severity until it is too late.
I have gone over my handlebars, sprained my neck, separated my shoulder,herniated cervical disks,face planted on my snowboard and bike, head planted on my snowboard and bike, all with and without my helmet.
Each time I banged my head, I did not go for emergency care, because I could talk and move my legs so I figured I was fine.



This was a freaky tragedy.


With that said, I do find it alarming that there is no nearby trauma center.

 

[Malapoo]

I just finished a book written by a brain specialist who had a stroke. She explained that cells are killed by blood almost immediately and depending what part of the brain, it can vastly affect your judgement and thinking. Her own stroke delayed her realization that she was indeed having a stroke, and then it became incredibly difficult for her to figure out what to do - call ambulance. Then she had to sit and stare at the phone to process making a phone call and by the time she could dial a number (her work she couldn't think to call 911 or look up any numbers) her speech was mostly gone by that point.

First and foremost, ski places should insist on helments especially for beginners, but for their own protection all skiers. Secondly, ANYONE who may have hit their head should have to see a licensed physician immediately. The person's judgement can be impaired even with a concussion. The doctor (in the book) wrote that she started with a headache but then quickly felt very detached from her body and at peace with life. Said it was a very good feeling and while part of her was aware this is not normal, it was such a peaceful floating sensation it distracted her from being concerned about the abnormality of what she was feeling.

 

[CyberLaw]

In perfect world, in a a perfect place, every small town in the USA and Canada would have a Level 1, 2 Trauma Center. But again, in a small little resort town and the little towns around it, since there is only a population of 10K at most, they have a "regular" community hospital.

The major cities(like Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver) with a population of 3 million plus do have trauma centers in "select" major hospitals. In Toronto we have two(2) hospitals which are deemed trauma centers.

Heck in Barrie, which is a fair size, with skiing nearby, again, the size of the town does not warrant a "trauma" center. A severe injury would require transportation to Toronto to Sunnybrook Hospital, which is a Level 1 trauma center with training, staff and equipment to treat "acute" traumas.

Ontario and Quebec are "vast" in size with many, many small towns. You cannot expect the same services and hospitals in small towns as in major cities.

But I do take exception that a helicopter was not available. Quebec should learn from this. But they are not going to get helicopters, even despite what happened to NR.

 

[Marthatex]

I just finished a book written by a brain specialist who had a stroke. She explained that cells are killed by blood almost immediately and depending what part of the brain, it can vastly affect your judgement and thinking. Her own stroke delayed her realization that she was indeed having a stroke, and then it became incredibly difficult for her to figure out what to do - call ambulance. Then she had to sit and stare at the phone to process making a phone call and by the time she could dial a number (her work she couldn't think to call 911 or look up any numbers) her speech was mostly gone by that point.

First and foremost, ski places should insist on helments especially for beginners, but for their own protection all skiers. Secondly, ANYONE who may have hit their head should have to see a licensed physician immediately. The person's judgement can be impaired even with a concussion. The doctor (in the book) wrote that she started with a headache but then quickly felt very detached from her body and at peace with life. Said it was a very good feeling and while part of her was aware this is not normal, it was such a peaceful floating sensation it distracted her from being concerned about the abnormality of what she was feeling.

But the symptoms of "talk and die" would not be seen immediately, even to a physician. This is not the same as a stroke, which might be a blockage with systems of numbness in other areas of the body.

Basically, she broke a blood vessel or artery that bled out silently around the brain, eventually causing tremendous pressure and then causing lethal damage quickly.

As I see it she needed to get from point A to point B very quickly once the serious symptoms occurred. That wasn't possible, due to location and lack of helicopter service. Or, it could have been bad judgment not to take her directly to the trauma hospital.

Also, she refused treatment/CT scan early on, which could have saved her; was CT scan available at the first hospital?

I'm sure there will be alot of discussion of this case in the days to come.

 

[JBean]

I just finished a book written by a brain specialist who had a stroke. She explained that cells are killed by blood almost immediately and depending what part of the brain, it can vastly affect your judgement and thinking. Her own stroke delayed her realization that she was indeed having a stroke, and then it became incredibly difficult for her to figure out what to do - call ambulance. Then she had to sit and stare at the phone to process making a phone call and by the time she could dial a number (her work she couldn't think to call 911 or look up any numbers) her speech was mostly gone by that point.

First and foremost, ski places should insist on helments especially for beginners, but for their own protection all skiers. Secondly, ANYONE who may have hit their head should have to see a licensed physician immediately. The person's judgement can be impaired even with a concussion. The doctor (in the book) wrote that she started with a headache but then quickly felt very detached from her body and at peace with life. Said it was a very good feeling and while part of her was aware this is not normal, it was such a peaceful floating sensation it distracted her from being concerned about the abnormality of what she was feeling.

Then you get into the whole issue of invasion of personal freedoms like wearing seatbelts in cars and helmets on bikes and motorcycles. many people just don't feel that others have a right to tell them what care they should and shouldn't take. it is a highly debatable topic. While for me it makes sense to wear a helmet on the slopes or on a motorcycle, there are those that feel very strongly that it is their choice to make and no one else's.
Right now, i can't see any ski resorts insisting on mandatory helmets because it would keep many people from using their resort. I think they would only do that if it were actually a law and then we get into legislating behavior.
It is a slippery slope, no pun intended.

 

[Marthatex]

Then you get into the whole issue of invasion of personal freedoms like wearing seatbelts in cars and helmets on bikes and motorcycles. many people just don't feel that others have a right to tell them what care they should and shouldn't take. it is a highly debatable topic. While for me it makes sense to wear a helmet on the slopes or on a motorcycle, there are those that feel very strongly that it is their choice to make and no one else's.
Right now, i can't see any ski resorts insisting on mandatory helmets because it would keep many people from using their resort. I think they would only do that if it were actually a law and then we get into legislating behavior.
It is a slippery slope, no pun intended.

If you're on someone's private property, and they might be liable if you're hurt, I would think they have the right to request helmet wearing.

Whether that would hurt their business, I don't know. I think it's kind of like seat belts, once you get used to them they become a habit. We don't even think twice about football players having helmets.

I would think helmets themselves could cause some damage also, when one skiier plows into another. Football players are carefully trained to use their bodies and heads, so to speak, to not harm other players.

I've been the recipient of some very large bruises due to out-of-control skiiers, but a helmet wouldn't have helped me take a blow to the side of my body.

There are lots, I'm sure thousands, of ski accidents every year, usually broken limbs; no way to prevent them all. Orthopedic docs do seem more available in those areas. The idea that swishing down a snowy or icy mountain slope, with dozens of other skiers and big trees all around, is not risky, would be a delusion.

 

[JBean]

If you're on someone's private property, and they might be liable if you're hurt, I would think they have the right to request helmet wearing.

Whether that would hurt their business, I don't know. I think it's kind of like seat belts, once you get used to them they become a habit. We don't even think twice about football players having helmets.

I would think helmets themselves could cause some damage also, when one skiier plows into another. Football players are carefully trained to use their bodies and heads, so to speak, to not harm other players.

I've been the recipient of some very large bruises due to out-of-control skiiers, but a helmet wouldn't have helped me take a blow to the side of my body.

There are lots, I'm sure thousands, of ski accidents every year, usually broken limbs; no way to prevent them all. Orthopedic docs do seem more available in those areas. The idea that swishing down a snowy or icy mountain slope, with dozens of other skiers and big trees all around, is not risky, would be a delusion.

Oh I agree that that resorts would have the right, I just think they won't do it. Like having non-smoking bars before it was law. Most bar owners didn't want to cut their own business by excluding any group of drinkers. Most ski resorts wouldn't want to eliminate all the skiers and riders that refuse to wear helmets.
There is no way around ski accidents. If what NR went through was common place at ski areas, it wouldn't have been missed. It is not something you see every day and when my friends son died, the doctor just said it was a perfect little storm that hit all the right places. Probably couldn't do it again if ya tried.

The whole thing is awful and sad and it is is a risk associated with any sport of this kind. My dh and I go around about my extreme bike riding all the time. He doesn;t think I should be taking those risks. While I agree with him to a point..I can't help it :innocent:

 

[texaslb218]

I watch Women's March Madness every year. Just yesterday, one of the girl's fall backwards on her rear and then slammed the back of her head on the court. I wouldn't have thought much about it in years before, but this time I wondered if they would take her to a hospital for a precautionary check. She was back on the court in a few minutes. I worried.

 

[CyberLaw]

A nurse friend of the family "told" us that any head injury requires medical attention, if not you are taking chances.

How many times has our kids hit their heads, brushed it off and kept on going. Heck, how many times has that happened to me also.

But now, the lesson learned from this "horrible" accident, is that you never, ever take head injuries for granted.

Hopefully others will get the message as well.........

 

[southcitymom]

A nurse friend of the family "told" us that any head injury requires medical attention, if not you are taking chances.

How many times has our kids hit their heads, brushed it off and kept on going. Heck, how many times has that happened to me also.

But now, the lesson learned from this "horrible" accident, is that you never, ever take head injuries for granted.

Hopefully others will get the message as well.........

I have to say that, in all honesty, I doubt I will treat knocks on the noggin any differently now than I did prior to Natasha's terrible accident. That's a judgment call, of course - I don't know the details of how Natasha hit her head, so I've no idea what I would have done in that case.

Just last week, my youngest son fell off the trampoline (we have a net, but it wasn't zipped up and he fell through that) and hit the ground and knocked his head. I did the Mommy triage and pronounced him okay. I did not think he needed to be taken for medical attention. If he had lost consciousness or if he had other symptoms, I would have - that's my standard of care.

I'm not trying to be flippant here, but I just can't imagine that we are supposed to run to the hospital every time we smack our heads - is that really what your nurse friend was saying?

 

[Carla Lashelle]

A noted neuro surgeon was on tv after this accident and said a helmet might not have done any good. He said they are good for preventing cuts and abrasions from direct contact of the head and the ground, tree etc, but they dont do a lot when it comes to shock injuries. The shock just goes through the styrofoam into your head.

 

[JBean]

A noted neuro surgeon was on tv after this accident and said a helmet might not have done any good. He said they are good for preventing cuts and abrasions from direct contact of the head and the ground, tree etc, but they dont do a lot when it comes to shock injuries. The shock just goes through the styrofoam into your head.

I heard another doctor say something similar.