AK - Samantha Koenig, 18, Anchorage, 1 Feb 2012 - #5

[gliving]

Could be IK did not have actual cards but lists with names and credit info. If that info is being taken from a business and passed on to someone else, it would make sense to do the actual thefts far from the scene of the crime.

This is the way I've been thinking. Somehow Keyes has shown Samantha how to put one of those credit card skimmer thingies on the credit card machine at the coffee place. Keyes gets credit card numbers to sell on the black market and she get some extra cash for her part. Plus the fact Samantha has opportunity to see customer's pin numbers. But these schemes only work for a short time until it's traced back to the source.

So the plan runs it's course and it's time to end operations. Keyes takes a planned visit to Texas. Samantha takes her money and goes some place where it's warmer than Anchorage in February! Most Alaskan teenagers would jump at that chance. She has a chance to escape her home life as I don't think it was all roses as her dad portrays. The only connection with these two is the scheme, but it's all LE has to go on at this time. But LE says they have evidence of a kidnapping, so that part confuses me.

I don't think the credit card fraud charge is because he used her credit card. For one thing, two days prior she's begging for gas money.

Please don't feel I'm bashing the victim here by saying she could have done this. Samantha has been known to be "resourceful" when it comes to money making opportunities and at least it's not drug running.

I'm just not feeling a sexual motive here. Anyone else doubt a sexual/stalker motive?

 

[joslmaman]

Interesting comment on the ADN board yesterday about JK's father being on vacation in the lower 48 since January. And related theories..

http://www.adn.com/2012/03/16/2375387/man-arrested-in-koenig-case-awaits.html

IMHO, this was set up. IK was paid to bring Sam down to her grandfather's place in the lower 48, for whatever reason. I'm thinkin' it was done for the reward money (which JK seems to be spending at an alarming rate). It seems to explain why LE is keeping JK out of the loop on the investigation.. if HE'S the one being investigated! (or one of them)

oh man. Who knows if it's true or not...but wow.

 

[bdawk20]

This is the way I've been thinking. Somehow Keyes has shown Samantha how to put one of those credit card skimmer thingies on the credit card machine at the coffee place. Keyes gets credit card numbers to sell on the black market and she get some extra cash for her part. Plus the fact Samantha has opportunity to see customer's pin numbers. But these schemes only work for a short time until it's traced back to the source.

So the plan runs it's course and it's time to end operations. Keyes takes a planned visit to Texas. Samantha takes her money and goes some place where it's warmer than Anchorage in February! Most Alaskan teenagers would jump at that chance. She has a chance to escape her home life as I don't think it was all roses as her dad portrays. The only connection with these two is the scheme, but it's all LE has to go on at this time. But LE says they have evidence of a kidnapping, so that part confuses me.

I don't think the credit card fraud charge is because he used her credit card. For one thing, two days prior she's begging for gas money.

Please don't feel I'm bashing the victim here by saying she could have done this. Samantha has been known to be "resourceful" when it comes to money making opportunities and at least it's not drug running.

I'm just not feeling a sexual motive here. Anyone else doubt a sexual/stalker motive?

Me! I doubt this was sexually motivated and that IK was stalking her to the point that I would be STUNNED if that turned out to be the case.

 

[ynotdivein]

Wow! You sleuths have been super-busy today!

Just a couple of gentle reminders:

1. At this time, it's not ok to sleuth IK's family members.

2. As you are testing out theories, remember to use your IMOs and JMOs and :cow: s wherever appropriate.

3. WS doesn't approve of copying & pasting text or pix from other websites or social media sites. It's ok to provide a link (if it doesn't come up *****), and explain to your fellow posters how to find the information that you thought was pertinent.

4. "Will the real IK please stand up?" As you are sleuthing IK, please verify that the information you've found relates to THIS IK, before you post it. Just because someone shares that name does not mean they are related to this case. It would be a total bummer to Google yourself or a relative, and find all kinds of personal information being dissected on a public message board in relation to a missing person case... That leads to the kind of phone calls that Tricia realllllllly doesn't like to get. And we realllllly like Tricia, and WS, and so this is a Very Important Rule.

(I know that identity fraud is part of some posters' theories of the case, but #4 still stands.)

Keep up the good work, and as always if you have any questions, contact a mod! :seeya:

 

[joslmaman]

If this abduction is due drug debt that was owed by Samantha, do you think they would accept money from others or is it more a punishment directly to the one who owes the debt? (Kind of as a too bad too sad type thing.)

If she owed drug money it would make sense why she had gotten a new job to try to make money. It would also make sense that she would have been stressed and worried about money- ie the brother saying she was crying needing "Gas money" two days before. What if that was just a cover up? Her knowing her time was running out on her deadline...

Does anyone know if it was ever stated in MSM that Sam was working alone the night she was abducted or did everyone just assume that was the case?:waitasec:

All of this is just IMO...

 

[GutFeeling!]

Thanks Ynot. These people make me bad sometimes - sorry

 

[SmoothOperator]

This is the way I've been thinking. Somehow Keyes has shown Samantha how to put one of those credit card skimmer thingies on the credit card machine at the coffee place. Keyes gets credit card numbers to sell on the black market and she get some extra cash for her part. Plus the fact Samantha has opportunity to see customer's pin numbers. But these schemes only work for a short time until it's traced back to the source.

So the plan runs it's course and it's time to end operations. Keyes takes a planned visit to Texas. Samantha takes her money and goes some place where it's warmer than Anchorage in February! Most Alaskan teenagers would jump at that chance. She has a chance to escape her home life as I don't think it was all roses as her dad portrays. The only connection with these two is the scheme, but it's all LE has to go on at this time. But LE says they have evidence of a kidnapping, so that part confuses me.

I don't think the credit card fraud charge is because he used her credit card. For one thing, two days prior she's begging for gas money.

Please don't feel I'm bashing the victim here by saying she could have done this. Samantha has been known to be "resourceful" when it comes to money making opportunities and at least it's not drug running.

I'm just not feeling a sexual motive here. Anyone else doubt a sexual/stalker motive?

But could this 18yr old chic really be that good?? As in to outsmart not just apd(I could possibly believe That) but to have outsmarted the FBI? Fooled them into believing that she was actually abducted, taken against her will and having carried on this nationwide charade for this long? We're talking like 45days at this point and this 18yr old chic has still managed to evade multiple state LE involvement along with the FBI? ..I find your theory to be plausible but for this length of time and her still evading is where I just can't see that?

This case is killing me:crazy:

 

[GutFeeling!]

If this abduction is due drug debt that was owed by Samantha, do you think they would accept money from others or is it more a punishment directly to the one who owes the debt? (Kind of as a too bad too sad type thing.)

If she owed drug money it would make sense why she had gotten a new job to try to make money. It would also make sense that she would have been stressed and worried about money- ie the brother saying she was crying needing "Gas money" two days before. What if that was just a cover up? Her knowing her time was running out on her deadline...

Does anyone know if it was ever stated in MSM that Sam was working alone the night she was abducted or did everyone just assume that was the case?:waitasec:

All of this is just IMO...

:moo: I didn't see it stated that she was alone but after this happened I read that the hut always has two people now (so I am assuming from that it was one at times). And I think if she was with someone they couldn't have been hid from the media.

I think people involved with drugs don't care where the money comes from, as long as they get it with interest.

I never thought of her actually having the debt. If she did the abductors would have been forced to contact someone to organize money though (not saying that isn't reasonable either)

 

[TxLady2]

Unless the investigating homicide detectives are really incompetent, they would check fingerprints or DNA of the deceased before closing the case. Just because the father said that is my son, that wouldn't be enough to confirm the identity. Or at least it shoudn't be.

I don't know about that. Family members make ID's of their loved ones all the time, and I don't believe I've heard of LE not taking their word on that, unless they have some reason to not believe or trust the family. Even if a suicide or murder victim's facial features are obliterated, parents, spouses, even children can ID someone by other characteristics like birthmarks, tattoos. I read somewhere not too long ago that someone ID'd their family member by his feet. Must have been something unusual about them. But everybody has something about them that is unique, I guess. Point is, I'm not sure FBI or local LE are going to go to the trouble or expense of running DNA tests on every John/Jane Doe. And not everybody has fingerprints on file somewhere.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

I don't know about that. Family members make ID's of their loved ones all the time, and I don't believe I've heard of LE not taking their word on that, unless they have some reason to not believe or trust the family. Even if a suicide or murder victim's facial features are obliterated, parents, spouses, even children can ID someone by other characteristics like birthmarks, tattoos. I read somewhere not too long ago that someone ID'd their family member by his feet. Must have been something unusual about them. But everybody has something about them that is unique, I guess. Point is, I'm not sure FBI or local LE are going to go to the trouble or expense of running DNA tests on every John/Jane Doe. And not everybody has fingerprints on file somewhere.

That was my thinking. Why would they need to do tests if a family member confirmed it was their loved one? I guess perhaps in a homicide case they would, but they believed the shooter then shot himself so there really was no investigation to do was there? I was surprised to see that both were born in January too.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Something I find interesting is that on an old yahoo hit for his (IK) business, he states 24 hour service. He's a 1 man shop. 24 hours? Really?

Makah Tribe is Indian. Is Israel Indian born? Partial blood? Full blood? If so, from which tribe? Do Indian tribes contract out instead of bulking up their tribe's funds by hiring within?

Though I do not know answers to your questions..The fact (?) that he buist log cabin at the age of 16 indicates he had developed outdoor skills, and even survival skills at an early age. This MAY indicate a past of living in Native American communities.
His sisters were building cabins, too.
These "facts" regarding log cabins came from the pics in his yahoo directory.
JMO, MOO

 

[SmoothOperator]

Just my opinion here of course but gliving in your asking if anyone else feels this case IS NOT sexually motivated it has me once again pondering on the sexual motive that I have kept as a viable option throughout this case.. I have felt stronger about the sexual motive at earlier points in the case.. that ill freely admit but in keeping an open mind to any/all possibilities I will say that in these last several days I have put the sexual motive on the back burner and taken a more serious look at several other motives or theories that you all have proposed.. including even the theory that my instincts had strongly indicated was NOT viable...the hoax/planned by Sam and Co....

I have in fact taken this thoery and ran with it in my mind of working the possibilities and avenues in which this could have taken place.. so many of you make a very good case for it as an actual viable theory and I can believe it and even see how some key pieces could even "fit" with this scenario.. but no matter what way I take it or what different avenue I attempt to work it through in theory I hit a dead end every single time with the duration for which this has lasted and the sheer amount of manpower regarding multiple different state LE.. most importantly FBI.. I just cannot fathom their being taken on such a roller coaster ride of nefarious, manipulated criminal activity for this long of a period of time.. 45 days and nights and still no sign of Samantha KOENIG.. could she really be alive and well and intentionally evading being located for this damn long??

 

[TxLady2]

I gotta say, this is pretty unlikely. Samantha Koenig's abduction has been all over the local news AND her fliers are everywhere here in town. There are billboards on major streets and I may not be exagerating when I say that maybe half of all businesses here have her flier up in a prominent place.

It is *possible* that IK could have missed all of this, but quite unlikely. The only way would be if he used the card very shortly after she dissapeared before her name and face were up all over town.

I don't think IK's involvement in this case is accidental.

You would be surprised at the missing cases that pop up all over the country, (and some of them turn into VERY high profile cases) that a lot of people never know about. Also many people glance at a missing poster and promptly forget about it a few minutes later. A lot of people, too, who just don't want to get involved, and if it's a teenager, they automatically think runaway. It may be well known in Anchorage, even all over Alaska, but other places..... not so much. I know you are saying that it's highly unlikely that HE didn't know about it, and I agree... I think he was involved in it, most likely.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Not to be rude, so please don't take this out of context, but he looks older than 34. Again - he is really who he says he is? Gosh I'm driving myself nuts trying to dig up info on him.

Like, is Israel his birth name, middle name but he uses it more? Ugggh...

Good questions..but wouldn't the military issue his award in his legal name? (And why was it spelled incorrectly on the award? Did we ever figure that out?)

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Good questions..but wouldn't the military issue his award in his legal name? (And why was it spelled incorrectly on the award? Did we ever figure that out?)

I must have missed that. How was it spelled on the award?

 

[gliving]

But could this 18yr old chic really be that good?? As in to outsmart not just apd(I could possibly believe That) but to have outsmarted the FBI? Fooled them into believing that she was actually abducted, taken against her will and having carried on this nationwide charade for this long? We're talking like 45days at this point and this 18yr old chic has still managed to evade multiple state LE involvement along with the FBI? ..I find your theory to be plausible but for this length of time and her still evading is where I just can't see that?

This case is killing me:crazy:

Good point SmoothOperator.

Still I read in some comments on another site, that her internet history was basically scrubbed. No facebook, no myspace, nothing. And all it would take is one fake ID to buy a plane ticket to someplace far away. I guess it depends on how bad she wanted to leave, if that is the case. Maybe I'm oversimplifying? How long do airports keep security tapes?

MOO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

As I am the age of IK and most my friends are .... he does look a lot older then 34. BUT that's not to say he hasn't just had a hard life, has grey'ed earlier then some of us, etc.

Working outdoors, in the elements (wind, sun, rain, snow, etc.), as construction workers do, tends to age people's skin.
But I don't know if this is the case with IK.
JMO MOO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Could he be Canadian born? It seems odd to me that he and family (besides who may be in Texas) are living and have lived very close to the Canadian borders.

Wow! Good point, Sleuth!
Maybe this is why we are all having so many problems getting background info.
Is it possible to get public records on Canadian citizens? I have never tried.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

IK has actually been portraying himself as much younger than 34. One of the news articles referred to a marathon he had run in 2006. So I went to a results site to look it up. In that race , he self-described as 25 yrs old. The other races he ran that year list him as 20 yrs old per info he would have given them when he signed up. If you run in a younger age group, it's harder to win an age group division award so NOBODY does that. UNLESS maybe he's trying to appeal to younger women.

Here's the link with the 2006 races:http://athlinks.com/searchbeta.aspx?term=israel+keyes (when the site opens, scroll down)

2006
North Olympic Discovery Marathon & Half Marathon 2006 25 WA 6/11
Sequim Run Off 10K/2 Mile 20 WA 5/06
Robin Hill Run 10K/5K 20 WA 4/08
Lincoln Park Run 20 WA 3/11

That IS bizarre...claiming a YOUNGER age, with younger athletes to compete against.

 

[z560]

Interesting comment on the ADN board yesterday about JK's father being on vacation in the lower 48 since January. And related theories..

http://www.adn.com/2012/03/16/2375387/man-arrested-in-koenig-case-awaits.html

IMHO, this was set up. IK was paid to bring Sam down to her grandfather's place in the lower 48, for whatever reason. I'm thinkin' it was done for the reward money (which JK seems to be spending at an alarming rate). It seems to explain why LE is keeping JK out of the loop on the investigation.. if HE'S the one being investigated! (or one of them)

If it were the case that this was all staged, wouldn't law enforcement be devoting much less resources to it?

I could see them still working the case because there could certainly be criminal charges for staging an abduction and especially for fraudulently soliciting "reward" money. But in that scenario, I don't think they would have the FBI and the Texas Rangers in on the case. Seems like a huge waste of man-power if you know that the whole thing is not really as it seems.

JMO