Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[Luna20]

New bullet photo.

“Alec Baldwin and wife Hilaria dine in Vermont bar closed to public as 'Rust' probe picks up steam.


“Blanks look nothing like a bullet packing a projectile, he noted.
There's not even a question -- the blank is not going to have a projectile," he said. "The part of the cartridge, the bullet is not going to be here. The cartridge will either be crimped or there will be some sort of wadding or plastic cap because the powder still needs to be contained."

And diligent checks minimize the risk of something slipping through the cracks. Katz laid out a simple plan to follow: Check for live rounds at the perimeter. Check again inside. Check while loading each blank cartridge into the gun. Make sure the barrel is clear. Then keep the weapon sealed and secured until it’s time to use it-when it will be checked again.”


Alec Baldwin and wife Hilaria dine in Vermont bar closed to public as 'Rust' probe picks up steam

 

[jjenny]

Blank is not the same as dummy. Dummy looks like a live ammo but is harmless. The gun was loaded with dummies, not blanks.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Thinking about the live ammo on the set. HGR says she doesn’t know where it came from.

I am not a gun person, so I will ask - would specific sized, unusual ammo have to be used in the old-style gun? In other words, was the type and size of round common and easily bought anywhere? Or - would HGR (or a person familiar with that specific gun) have been more likely to have had to supply the round of ammo from specialty shops?

 

[jjenny]

I thought "dummy" rounds were only used in movies when they need bullets for viewing only, like when wearing them in a bandolier or in a camera shot of bullets in a box or lying on a surface. My impression was that dummy bullets aren't used in movies for firing from a gun. They're strictly decorative or whatever.

I wondered the same thing when I read that there were a few dummy bullets in AB's gun. Why would someone put those in the gun? That's not what they're used for. Perhaps they were put there by one of the idiots who was "plinking" or playing with the guns. Perhaps they were too dumb to realize what they were and mixed them in with live rounds.

No, AD knew there were dummies in the gun before giving it to Baldwin. He claims he saw 3 rounds when armorer showed him the gun. He admits he didn't check for the rest.

 

[Luna20]

Her father is a really experienced armorer, so I am assuming she got that first job because of nepotism. She supposedly learned from her father on how to handle guns. But I don't know how much attention she paid to gun training, or how much her father trained her. It's unclear to me why she would be nervous to load blanks, as she claimed she was during that first movie. Was there any licenses she as armorer supposed to have gotten? Or can anybody just show up off the street and be an armorer, as long as their father was an armorer?

A license and training certification would be smart going forward. There needs to be protocol with standards met to prevent this from happening again. If dummies are visually similar to live to an untrained eye that’s a problem for everyone.

 

[jjenny]

I wonder if they had dummy rounds with live primers. That's what killed Brandon Lee.

That would be the only reason to need to remove the rounds from the gun to see if it had a hole in the side. Dummy rounds with live primers would be easier to mix up with live ammunition.

They would also be "hot" rounds no matter what AD Halls called out. JMO.

The bullet that killed the cinematographer was not from a dummy round with live primer. When AD had armorer to open the gun after the shooting, the gun had four dummies with holes on the sides and a spend casing without a hole (from a live ammo, that's where the bullet came from).

 

[steeltowngirl]

Authorities said they found a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and actual bullets while investigating the set.

Once in the gun, checking the rounds can be more complicated, and Katz said it is impractical to expect actors to learn how to check their weapons for every film. That should fall on the armorers and other experts, he said.

"Give me an hour, I'll tell you how to hold a pistol and look professional," he said. "You may not be able to really shoot, but you'll be able to look professional when you're holding that pistol -- but I wouldn't trust you to check it and verify the status. Not unless you're trained a little better."

Alec Baldwin and wife Hilaria dine in Vermont bar closed to public as 'Rust' probe picks up steam

 

[jjenny]

A license and training certification would be smart going forward. There needs to be protocol with standards met to prevent this from happening again. If dummies are visually similar to live to an untrained eye that’s a problem for everyone.

They are similar but not identical. In the case of Rust dummies had holes on their sides. Armorer has to know the differences between cold and hot ammo-that's their job.

 

[jjenny]

Thinking about the live ammo on the set. HGR says she doesn’t know where it came from.

I am not a gun person, so I will ask - would specific sized, unusual ammo have to be used in the old-style gun? In other words, was the type and size of round common and easily bought anywhere? Or - would HGR (or a person familiar with that specific gun) have been more likely to have had to supply the round of ammo from specialty shops?

Pretty sure it didn't need special bullets. It was a colt 45.
You can see the video in the links showing you the gun.
An inside look at type of gun used in Alec Baldwin 'Rust' shooting incident (koat.com)

 

[Luna20]

They are similar but not identical. In the case of Rust dummies had holes on their sides. Armorer has to know the differences between cold and hot ammo-that's their job.

She’s insufficiently trained, careless or both.

 

[Kiranerys]

To me, that's the real question here. Somehow, live rounds got on the set. That doesn't seem accidental.

Earlier in the day, some of the workers walked off, so we know there were bad feelings.

JMOO -- something smells a little fishy about this whole thing.

Agreed. Especially as the live round just happened to be the one in exactly the right position to be fired first (sorry,I know nothing about guns or the terminology!)

 

[RANCH]

The bullet that killed the cinematographer was not from a dummy round with live primer. When AD had armorer to open the gun after the shooting, the gun had four dummies with holes on the sides and a spend casing without a hole (from a live ammo, that's where the bullet came from).

I didn't say that the bullet that killed Halyna Hutchins came from a dummy round. I said that dummy rounds with live primers would be easier to mix up with live ammunition. JMO.

 

[RANCH]

No, AD knew there were dummies in the gun before giving it to Baldwin. He claims he saw 3 rounds when armorer showed him the gun. He admits he didn't check for the rest.

Are you saying AD Halls took three rounds out of the gun and they had holes in the side?

 

[Kiranerys]

My understanding is that the live rounds were found either on the ammo cart or the prop truck. As such, it's hard to understand how she could have not known there was live ammo on set.
Like an analogy in one of the articles linked on the thread, an armorer claiming they don't know how live ammo got on the set is like a chef showing up to cater food and claiming he has no idea where this food came from.

Indeed. I was a cook in a school and had essential allergen training,and as such could only use ingredients from approved lists and suppliers, ie, I couldn't just pop to the shop to quickly replace an ingredient I was out of,even if it was the exact same brand as the approved one because it all needs to be accounted for if there was an incident, as such I alone was responsible for any food that left my kitchen and was served to the children. If something foreign was to enter my meals or even be served by someone else from my kitchen, that would be my responsibility and if a child was harmed due to ingesting a food containing say gluten,or nuts for example,then it would be me who would be prosecuted.

 

[jjenny]

Are you saying AD Halls took three rounds out of the gun and they had holes in the side?

Nope. Gun was supposed to have been loaded with dummies. AD claims he saw three rounds after armorer showed him the gun before he gave the gun to Baldwin (AD didn't say he verified they were dummies). He didn't check for the rest.

 

[jjenny]

Agreed. Especially as the live round just happened to be the one in exactly the right position to be fired first (sorry,I know nothing about guns or the terminology!)

We don't know if it was in the right position to be fired. Baldwin was rehearsing that morning, and after lunch. We don't know if "shot" it before and nothing came out because the rest of the ammo were dummies.

 

[tayaway]

Her father is a really experienced armorer, so I am assuming she got that first job because of nepotism. She supposedly learned from her father on how to handle guns. But I don't know how much attention she paid to gun training, or how much her father trained her. It's unclear to me why she would be nervous to load blanks, as she claimed she was during that first movie. Was there any licenses she as armorer supposed to have gotten? Or can anybody just show up off the street and be an armorer, as long as their father was an armorer?

It doesn't make sense, if HRG followed in her father's footsteps, she'd have no fear of deciphering between dummy/blank/live/whatever - it'd be second nature, b/c he'd have drilled the safety protocols into her until she could do them in her sleep. Maybe she only recently developed an interest in weapons? The photos of her in the DM articles show her glorifying guns, which comes across as an immature individual, not a professional. She made serious mistakes on the Nick Cage movie set. Good thing she wasn't involved in Breaking Bad or any of the Quentin Tarantino movies.

 

[jjenny]

It doesn't make sense, if HRG followed in her father's footsteps, she'd have no fear of deciphering between dummy/blank/live/whatever - it'd be second nature, b/c he'd have drilled the safety protocols into her until she could do them in her sleep. Maybe she only recently developed an interest in weapons? The photos of her in the DM articles show her glorifying guns, which comes across as an immature individual, not a professional. She made serious mistakes on the Nick Cage movie set. Good thing she wasn't involved in Breaking Bad or any of the Quentin Tarantino movies.

I believe the plan to become an armorer materialized only recently. Prior to that she wanted to be a model or something like that. So I also don't think she was trained extensively by her father. She does appear to be claiming she was around guns a lot during her childhood.

 

[RANCH]

Nope. Gun was supposed to have been loaded with dummies. AD claims he saw three rounds after armorer showed him the gun before he gave the gun to Baldwin (AD didn't say he verified they were dummies). He didn't check for the rest.

You said that AD knew there where dummies in the gun before giving it to Baldwin. How did he determine that without taking them out of the gun to look for the hole in the side?

Dummy rounds with live primers would look identical to live rounds when loaded in the gun. JMO.

 

[jjenny]

You said that AD knew there where dummies in the gun before giving it to Baldwin. How did he determine that without taking them out of the gun to look for the hole in the side?

Dummy rounds with live primers would look identical to live rounds when loaded in the gun. JMO.

I didn't mean he knew for sure there were dummies in the gun. He knew there were rounds in the gun (which he presumably assumed were dummies, if he didn't check them for holes on sides). He says he saw three rounds. He doesn't clarify if he checked for these rounds being dummies, and admits he didn't see the rest.