Actress Natasha Richardson UPDATE has passed away after skiing accident

[Marthatex]

I hear you Marthatex, but it's up to the patient. I think what happened to her is rare, but it does happen. Obviously, she took a tumble, but if she felt fine, she felt fine. If I took my sons to get a head scan every time they knocked their noggins, I'd be in the ER a few times a month.

I just feel like the only way she could have been helped is if she had felt badly right after or had some immediate symptoms that warranted further investigation. But from what I've read, in these type of cases, when the symptoms start to occur, it's almost always too late. That's one of the reasons they call it "talking and dying."

Really sad. This just serves as another reminder to me of how I go along taking life for granted. How fragile life really is; we must try to enjoy and appreciate every minute of it!

 

[SuziQ]

I'm still puzzled about the resort's first statements downplaying the incident and not disclosing correct amount of time between ambulance visits. I understand she may not have been saved and it's said she refused treatment. Was she made aware how dangerous her decision could be? And why doesn't the closest hospital to a ski resort have the availability to treat head injuries? None of this may have made a difference for Natasha, but you can bet these factors would make me think twice about skiing there.

The sad truth is, sometimes the people in charge of making emergency decisions do not make the correct ones. And it's it's asking questions in cases like this that can make things better for others.

My late husband was a racecar driver. He had a wreck that almost amputated his leg. Lifeflight was called out by the track because of the serious injury and the distance away from a trauma center. We waited and waited and half an hour later no lifeflight. Ten minutes later an ambulance pulls up. My husband made it to the emergency room an hour after his accident. What we found out was an off duty cop working security at the track took it upon himself to determine my husband's injury was not that bad and cancelled lifeflight. When the surgeon heard about this he threw a fit and told me that the only reason my husband didn't bleed to death was because a muscle had spasmed and clamped down on a major artery that was cut through.

Things are not always black and white and questions absolutely need to be asked.

 

[bogeygal]

I'm still puzzled about the resort's first statements downplaying the incident and not disclosing correct amount of time between ambulance visits. I understand she may not have been saved and it's said she refused treatment. Was she made aware how dangerous her decision could be? And why doesn't the closest hospital to a ski resort have the availability to treat head injuries? None of this may have made a difference for Natasha, but you can bet these factors would make me think twice about skiing there.

The sad truth is, sometimes the people in charge of making emergency decisions do not make the correct ones. And it's it's asking questions in cases like this that can make things better for others.

My late husband was a racecar driver. He had a wreck that almost amputated his leg. Lifeflight was called out by the track because of the serious injury and the distance away from a trauma center. We waited and waited and half an hour later no lifeflight. Ten minutes later an ambulance pulls up. My husband made it to the emergency room an hour after his accident. What we found out was an off duty cop working security at the track took it upon himself to determine my husband's injury was not that bad and cancelled lifeflight. When the surgeon heard about this he threw a fit and told me that the only reason my husband didn't bleed to death was because a muscle had spasmed and clamped down on a major artery that was cut through.

Things are not always black and white and questions absolutely need to be asked.

First off, I'm so sorry that you and your husband had to go through such a frightening thing. I agree not everything is asked by most of medical experience or what we believe is qualified emergency assistance in such a situation. We put our trust in them and expect them to be the experts. Same thing can happen as it did in my family when a family member was misdiagnosed. After changing doctor's, it was not what it was first believed!

The spokesperson (woman) from the ski lodge was very quick to protect the resort. We don't really know what happened or how long it took after Natasha told them she had a headache before she was transported to the hospital.

 

[CyberLaw]

There is a bone(just above the ear) which apparently is soft and has a lot of arteries running through it.

You don't need a "huge" whack on the head to injure the head area. Again it is up to the patient to consent to treatment. Even if the paramedics say: You may have a head injury, we would like to take you to the hospital for a CT scan, why would you.

You feel fine, are walking and talking and just want to "be comfortable" in your hotel room. Only then, an hour later do you start to feel badly and seek medical attention.

Again, why would anyone seek medical attention if they feel well and did not lose consciousness, or have an "obvious" bleeding of the head externally.

No one could have forced NR to seek medical help......until she felt she needed it.

 

[PattyCake]

Gosh, just watching Inside Edition and they had a bunch of clips of the memorial on Broadway that included Liam & sons. I'm just heart broken for them and the unknown families that this happens to, so young, so sudden with no time to even say goodbye.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

This is an article quoting Montreal's top head trauma doctor, stating that Quebec province does not have medical helicopter service and how Quebec province is not set up for trauma even as well as some other provinces in Canada. The doctor also says the 2 1/2 hour drive from Mt. Tremblant to Montreal may have contributed to Ms. Richardson's demise.
http://www.comcast.net/articles/entertainment/20090320/Natasha.Richardson/
My daughter's accident took place at the Whistler resort in British Columbia, about a 1 1/2 hour drive from Vancouver. There was no helicopter transport available there either at the time. So transport from Hospital #1 to Hospital #2 was by ambulance, at night, on a dark and winding road. I don't know what the current situation is in British Columbia regarding helicopter transport for trauma cases.

But I stand by my earlier statement that I do not recommend to my family or friends - or anyone for that mattter - that they ski in Canada. I am not making any kind of a political statement about the Canadian healthcare system. I am just saying that their system is not OUR system.

During the two weeks I spent in Vancouver (until she was out of ICU and I could get my daughter back into the USA) I met many friendly and gracious Canadians - to the extent that one lovely family "adopted" me, taking me into their home for dinner because I was there all by myself.

I did not hear anything at all about any Americans coming to Canada for health care. In fact, I was told the exact opposite - that those who have the means often go to the US for health care. Due to things like there being a 6 month wait to have an MRI, for example. (Again, I do not know if the wait for imaging studies is as long now as it was then.)

IMO the other mistake that was made in this situation is the ambulance personnel not being allowed access to the patient. One article quoted an ambulance attendant as saying they got close enough to see Ms. Richardson sitting on a stretcher!

Trained medical personnel are experienced at dealing with patients who are in denial about the specific situation. I have personally experienced patients who "did not want to go to the hospital" who changed their mind about that after EMTs and paramedics arrived on scene, examined them and talked to them. So, IMO that was a BIG MISTAKE.

People can say this was just a tragic accident, and it was. But "accident investigation" takes place for a reason - to examine what could have been done differently in order to change future behaviors.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I hear you Marthatex, but it's up to the patient. I think what happened to her is rare, but it does happen. Obviously, she took a tumble, but if she felt fine, she felt fine. If I took my sons to get a head scan every time they knocked their noggins, I'd be in the ER a few times a month.

I just feel like the only way she could have been helped is if she had felt badly right after or had some immediate symptoms that warranted further investigation. But from what I've read, in these type of cases, when the symptoms start to occur, it's almost always too late. That's one of the reasons they call it "talking and dying."

its not that rare my mother died frome xactly the same thing a few weeks ago. She fell, struck her head, 911 was called, she was examined but looked and felt fine and refused treatmement. I probably would have done the same thing, as would most of us. Its easy to say well if she went to the doctor... but I bet 99.9% of people who fall and feel ok afterwards don't do it.

I can think of several other instances from the local news that came back into my head after my moms passing and NR's accident. We had a purse snatcher grab a ladys bag and pull her to the ground... she struck her head on the parking lot curb and even though 911 was called right away, she died before they got her to the hospital. And that wasn't a huge fall (5 feet from head to ground) and not at high speed (like skiiing into a tree).

If you watch shows like Dr. G Medical Examiner or Trauma they have all kinds of bleeding and swelling in the brain cases. They are really difficult to diagnose and treat.

Im not sure in NR's case if you could really do a lot although some contradictory facts bother me. I have read different accounts of what happened following her accident. So I wonder who declined treatment. I have read that she was walking around and talking after the fall and that paramedics checked her out and she seemed ok. I have also read that she was looking hurt and ill laying on a gurney and Paramedics were turned away and not allowed to check her out at all... so who made that choice?

I live in Florida so we dont ski slopes with medivac helicopters, but all the local hospitals I can think of in town have their own choppers. There also seems to be an area helicopter service that covers a couple counties in this part of the state.

You can survive head trauma... I did. Although I was actually "lucky" in that the severity of my injuries actually saved me. My skull and facial bones were so badly broken they could expand and move a bit with the swelling and bleeding. I did have a helicopter either (not that I remember anything) but I went to the ER the old fashioned way in the back of an ambulance.

 

[Penelope]

IMO the other mistake that was made in this situation is the ambulance personnel not being allowed access to the patient. One article quoted an ambulance attendant as saying they got close enough to see Ms. Richardson sitting on a stretcher!

Trained medical personnel are experienced at dealing with patients who are in denial about the specific situation. I have personally experienced patients who "did not want to go to the hospital" who changed their mind about that after EMTs and paramedics arrived on scene, examined them and talked to them. So, IMO that was a BIG MISTAKE.

People can say this was just a tragic accident, and it was. But "accident investigation" takes place for a reason - to examine what could have been done differently in order to change future behaviors.

I have been living in Canada for almost 9 years and have experienced the highs and lows of the Canadian Healthcare system firsthand during my husband's illness.

I agree that the scenario with Richardson might have been different had the trained medical personnel called to the ski resort the first time been able to talk to her. But, even if they had left right away and drove directly to Montreal, there is no guarantee that she would have survived the injury.

In my years living in Canada, I have observed that the large hospitals in the major cities have the latest high tech equipment. The satelite hospitals and clinics in smaller cities and towns have the basics. Critically injured patients are transported to the big cities. If you live up North in a small city, town or Native Reserve, you are transported by plane; anywhere else, it is by ambulance (at least in my experience).

As I stated in a previous post, when my husband was in respiratory failure, he was driven by ambulance (on icy roads) to the hospital - a 1 1/2 hour journey. Once there, they put him on a respirator right away (the small hospital near the town where I lived did not have a pulmonary specialist or a respirator) and transferred him to an ICU. The ICU was as high tech as anything you would find in the states. He was hospitalized for almost 3 weeks and then sent home -- and the government paid for all of it. Six months later, the same thing occured and he was brought by ambulance to the same hospital and put in the same ICU. This time, his lungs were failing and my husband made the decision to come off the respirator and died 2 days later. His care was excellent, though, and when he died I was not saddled with any enormous medical bills.

There are some negatives about the Canadian system, but once a patient is in one of the large hospitals, the care is usually very good-- and if it is an emergency system, doctors can get them into x-ray or an MRI right away -- I had that happen with my husband.

I do agree that you maybe should think twice about skiing in Canada -- and do get medical insurance, especially to cover medical emergency transportation costs. When I first moved to Canada and was not yet covered under Candadian Healthcare, I had an infection and needed a urinalysis. I had to pay $180 out of pocket just to have my urine checked! They really soak non citizens!

 

[Brwnigirl]

For what this is worth - my husband had a blood clot following surgery 12 yrs ago. (He was 51 yrs old). The blood clot caused his brain to swell and he was placed on life support. The doctors & nurses fought valiantly to reverse the swelling but it failed to work. After 24 hrs in ICU we were advised to remove life support. We sat vigil with him until he took his final breath 30 hrs later. His heart was strong so it takes as long as it takes. I was so fortunate to be surrounded by the people my husband & I loved very much. News media needs to BACK OFF and give them the privacy they need with loved ones. My heart breaks for all of them.

I am sorry for your loss and my heart goes out to you.

 

[SuziQ]

There is a bone(just above the ear) which apparently is soft and has a lot of arteries running through it.

You don't need a "huge" whack on the head to injure the head area. Again it is up to the patient to consent to treatment. Even if the paramedics say: You may have a head injury, we would like to take you to the hospital for a CT scan, why would you.

You feel fine, are walking and talking and just want to "be comfortable" in your hotel room. Only then, an hour later do you start to feel badly and seek medical attention.

Again, why would anyone seek medical attention if they feel well and did not lose consciousness, or have an "obvious" bleeding of the head externally.

No one could have forced NR to seek medical help......until she felt she needed it.

The thing is, it appears the paramedics weren't allowed access to her and she was in worse shape than the resort said she was. WHO made that decision? An injured person is not equipped to do so. She must have created some type of concern because her ski instructor stayed with her. Like another pointed out, paramedics are experienced in dealing with people who don't want to go to the hospital. If they were allowed to at least talk to her, they may have been able to tell her how dangerous not going was. Too many conflicting stories about what happened. I just want to know that NR and others are given the best chance of surviving possible, even if their injuries are fatal from the get go.

 

[Brwnigirl]

I agree that the only true chance she might have had to be saved would have been to get to a hospital for a CT scan right away. But why would you do that if you felt okay? I wouldn't.

I probably would have done the same thing...but now I will think twice.

 

[southcitymom]

Really sad. This just serves as another reminder to me of how I go along taking life for granted. How fragile life really is; we must try to enjoy and appreciate every minute of it!

It is just heartbreaking - especially when someone is in the prime of their life like this.

 

[Anniegirl]

You know they are reporting here that she just wasn't feeling well after her fall and there was no visible trauma. I have a friend whose little 5 yo boy died this way. He fell and hit his head. There was a small bruise but nothing significant AT ALL. She gave him some boo-boo kisses and sent him on his way. Shortly after, he soiled himself and fell into a deep coma and ultimately died.
The doctors said he just hit his head exactly right and all the swelling and damage went inward as opposed to outward which was his demise.
Sounds like the same thing.
Terrible

My seven year old cousin died almost same way...we were playing chase and hide go seek---short of it--she was hiding behind car in street when i 'found her' she jump up and ran into street where a car driving slow look for an address struck her.. she hit the ground , got up and was talking..etc. her mom came out , crowd gathered ...ambulance was called..she didnt want to go to hospital she was afraid of needles... she was talking, sitting up in ambulance and I really thought she was ok..and thought "wow she gets to ride in ambulance" --- we went back into their apartment when a hour later they called and said she lost conciousness and was being taken in for surgery to relieve swelling on brain..she died during surgery...
I was 6 years old at the time and was my first experience with lost and espcially a little child ..is something i can still see clear , remember in my mind.


Brain injuries are tricky.


RIP Natasha Richardson what abeauty she was..and the word is she was so nice to everyone even doorman at buildings around her.. they said she would always stop and say , Hi to them and ask about their families.

 

[CyberLaw]

For starters, the resort is dealing with a "high profile" celebrity, if the high profile celebrity refuses medical care, then in all cases who is to second guess him/her.

What might have saved her is a helmet. A helicopter also. But again 20/20 hindsight is great after the fact.

BTW, we are terrified to go to the states. We have insurance up to the hilt when we do, but unfortunately, it does not cover everything.

I don't want to return from the states and receive a bill for 15K for 3 days hospital stay.

The reason "non citizens" are not covered by our medical system, is because the "taxpayers of Canada" fully pay for the health care system.

The tax payers are "rather" critical of a system that does not meet their medical needs.

In my province, we have telehealth (manned by trained nurses 24/7/365) if you have questions about a "accute" medical condition. We have walk-in clinics, urgent care centers and of course hospitals.

It is up to the province to invest the $$$ needed into the health care system. In my province we do have helicopters and the hospitals have helipads.

So IF NR was seen immediately, IF here was a helicopter to take her to the trauma center in Montreal, IF..........

I am not going to get into a discussion about medical care, but one note: No one except me and my Doctor will ever decide what medical care I require. No one is going to second guess him. No one is "going" to have to "fight" with an insurance company so they "cover" my treatment and no one is ever going to weigh the "bottom" line against my health.

I asked for a chest x-ray, a heart test and blood test. They were done at the "medical center" where my Doctor is located. It turns out that I had a B12 deficiency which caused my problems breathing and the heart problems.

But my request was not turned down, nor will it ever be.

Each province runs their own health care system.......

Now you go to France and their health care system is "teriffic"

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Snipped for content

BTW, we are terrified to go to the states. We have insurance up to the hilt when we do, but unfortunately, it does not cover everything.

I don't want to return from the states and receive a bill for 15K for 3 days hospital stay.

The reason "non citizens" are not covered by our medical system, is because the "taxpayers of Canada" fully pay for the health care system.

The tax payers are "rather" critical of a system that does not meet their medical needs.

In my province, we have telehealth (manned by trained nurses 24/7/365) if you have questions about a "accute" medical condition. We have walk-in clinics, urgent care centers and of course hospitals.

It is up to the province to invest the $$$ needed into the health care system. In my province we do have helicopters and the hospitals have helipads.

So IF NR was seen immediately, IF here was a helicopter to take her to the trauma center in Montreal, IF..........

I am not going to get into a discussion about medical care, but one note: No one except me and my Doctor will ever decide what medical care I require. No one is going to second guess him. No one is "going" to have to "fight" with an insurance company so they "cover" my treatment and no one is ever going to weigh the "bottom" line against my health.

I asked for a chest x-ray, a heart test and blood test. They were done at the "medical center" where my Doctor is located. It turns out that I had a B12 deficiency which caused my problems breathing and the heart problems.

But my request was not turned down, nor will it ever be.

Each province runs their own health care system.......

Now you go to France and their health care system is "teriffic"

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I couldn't agree with you more. By default here in the states, the insurance companies deny this that and every claim. I don't want to get into a big debate about where is better, because everyone has their opinion. I grew up on the US side of the border, not far from Toronto and my father received all his treatment there for severe diabetes complications because they WERE more advanced. I also still carry insurance for myself and my daughter in the EU and I won't even go into which one is easier to deal with, more caring and more advanced.

Let me put it this way, we are one of the richest countries in the world and how many people have no health insurance???? Where our tax dollars bail out the criminals at AIG, other countries tax dollars pay for what every citizen needs. Just my opinion.

 

[Gracenote]

I'm still puzzled about the resort's first statements downplaying the incident and not disclosing correct amount of time between ambulance visits. I understand she may not have been saved and it's said she refused treatment. Was she made aware how dangerous her decision could be? And why doesn't the closest hospital to a ski resort have the availability to treat head injuries? None of this may have made a difference for Natasha, but you can bet these factors would make me think twice about skiing there.

The sad truth is, sometimes the people in charge of making emergency decisions do not make the correct ones. And it's it's asking questions in cases like this that can make things better for others.

My late husband was a racecar driver. He had a wreck that almost amputated his leg. Lifeflight was called out by the track because of the serious injury and the distance away from a trauma center. We waited and waited and half an hour later no lifeflight. Ten minutes later an ambulance pulls up. My husband made it to the emergency room an hour after his accident. What we found out was an off duty cop working security at the track took it upon himself to determine my husband's injury was not that bad and cancelled lifeflight. When the surgeon heard about this he threw a fit and told me that the only reason my husband didn't bleed to death was because a muscle had spasmed and clamped down on a major artery that was cut through.

Things are not always black and white and questions absolutely need to be asked.

(My bold above) Good point! You would think that head injuries and broken bones would be the #1 focus for a medical center near a ski resort. Also, they should invest in a helicopter. I am spoiled. All our hospitals here have medivac choppers. Shoot, our tv stations and radio stations all have choppers. I was coming home from a trip recently on I-20, one of the parts of it in the middle of nowhere and there was a bad wreck. Very soon, here comes the helicopter, scooping up the injured and flying them to the hospital.

Terrible what happened to your husband!

 

[Penelope]

Don't get me wrong -- as an American citizen living in Canada as a landed immigrant-- I prefer the Canadian Healthcare system. Sure, the taxes here are higher, but you don't have to pay for health insurance unless you want to. I choose to pay for a supplemental insurance plan that provides extras above and beyond what every Canadian gets-- and the cost is only $70 per month. It provides a semi-private room, discount on prescriptions, discounts on dental care, etc.

The biggest benefit -- as I stated before -- is that there is no deductible on hospital costs. When I add up what I would have had to pay out of pocket for my husband's numerous emergency room visits, hospital stays, home oxygen, prescriptions (including a total of about 30 days in the ICU), and in the states it would have been well over $30,000. At least my husband passed away knowing that his healthcare was covered and I would not go bankrupt paying off the bills.

Also, one of the most important things my husband had was me -- acting as an advocate and making sure he did receive tests in a timely manner and was given the latest medications. But you have to do that within any Healthcare System in any country. And many times my husband was having a hard time breathing but did not want to go to the emergency room -- and I encouraged him to go and took him there -- and it was determined that he had an infection. Sometimes people who are sick and injured need someone there to encourage them to get care.

 

[SuziQ]

So IF NR was seen immediately, IF here was a helicopter to take her to the trauma center in Montreal, IF..........

Whatever comes in the future won't change NR's outcome. But it can change things for the better and save someone else. It's asking the questions about the IF IF IF that improves a possibly flawed system and helps others in the future. We can't look at someone and say "It doesn't matter if she got bad advice and care because she couldn't have been saved anyways". I was personally involved in a case where the court agreed with me that it did not matter whether a person could be saved or not, the attempt to do so is expected and demanded. Bad care and negligent actions are exactly that no matter if the patient ends up dying or not.

 

[CyberLaw]

For starters, the "village" where this "community hospital" is located is a "small village. It may have about 10K people. This hospital serves the small towns around it.

It is not a major place, not a major town, it is equipped for standard visits.

If you have ever been to Quebec, the small historic villages are in the tourists area.

Just like a small town hospital is not equipped to deal with accute emergencies. People are transported to "major" cities like Toronto and or Montreal.

Just like kids that need specialized care are transferred from their small hospital to a major city of 3 million people and a hospital(Sick Kids) that only deals with children as patients.

So again, when this hospital realized the extent of NR injuriess and that they did not have the equipment or Doctors to care for her, she was transferred to Montreal.

There is a helicopter service in Quebec. It is my subscription only at about 3K an hour. But unfortunately the service would not have been available to non subscribers. Plus a hospital has to have the facilities to land a helicopter.

So again, please don't blame the small community hospital, they can only work with what they have. People want to keep the "small village" feel.

Even "big block" stores are "outside" the city so the quaint historic "feel" and view of the village remains intact. This is the "tourist" draw to the area.

BTW, more people in the USA "skip" doctors visits that are deemed necessary because of the cost, then people in Canada or Britain.

Our health care might not be the best on the planet, but no one is turned away from health care, no one has to sell assets to pay for their health care, or hold benefits, or charity drives to pay for an operation or treatment. Nor would they have to cash in their 401K or sell their house or "have their credit ruined because of health care bills. Or be turned down for insurance because they are "deemed" a risk.

I guess I am spoiled, as when our oldest was born he was in the hospital in NICU for 6 weeks after his birth and a week at Sick Kids. If I were to add up the costs, of the test, x-rays, many doctor vists, meds, I would say that it would have cost easily 100K.

Our son got great care and is a healthy teenager.

I do feel that either there will be a coroners inquest or "some sort" of investigation so the response to this type of injury and circumstances can be improved and recommendations made. My heart again goes out to NR family.

 

[harleysnana]

There is a helicopter service in Quebec. It is my subscription only at about 3K an hour. But unfortunately the service would not have been available to non subscribers. Plus a hospital has to have the facilities to land a helicopter.

Our health care might not be the best on the planet, but no one is turned away from health care, no one has to sell assets to pay for their health care, or hold benefits, or charity drives to pay for an operation or treatment.

Snip for space.
Bold by me... does these two points make sense?
Or am I miss understanding it?

Where I live if you need to be flown by life flight they don't do it based on
if you have insurance coverage they just do it!

I"m not saying our health care is better but I would rather pay more in the
end to know that I, or my loved one at least had a chance to survive by
being flown to the hospital rather than driven!

Do they really determine this by who has coverage for this service and who
does not?