AL AL - J.B. Beasley, 17, & Tracie Hawlett, 17, Ozark, 31 July 1999 #1

[LR1]

I've never felt the license being out in the open points to anything in particular. I've read where it was on the dash and also read it was on the console, don't know which is correct. I've seen people who leave it out in the open, especially young people with a newly issued a license will leave it out as a matter of pride of having been given this freedom or just to have it easily accessible. I do not however think this rules out a cop or someone pretending to be one, that theory is still in play afaic.

The problem I have with it being someone who pulled them over and took control is where did he leave his vehicle. I can't see him wanting to walk too far to have to get back to his vehicle and the only commercial lots close by and on the main road is the store and the buildings across the tracks, that leaves the main road, peoples driveways or property as the only other place to leave his ride. unless of course the girls ventured off the main road or were directed to follow, this would open other places as possible stash spots for his ride.

All this assuming its one person and not multiple which in the case that it is leaves me with the question why was there no attempt at concealment? A possible answer to that question is that they were killed close by and leaving it there was less risky than driving it out of town somewhere. To me for some reason the possibility of it being someone on foot that they crossed paths with makes more sense seeing the car was left where it was.

I don't think auto insurance was a requirement in Al back then.

 

[Archangel7]

Something just occurred to me. Every time I was ever in a car (either as driver or passenger) with a friend when we were both minors and we were pulled over by a police officer, the officer asked to see both of our licenses.

Does anyone know if this is universal protocol? Have you had the same experience?

If so, why wasn't Tracie's driver's license out too? How far does this go in your book toward ruling out an actual LE officer as the killer?

Maybe there's an easy answer to this one — if the girls were pulled over by someone posing as LE, perhaps the ruse only lasted to the point where the perpetrator approached J.B.'s window and the perp then pulled a gun — but I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on this.

I'm also curious as to why there was no mention of J.B.'s registration or proof of insurance being left out, or of the glove compartment being open. Again, an easy answer would be that if J.B. had never been pulled over before, she may not have known what to do.

Does the license alone being left out in the car suggest strongly enough to you that this was a LE/LE impostor killer?

Very interesting case. Just some thoughts about it.

The white truck at the pumps is very suspicious.
The first Traffic light appears to be at 27 & East Ave. Also has a parking lot located across from church in order to park and catch the girls at a red light.

It is apparently well lit and they would likely not feel threatened there. It also gives easy access to Depot Lane and Herring st. area.

Is that apartments or a motel on Depot lane?

Not sure if the ID on dash is significant. Police usually ask for DL from the vehicle operator and if odd hours, car full of youths, etc., may check ID and if reasonably suspicious for probable cause may at least briefly interview one at a time to ascertain everyone is ok and there of their own accord, etc.

Anyone in the military or police are fingerprinted, so that eliminates the Fort and legit Police as far as the hand print on trunk.

Apparently the semen is not entered in CODIS.

Almost sounds like a pervert who got cold feet after his thrill and convinced himself he couldnt let them go.

Or a killer that knew there was no remote possibility of ever being tied to the murder and the semen and balanced shell casing flaunts that.

 

[LR1]

I would feel better about the DNA found on JB belonging to the killer if they would have found matching DNA in the car itself, like on the steering wheel the seats the gear shifter etc. By 99 well into the use of forensic DNA technology the examiners should/would have been looking for traces in and around the car. While its not a 100 % certainty the DNA found on JB is from the killer it is certain that whoever placed the car where it was left some DNA in the car and likely multiple places in the car.
Nowadays they would be swabbing down every surface in that car looking for hair, skin cells and literally blood sweat and tears which all contain our DNA. They have never told of DNA being found inside but if I remember correctly early reports stated there was good amount of evidence found in the car. Maybe they found DNA inside the car that matched what was on JB and this is the reason they seem to appear so sure its related to the killer.

At the same time if they would have found DNA inside the car that didn't match what was on JB would they be running it against suspects as well?

You have the whole barrentine fiasco swirling around in mid to late Aug with his arrest being Sept 1, adding to that the fact it wasn't until 2 months after the killings that the DNA was discovered from the evidence left on JB. This leads me to the obvious notion that some things were missed early on due to at the least a lack of knowledge of the evidence they had and at the worst sheer incompetence. If this sounds harsh its because it was meant to be, it comes from 14 years with no justice for the victims and their families.

I wonder where the car is now and about the timeline of the chain of custody and who processed it.

 

[Archangel7]

I would feel better about the DNA found on JB belonging to the killer if they would have found matching DNA in the car itself, like on the steering wheel the seats the gear shifter etc. By 99 well into the use of forensic DNA technology the examiners should/would have been looking for traces in and around the car. While its not a 100 % certainty the DNA found on JB is from the killer it is certain that whoever placed the car where it was left some DNA in the car and likely multiple places in the car.
Nowadays they would be swabbing down every surface in that car looking for hair, skin cells and literally blood sweat and tears which all contain our DNA. They have never told of DNA being found inside but if I remember correctly early reports stated there was good amount of evidence found in the car. Maybe they found DNA inside the car that matched what was on JB and this is the reason they seem to appear so sure its related to the killer.

At the same time if they would have found DNA inside the car that didn't match what was on JB would they be running it against suspects as well?

You have the whole barrentine fiasco swirling around in mid to late Aug with his arrest being Sept 1, adding to that the fact it wasn't until 2 months after the killings that the DNA was discovered from the evidence left on JB. This leads me to the obvious notion that some things were missed early on due to at the least a lack of knowledge of the evidence they had and at the worst sheer incompetence. If this sounds harsh its because it was meant to be, it comes from 14 years with no justice for the victims and their families.

I wonder where the car is now and about the timeline of the chain of custody and who processed it.

It might be semantics but........
When you say 2 months after killings before DNA discovered, is that literal or it was when you became aware of it thru media reports. It isn't unusual for a DNA result to take 8 weeks. I'm just trying to understand.

Also the hand print could have provided DNA. However there is a very specific protocol, procedure, process and sequence on what evidence is gathered in what order for it to be testable. It is possible to ruin, lose, miss and destroy evidence obviously. However I have no basis either way as to the integrity of the evidence collected.

What troubles me(and I don't know a lot about the case)is the killer apparently was certain he would in no way be tied to the crime. We assume he left the semen, rode/drove the car around, left the balanced shell casing and then left the car where it would be found. That generally indicates more of a calculating killer than a crime of opportunity.(if what we know is true.) Plus considering an opportunistic killing, how would/did he stop them or catch them stopped. He had to know they had been in Ozark. If he had unknowingly(about Ozark) caught them a few miles down the highway, he wouldn't likely take them back there to dispose of.

Also if the victims were "delivered" to him by an accomplice he would likely feel he's somewhat insulated from detection.

Not familiar with Barrentine fiasco, I'm not local.

all moo

 

[iron_angel]

I was wondering about something (sorry if it has been already discussed)!

A lot of ppl are talking about the car being driven around but was it because there was no fuel left in the car tank or because of the odometer?

If it is about the gas left in the tank, we do know that places selling it were closed at that time of the night, so I was thinking could this be a carjacking gone wrong? The killer(s) could have been stuck on the side of the road with an empty tank themselves and stopped the girls with the intention of stealing them and emptying their car tank but something went wrong and ended in the girl's murder?

I was thinking about this cos I dont know but it almost seems impossible for someone with such a limited time frame to be able to have the girls driving around with him in the backseat, then stop some other place, kill J.B. and Tracie, putting them in the trunk and then him (or them) driving to where the car was found and then completely wipe fingerprints off any surface in the car and leaving the scene without even being notice!?!? Just my opinion of course!

 

[SCHMAE]

Something just occurred to me. Every time I was ever in a car (either as driver or passenger) with a friend when we were both minors and we were pulled over by a police officer, the officer asked to see both of our licenses.

Does anyone know if this is universal protocol? Have you had the same experience?

If so, why wasn't Tracie's driver's license out too? How far does this go in your book toward ruling out an actual LE officer as the killer?

Maybe there's an easy answer to this one — if the girls were pulled over by someone posing as LE, perhaps the ruse only lasted to the point where the perpetrator approached J.B.'s window and the perp then pulled a gun — but I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on this.

I'm also curious as to why there was no mention of J.B.'s registration or proof of insurance being left out, or of the glove compartment being open. Again, an easy answer would be that if J.B. had never been pulled over before, she may not have known what to do.

Does the license alone being left out in the car suggest strongly enough to you that this was a LE/LE impostor killer?

Maybe JB was traveling light because she was going out to party. I can remember doing that and just take a DL and cash and my cigs and nothing else. Just thinking out loud.

 

[LR1]

It might be semantics but........
When you say 2 months after killings before DNA discovered, is that literal or it was when you became aware of it thru media reports. It isn't unusual for a DNA result to take 8 weeks. I'm just trying to understand.

Also the hand print could have provided DNA. However there is a very specific protocol, procedure, process and sequence on what evidence is gathered in what order for it to be testable. It is possible to ruin, lose, miss and destroy evidence obviously. However I have no basis either way as to the integrity of the evidence collected.

What troubles me(and I don't know a lot about the case)is the killer apparently was certain he would in no way be tied to the crime. We assume he left the semen, rode/drove the car around, left the balanced shell casing and then left the car where it would be found. That generally indicates more of a calculating killer than a crime of opportunity.(if what we know is true.) Plus considering an opportunistic killing, how would/did he stop them or catch them stopped. He had to know they had been in Ozark. If he had unknowingly(about Ozark) caught them a few miles down the highway, he wouldn't likely take them back there to dispose of.

Also if the victims were "delivered" to him by an accomplice he would likely feel he's somewhat insulated from detection.

Not familiar with Barrentine fiasco, I'm not local.

all moo

It was reported according to the autopsy that the girls weren't raped. now in my mind when a person has any type of sexual act forced upon them it is considered rape. Evidently evidence including their clothes and probably swabs were sent to the state forensic lab and depending on which reports you want to believe two months later the lab reported finding the semen on some of JB's clothes.

This report says it was November when the crime lab found the DNA, which would have been 3-4 months after the crime.

http://www.troymessenger.com/2000/07/30/one-year-later-a-father-remembers/

The discovery of the DNA it was reported surprised the investigators. The DA stated "You have to assume it's a sex offense, or at least came out of a sex offense, If we could find who donated that semen, I think we'll have the killer.”

I'm not saying the DNA is not related to the murder, it probably is but I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket unless I'm certain I did everything I could to exclude the possibility of a earlier consensual act or alternatively find DNA that matched in the car or as you say on the palm print although I'm not certain that ability existed 14 years ago.

I'm trying to think where they would come up with over 100 people to compare the DNA to. And would these people be considered suspects? persons of interest? that seems like a lot of people to me who they at least considered there was a chance of some involvement. Nothing is matching, have they not found the right person to test or is it possible one of the persons of interest they've talked to is the killer but he's not responsible for what was found on JB.

Dimes excellent overview of the case is on the first page, section 7 and 8 talks about the DNA found and Barrentine.

 

[Sulamith]

I am still curious if there were any railroaders (that would drive white company pickup truck)around Dotham/Ozark at the time of the murders.

Is is strange that LE would not open the trunk of the car right away?

 

[killarney rose]

I can't speak for Ozark, but in my nearby town, there is a little office next to the tracks that belongs to the railroad. In the past, I've seen them drive their truck in town, switch it to tires that run on the tracks and drive there. Dont know if that helps with your question, but thought I'd throw it at you.

 

[Archangel7]

I was wondering about something (sorry if it has been already discussed)!

A lot of ppl are talking about the car being driven around but was it because there was no fuel left in the car tank or because of the odometer?

If it is about the gas left in the tank, we do know that places selling it were closed at that time of the night, so I was thinking could this be a carjacking gone wrong? The killer(s) could have been stuck on the side of the road with an empty tank themselves and stopped the girls with the intention of stealing them and emptying their car tank but something went wrong and ended in the girl's murder?

I was thinking about this cos I dont know but it almost seems impossible for someone with such a limited time frame to be able to have the girls driving around with him in the backseat, then stop some other place, kill J.B. and Tracie, putting them in the trunk and then him (or them) driving to where the car was found and then completely wipe fingerprints off any surface in the car and leaving the scene without even being notice!?!? Just my opinion of course!

bbm

I personally was thinking it was because the car was reported "clean" at the store yet muddy/dirty when found. Which leads me to believe it was driven elsewhere and not just from the store to Herring on pavement. Just my opinion based on what I remember reading etc.

I myself, haven't seen any odometer info.

 

[Archangel7]

OK so I asked my DH, who is an absolute expert on all things dealing with cars and trucks. He looked at the truck. He says it is a circa 1966 chevy. He said the shape of the door and the fact that the back of the cab is rounded are both total giveaways. I have attached a picture of a 1966chevy without a bed on it. The doors on it have the piece at the top of the doors that jut out and follow the line on the sides of the truck. See what ya think.

I think I did this right.

He also said that the light spot on the door could be a west coast mirror.

That truck "trident" looks very much like the logo for AMTRAC Railroad Contractors home office located out of Ohio somewhere. IMO

Here's the logo......

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t368/u4icst8/amtrac-amtrac-railroad-contractors-rail-road-crossing-3-tracks-
85308583.jpg

ETA, apparently looking way back, it appears that LE has interviewed the owner of the white truck in the gas pump video.......Oh well.

 

[Veidt]

Maybe JB was traveling light because she was going out to party. I can remember doing that and just take a DL and cash and my cigs and nothing else. Just thinking out loud.

I agree with this. Even now whenever I'm going partying with friends, I'll take my ID card, cellphone, and enough money. When you're going to a party the last you want is to carry a clunky bag that might get in the way of dancing or having to stand up for hours on end. And I don't want to accidentally realise I've left something behind so I take just what I absolutely need for my night out and that I can easily keep track of.

I think that an off-duty officer or an impersonator could amount to the same in terms of DL procedure. All he would need would be to stop the girls and maybe convince them to step out of the car or open the window to him. He wouldn't have to waste time by asking both girls for their licenses if he could threaten them or whatever after that initial excuse, it's not like he needed to keep up appearances past that point if he was planning to kill them. :twocents:

The DL being on the dashboard. It might not be significant, like I have friends who depending on the type of vehicle will stash stuff like their cigarettes and phone on the dashboard. So maybe she could have simply placed it there. However, it sounds a bit random so I get the feeling that it probably means something, even if he wasn't an impersonator maybe he wanted to see who he had killed. Remember, he also took away the keychain so I guess he could have looked for a license so he could keep an eye on the case or keep track. But then there would be fingerprints, and I feel like unless he was initially wearing gloves like a police officer's gloves, then he would have touched the license to inspect it when it was handed to him (if he was impersonating a LE agent).

Was the other DL ever found? Did both of them have DLs?

That truck "trident" looks very much like the logo for AMTRAC Railroad Contractors home office located out of Ohio somewhere. IMO

Here's the logo......

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t368/u4icst8/amtrac-amtrac-railroad-contractors-rail-road-crossing-3-tracks-
85308583.jpg

ETA, apparently looking way back, it appears that LE has interviewed the owner of the white truck in the gas pump video.......Oh well.

Where did you find that post? I can't keep up with this thread!

 

[Archangel7]

I agree with this. Even now whenever I'm going partying with friends, I'll take my ID card, cellphone, and enough money. When you're going to a party the last you want is to carry a clunky bag that might get in the way of dancing or having to stand up for hours on end. And I don't want to accidentally realise I've left something behind so I take just what I absolutely need for my night out and that I can easily keep track of.

I think that an off-duty officer or an impersonator could amount to the same in terms of DL procedure. All he would need would be to stop the girls and maybe convince them to step out of the car or open the window to him. He wouldn't have to waste time by asking both girls for their licenses if he could threaten them or whatever after that initial excuse, it's not like he needed to keep up appearances past that point if he was planning to kill them. :twocents:

The DL being on the dashboard. It might not be significant, like I have friends who depending on the type of vehicle will stash stuff like their cigarettes and phone on the dashboard. So maybe she could have simply placed it there. However, it sounds a bit random so I get the feeling that it probably means something, even if he wasn't an impersonator maybe he wanted to see who he had killed. Remember, he also took away the keychain so I guess he could have looked for a license so he could keep an eye on the case or keep track. But then there would be fingerprints, and I feel like unless he was initially wearing gloves like a police officer's gloves, then he would have touched the license to inspect it when it was handed to him (if he was impersonating a LE agent).

Was the other DL ever found? Did both of them have DLs?



Where did you find that post? I can't keep up with this thread!

It appears as a quote in post #485

 

[iron_angel]

However, it sounds a bit random so I get the feeling that it probably means something, even if he wasn't an impersonator maybe he wanted to see who he had killed. Remember, he also took away the keychain so I guess he could have looked for a license so he could keep an eye on the case or keep track. But then there would be fingerprints, and I feel like unless he was initially wearing gloves like a police officer's gloves, then he would have touched the license to inspect it when it was handed to him (if he was impersonating a LE agent).

I was thinking exactly the same regarding the killer wanting to know who he had killed so he could keep an eye on everything the newspaper said about the crime and also maybe to know how the investigation is advancing! I'm having a problem with the killer keeping the keychain as a souvenir though! Usually serial killers do that but someone who did a single crime is something I never heard of before! But who knows!

 

[iron_angel]

bbm

I personally was thinking it was because the car was reported "clean" at the store yet muddy/dirty when found. Which leads me to believe it was driven elsewhere and not just from the store to Herring on pavement. Just my opinion based on what I remember reading etc.

This means it was reported clean by Ms Merritt? If the car was dark (where it was parked) it would be somewhat hard to know if it was clean or dirty imo.

Wish the LE would have given a little more info's to help this case being solved! If I was living there I'd try the FOIA (if Alabama has such law) and try to request the LE to release some more info's about the case!

 

[effect]

Something just occurred to me. Every time I was ever in a car (either as driver or passenger) with a friend when we were both minors and we were pulled over by a police officer, the officer asked to see both of our licenses.

Does anyone know if this is universal protocol? Have you had the same experience?

If so, why wasn't Tracie's driver's license out too? How far does this go in your book toward ruling out an actual LE officer as the killer?

Maybe there's an easy answer to this one — if the girls were pulled over by someone posing as LE, perhaps the ruse only lasted to the point where the perpetrator approached J.B.'s window and the perp then pulled a gun — but I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on this.

I'm also curious as to why there was no mention of J.B.'s registration or proof of insurance being left out, or of the glove compartment being open. Again, an easy answer would be that if J.B. had never been pulled over before, she may not have known what to do.

Does the license alone being left out in the car suggest strongly enough to you that this was a LE/LE impostor killer?

Back during this time you would have only needed your license .Alabama hadn't passed the insurance being mandatory law,also you were never ask for registration.And during this time as a passenger i never had to produce id.Alabama was old school back then.As a teen being from a nearby county me or whoever i was riding with were pulled over countless times in ozark. Like i said before ozark police didn't like out of towners after bedtime hours.Im maybe 5-7 years older than these girls were but i know this was still the norm.Hope this helps.

 

[newshound81]

A recent article on her case as it's been discussed here before: http://dothanfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=282132

 

[effect]

Got another question for LE.Was any Ozark police related to Beasley.Maybe the license was out for being pulled over initially but then maybe it turned into a trust issue.I have my reasons for thinking this,nothing i can comment on right now but ill dig around a little more.

 

[killarney rose]

Yesterday was the anniversary.......

http://www.rickeystokesnews.com/art...ge-14-years-after-dothan-teens-murdered-44466

 

[wanttohelp]

I wonder if the girls were known to smoke? Maybe before going back home they pulled over somewhere deserted to have a smoke. Maybe one had a fake idea that was placed in the wallet and the real ID taken out to buy the smokes?