Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[wary]

Though "pointed", it is well said, and to the point.

Expecting somebody not familiar with such a weapon to check it and determine whether it was unloaded, or loaded with what would be statistically far more dangerous than trusting the armorer.

MOO

Forget about ‘trusting the armorer.’ I agree that that is an impressively complicated procedure. But I WOULD expect an actor to be willing to understand the procedure, and to be willing to watch carefully as it was meticulously performed. As a great man once said, ‘Trust but verify.’

MOO

 

[Cryptic]

The problem with trusting the armorer is that it didn't work in this case. Someone died because of that trust. JMO.

I agree, in this case the "trust the armorer" concept did not work.

But, given the variety of weapons used on movie sets and the danger of people unfamiliar with weapons types trying to verify what is loaded, 'trusting the armorer' maybe the statistical winner in the long term.

 

[Cryptic]

MOO

Forget about ‘trusting the armorer.’ I agree that that is an impressively complicated procedure. But I WOULD expect an actor to be willing to understand the procedure, and to be willing to watch carefully as it was meticulously performed. As a great man once said, ‘Trust but verify.’

MOO

I agree, procedurally, things could have been different.

But, in the end, whether it is flintlocks, WWII weapons, olde west weapons, or modern weapons, the armorer is the expert and thus where the "buck stops", not the actor.

 

[RANCH]

I thought that on the model of revolver in question, it was not possible to easily spin the cylinder to check for bullets?

It's really easy. Pull the hammer to the half *advertiser censored* position, open the loading gate, and spin the cylinder to check each chamber.

Here's a link to a film armorer demonstrating how easy it is to check a single action revolver. Timestamp 5:10.

 

[RANCH]

I agree, in this case the "trust the armorer" concept did not work.

But, given the variety of weapons used on movie sets and the danger of people unfamiliar with weapons types trying to verify what is loaded, 'trusting the armorer' maybe the statistical winner in the long term.

If an actor cannot be taught how to do it themselves then they should have the armorer show them the condition of the firearm before handing it to them. JMO.

 

[Cryptic]

For the most part, our opinions on AB’s culpability, parallel our basic knowledge of gun safety. IMO

I learned basic gun safety at a young age. Probably because I grew up in south Louisiana where everyone hunts and guns are common place.

You are gently mistaken in this case. Our opinions do not parallel our our basic knowledge of gun safety.

I have been trained on weapons in past professions. I currently own and use a variety of guns, target shoot and also hunt on occasion. I have one hunting shotgun on order, and have a disassembled "rescue shotgun" currently soaking in my wife's kitchen in a solvent.

All the above guns are used, or will be used safely by myself and family members. I have taught all my children know how to safely handle common (key word) fire arms types.

I dont expect all of them to like weapons- but they all know how to safely handle them.

In the end, our difference is how we perceive where the final responsibility lies regarding actors, weapons and armorers- not our background in gun safety.

Probably because I grew up in south Louisiana where everyone hunts and guns are common place.

In addition to gun safety knowledge, we have something else distantly in common. I am also of francophone descent, but from another French speaking culture. No bayous, but deserts and dry hills.

 

[Cryptic]

If an actor cannot be taught how to do it themselves then they should have the armorer show them the condition of the firearm before handing it to them. JMO.

I can agree to that procedure. One actor stated that that was rigorously followed on a set he worked on that included weapons.

 

[SuziQ]

MOO

Forget about ‘trusting the armorer.’ I agree that that is an impressively complicated procedure. But I WOULD expect an actor to be willing to understand the procedure, and to be willing to watch carefully as it was meticulously performed. As a great man once said, ‘Trust but verify.’

MOO

The problem seems to be, from what others posted up thread, is this was a very complicated weapon. And mere safety classes wouldn't teach an actor what to check for. I still fall back on the expert that was supposed to have such knowledge. HG.

Moo.

I was the plaintiff in a med mal lawsuit. The biggest point made is that a licensed professional in any occupation has a duty to state when their expertise and knowledge reaches their limit. They are expected to send their clients away.

Now I haven't seen that there are licensed Armorers. So I wonder is she is legally obligated the same way in this case.

Moo.

 

[wary]

If an actor cannot be taught how to do it themselves then they should have the armorer show them the condition of the firearm before handing it to them. JMO.

Another reason to do this is that you have a skilled person doublechecking the condition of the firearm, right before it gets into the hands of the actor. That eliminates the nonsense that we’re hearing of a debate over who checked the gun last, when it was checked, and whether it was left unattended after it was checked. You KNOW who checked the gun last, you even have a witness to that.

 

[SuziQ]

If an actor cannot be taught how to do it themselves then they should have the armorer show them the condition of the firearm before handing it to them. JMO.

I agree with this. Moving forward hopefully this will be procedure.

 

[ilovewings]

MOO

Forget about ‘trusting the armorer.’ I agree that that is an impressively complicated procedure. But I WOULD expect an actor to be willing to understand the procedure, and to be willing to watch carefully as it was meticulously performed. As a great man once said, ‘Trust but verify.’

MOO

I would hazard a guess that actors who shoot guns in movies are used to situations wherein when they are handed a gun that has been deemed safe by experts on the set,
they do not check the gun for safety issues: they have a right to rely on those experts, and most likely have been doing it this way for decades. If Alec Baldwin has any liability, IMO it will be for his role as a producer, not an actor. It is surely not the standard of practice for actors to make sure the gun is safe.

 

[Cool Cats]

Pieced together: the definitive account of what happened with Alec Baldwin on the set of Rust

A HAUNTING final image of Halyna Hutchins shows the cinematographer filming in a chapel on the set of the film Rust before she was accidentally shot and killed.

But on the morning of the shoot, Ms Gutierrez-Reed told detectives that she checked all the ammunition to ensure none were "hot," according to a search warrant affidavit made public on Wednesday.

In other words, she made sure they were all dummy bullets, which appear real, save for a small hole in the side of the casing that identifies them as inoperable.

When the crew broke for lunch, the guns used for filming were locked in a safe inside a large white truck where props were kept, she said, but “the ammo was left on a cart on the set, not secured.”

"Only a few people" had access to the safe and knew the combination to open it, Ms Gutierrez-Reed said.

When shooting began again, Ms Gutierrez-Reed says she was handed the guns after lunch by prop master Sarah Zachary and then placed three of them on a cart outside the chapel, ready to be used in the scene being filmed inside.

As they rehearsed the scene they were about to film, assistant director Dave Halls took one of the guns – a long-barreled Colt .45 revolver - from the cart and handed it to Baldwin.

Reports suggest there was not a set process being followed for handling the firearms. The affidavit released on Wednesday said Ms Gutierrez-Reed sometimes handed the gun to Baldwin, and sometimes to Mr Halls.

It was at this stage that Mr Halls should have conducted the required safety checks.

Usually, he told detectives, he would check the barrel for obstructions and have Ms Gutierrez-Reed open the hatch and spin the drum to show him there were no live rounds inside.

However, he told police that he only remembers seeing three rounds in the gun and could not remember if he had asked Ms Gutierrez-Reed to spin the barrel.

Nevertheless, Mr Halls yelled “cold gun” and handed the revolver to Baldwin.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

You are gently mistaken in this case. Our opinions do not parallel our our basic knowledge of gun safety.

I have been trained on weapons in past professions. I currently own and use a variety of guns, target shoot and also hunt on occasion. I have one hunting shotgun on order, and have a disassembled "rescue shotgun" currently soaking in my wife's kitchen in a solvent.

All the above guns are used, or will be used safely by myself and family members
I have taught all my children know how to safely handle common (key word) fire arms types. I dont expect all of them to like weapons- just to know how to safely handle them.

In the end, our difference is how we perceive where the final responsibility lies regarding actors, weapons and armorers- not our background in weapons.

Now, here in addition to fire arms knowledge, we have something distantly in common. I am also of francophone descent, but from another French speaking culture.

For the most part we agree. It would send me into sheer panic if someone handed me a ‘cold gun’ and told me to aim at the camera. It goes against the grain of everything I’ve been taught. The responsibility lies with me. But I’ve never been an actor.

I had to lol at your “wife’s kitchen”. That might get you into trouble in some parts of the country.

 

[tayaway]

The statement also asserted that Gutierrez-Reed has never experienced an accidental discharge during a film shoot, but identified two such incidents, one she said was the fault of the prop master, and another caused by a stunt actor after “being informed his gun was hot with blanks.”

Gutierrez-Reed, the statement continued, also attributed any difficulties with her job as armorer to the production itself:. “Hannah was hired on two positions for this film, which made it extremely difficult to focus on her job as an armorer.” Gutierrez-Reed also asserts that she “fought” for gun safety and maintenance training and for “proper time to prepare for gunfire,” requests that were “overruled by production and her department.”

(Snip)

'Rust' Armorer Breaks Her Silence, Blames Producers for 'Unsafe' Set

Zero integrity, takes no responsibility, ... May she be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Problem is, at this point, no one is fessing up to putting live bullets in that gun - The Armorer is saying she has no idea how live ammo got in the gun- there is the chance that we will never know who put live ammo in the gun-

The question is not simply who put live ammo in the gun -- it is also who put the live ammo in the one of six chambers that would be moved under the hammer when the gun was cocked. I do not think you can separate the two questions.

 

[Gardenista]

This is interesting. AB asks about the plinking and the sheriff says it may have been a rehearsal--that he has received a statement from someone about it.

Also says they checked HGR's pockets and he won't confirm or deny they found live rounds in her pockets and that DH is no longer speaking with them since he lawyered up. I like the way AB went about getting this info from him

Sante Fe sheriff discusses ‘Rust’ film set shooting investigation

 

[Gardenista]

Guns can safely be used on film sets, says Matthew McConaughey

 

[RANCH]

This is interesting. AB asks about the plinking and the sheriff says it may have been a rehearsal--that he has received a statement from someone about it.

Also says they checked HGR's pockets and he won't confirm or deny they found live rounds in her pockets and that DH is no longer speaking with them since he lawyered up. I like the way AB went about getting this info from him

Sante Fe sheriff discusses ‘Rust’ film set shooting investigation

A rehearsal? I wonder if someone heard the gunfire and assumed that there was a rehearsal involving blanks going on. Since live ammunition is not allowed on set I may have done the same if I was there. JMO.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Guns can safely be used on film sets, says Matthew McConaughey

Thank you. From your link:

“While not criticizing Baldwin, McConaughey said he "personally would try to always take even more steps" as an actor using a gun, including checking the weapon himself.

"You hear 'cold' -- now I want a visual," said the Texan star.

"If you and I are in a scene together, I need to give you visual. If it's a six shooter, do you see light through all six holes?

"Let me look you in the eye, you confirm, and you yell it out, 'cold.'"

_____

He also mentioned the protocols about using guns on sets.

 

[fred&edna]

This is interesting. AB asks about the plinking and the sheriff says it may have been a rehearsal--that he has received a statement from someone about it.

Also says they checked HGR's pockets and he won't confirm or deny they found live rounds in her pockets and that DH is no longer speaking with them since he lawyered up. I like the way AB went about getting this info from him

Sante Fe sheriff discusses ‘Rust’ film set shooting investigation

When I first saw this, I thought "AB" was referring to Alec Baldwin. 'Took me a minute to realize it's Ashleigh Banfield.