Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[Luna20]

‘Rust’ First AD Dave Halls Not A DGA Member, But Took Mandatory Safety Training – Deadline

“DGA rules require that “If you are an Assistant Director, Unit Production Manager, Associate Director, or Stage Manager, you must take Saftey Pass Training.” And though Halls is not a DGA member, safety records show that he has completed both “Mandatory DGA Safety Training” and “Covid-19 Prevention Training.” Halls’ attorney did not return calls for comment”

 

[whitelilac]

RSBM.

Do we know what HG's armoury experience was before this year?

I would think that some kind of certification in at least basic gun safety would be required? I'm not sure that just anyone can adequately perform this role. I would imagine that attributes such as attention to detail, adherence to safely protocols, stability and integrity would be important.

Perhaps internships under experts like Larry Zanoff, could give new armourers experience. I noticed that he is POST certified and has military experience.

Larry Zanoff - Biography - IMDb

Rust was her second job.

The first was a movie with Nicolas Cage

"The armorer who prepared the prop gun used by Baldwin on Thursday was identified in search warrant documents as Hannah Gutierrez. She had recently finished work on her first project as head armorer, she said in a September podcast interview.
"I was really nervous about it at first," Gutierrez said of working as head armorer on the set of the movie "The Old Way," starring Nicolas Cage.
"I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready, but doing it, like it went really smoothly," she said in an interview"
Alec Baldwin shooting: District attorney hasn't ruled out criminal charges - CNN (scroll down)

She said it went "smoothly" yet Nicolas Cage had a complete fit when she fired a gun, without warning that just about blew out his eardrums. More in the article, quite telling.
Inexperienced 'Rust' Armorer Drew Numerous Complaints for Last Film

 

[steeltowngirl]

‘Rust’ First AD Dave Halls Not A DGA Member, But Took Mandatory Safety Training – Deadline

“DGA rules require that “If you are an Assistant Director, Unit Production Manager, Associate Director, or Stage Manager, you must take Saftey Pass Training.” And though Halls is not a DGA member, safety records show that he has completed both “Mandatory DGA Safety Training” and “Covid-19 Prevention Training.” Halls’ attorney did not return calls for comment”

I’m not so sure Halls completed the firearms section of the safety training.

I did a search on the Mandatory DGA safety training. It links back to DGACA and CSATF “A” Course + DGPTP Safety Passport Training.

In the course list, the firearm safety section “S” is listed as required only for “Property” and “Property Master”.

DGACA

https://www.csatf.org/sppguide-required_course_list/

 

[whitelilac]

Article from a couple of days ago:

”It could escalate from complacency to recklessness that disregards safety and human life,“ one lawyer says as more evidence emerges

Details emerging about the deadly shooting on the set of “Rust” are revealing that the indie Western film’s armorer and assistant director could face criminal charges for their role in the on-set accident that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, legal experts tell TheWrap.

Based on details around gun safety on set and the inexperience of armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, this investigation could now involve reckless or negligent behavior and provide grounds for criminal prosecution, experts told TheWrap. And, they said, Alec Baldwin faces greater legal danger as a producer on the film than he does as the actor who fired the fatal shot on the New Mexico set.

Why Rust Armorer and Assistant Director Could Face Criminal Charges

 

[Caroclaud]

Why would snippets of testimony from DH and HG be released into the public domain? Wouldn’t this kind of evidence and perspective be withheld until the trial?

I mean it’s great for us to have sight of some of their comments so we can analyse the situation , but would you not be better to just keep quiet and not release anything? Maybe it’s just the US system which I’m unfamiliar with.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Why would snippets of testimony from DH and HG be released into the public domain? Wouldn’t this kind of evidence and perspective be withheld until the trial?

I mean it’s great for us to have sight of some of their comments so we can analyse the situation , but would you not be better to just keep quiet and not release anything? Maybe it’s just the US system which I’m unfamiliar with.

The bits of info about what they told detectives is from released affidavits. I'm not American so someone else can explain it better than me but affidavits for search warrants are public record once the warrant is executed unless there is a compelling reason to apply to the court to have it sealed, I believe.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

After days of investigation, a new name has bubbled to the surface in the Alec Baldwin-"Rust" accidental movie set shooting case: Sarah Zachry.

Zachry is credited as the film's property – or prop – master. It was revealed Wednesday that Zachry was one of four people to handle a gun on the set of "Rust" Oct. 21 that was discharged by actor Baldwin – who authorities said believed the gun was "cold" or unloaded during a rehearsal.

(...)

Chicago-based attorney Andrew Stoltmann said that given the short amount of time Zachry seemed to be in possession of the gun, she "would likely have no liability."

However, should she have been "obligated somehow to be an on-site safety inspector," the story would be different.

(...)

'Rust' prop master Sarah Zachry ‘most likely to serve only as a witness’ in on-set tragedy: expert

 

[MajorHoople]

Behind a paywall. But you know, Hollywood is probably even more competitive, gossipy and spiteful, than every other industry.

I think I found the same article on Yahoo (free). My apologies if this has already been posted.

Alec Baldwin has long lived at the center of a storm. Now comes a hurricane

 

[GatorFL]

So in fact a dummy could have a realistic looking primer.

Seen a couple different ways. A piece of brass pressed in so it looks realistic or the primer is replaced with some filler and sanded smooth. But they always have a hole drilled in the side where the charge would be so you know it is not a live round.

 

[GatorFL]

A dummy primer used in dummy rounds in films? Can you link that?

IIRC they are called a false primer, not a dummy primer. Can't link a film because frankly I can't recall a movie where there was enough focus on the primer. Usually a closeup is of a bullet in a barrel ready to fire or alternatively an actor loading a gun or magazine.

An alternative to a dummy round is called a snap cap. It's also completely inert. They're used to dry fire a gun. I've seen these a couple of ways, no primer at all or a primer that has a built in shock absorber to counter the firing pin.

 

[GRT]

The first thing to determine is if this was an accident, with several people who dropped the ball. Or someone had wanted to practice with the gun, and accidentally left a bullet in the gun. The fact that the security was so lax as to leave guns out on a table is one problem, and so many people had access to the control area..it was a joke.

Or, if this was deliberate malfeasance, did someone deliberately place live ammunition in the same area as the dummy bullets? Did someone deliberately load the weapon in question with a real bullet, on purpose?

We know that there were employment issues, union issues...

To me, that's the real question here. Somehow, live rounds got on the set. That doesn't seem accidental.

Earlier in the day, some of the workers walked off, so we know there were bad feelings.

JMOO -- something smells a little fishy about this whole thing.

 

[RANCH]

IIRC they are called a false primer, not a dummy primer. Can't link a film because frankly I can't recall a movie where there was enough focus on the primer. Usually a closeup is of a bullet in a barrel ready to fire or alternatively an actor loading a gun or magazine.

An alternative to a dummy round is called a snap cap. It's also completely inert. They're used to dry fire a gun. I've seen these a couple of ways, no primer at all or a primer that has a built in shock absorber to counter the firing pin.

Do you know why someone would go to the expense and trouble making a dummy round that is harder to distinguish from a live round? If the closeup is to the rear why not film a blank that has a live primer in it?

If the goal is to make it look identical to a live round why drill a hole in the side? Why not put BB's in it?

I have .38 SPL snap caps that I use when dry firing my .357. They are all black. Nothing that would be used on a film. The plastic "primer" in them have a slight dimple from using them.

I did a Google search for "false primer" and the only close result I got was this Amazon listing. This wouldn't work for filming. JMO.

https://www.amazon.com/Tipton-Revolver-Reusable-Construction-Dry-Firing/dp/B0048KKG8E?th=1

 

[Speculaytor]

To me, that's the real question here. Somehow, live rounds got on the set. That doesn't seem accidental.

Earlier in the day, some of the workers walked off, so we know there were bad feelings.

JMOO -- something smells a little fishy about this whole thing.

I so agree. And if HGR was told, and it was expected that no live rounds were on this set, who brought the live ammo?

 

[jjenny]

Do you know why someone would go to the expense and trouble making a dummy round that is harder to distinguish from a live round? If the closeup is to the rear why not film a blank that has a live primer in it?

If the goal is to make it look identical to a live round why drill a hole in the side? Why not put BB's in it?

I have .38 SPL snap caps that I use when dry firing my .357. They are all black. Nothing that would be used on a film. The plastic "primer" in them have a slight dimple from using them.

I did a Google search for "false primer" and the only close result I got was this Amazon listing. This wouldn't work for filming. JMO.

https://www.amazon.com/Tipton-Revolver-Reusable-Construction-Dry-Firing/dp/B0048KKG8E?th=1

There are all kinds of ways to distinguish dummies from real ammo. Hole on the side is one of those methods. Some have different colors. BB's seems even more dangerous to me, because you have to shake it to hear the BB's. There could be other noises going on the set at the time. Per AD, what the dummies on Rust had was the hole on the side. That's how they were supposed to check dummies. AD didn't say they looked at the primer or listened to the BB's. So their dummies had holes on their side.

 

[jjenny]

I so agree. And if HGR was told, and it was expected that no live rounds were on this set, who brought the live ammo?

My understanding is that the live rounds were found either on the ammo cart or the prop truck. As such, it's hard to understand how she could have not known there was live ammo on set.
Like an analogy in one of the articles linked on the thread, an armorer claiming they don't know how live ammo got on the set is like a chef showing up to cater food and claiming he has no idea where this food came from.

 

[jjenny]

Rust was her second job.

The first was a movie with Nicolas Cage

"The armorer who prepared the prop gun used by Baldwin on Thursday was identified in search warrant documents as Hannah Gutierrez. She had recently finished work on her first project as head armorer, she said in a September podcast interview.
"I was really nervous about it at first," Gutierrez said of working as head armorer on the set of the movie "The Old Way," starring Nicolas Cage.
"I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready, but doing it, like it went really smoothly," she said in an interview"
Alec Baldwin shooting: District attorney hasn't ruled out criminal charges - CNN (scroll down)

She said it went "smoothly" yet Nicolas Cage had a complete fit when she fired a gun, without warning that just about blew out his eardrums. More in the article, quite telling.
Inexperienced 'Rust' Armorer Drew Numerous Complaints for Last Film

Her father is a really experienced armorer, so I am assuming she got that first job because of nepotism. She supposedly learned from her father on how to handle guns. But I don't know how much attention she paid to gun training, or how much her father trained her. It's unclear to me why she would be nervous to load blanks, as she claimed she was during that first movie. Was there any licenses she as armorer supposed to have gotten? Or can anybody just show up off the street and be an armorer, as long as their father was an armorer?

 

[Betty P]

Do you know why someone would go to the expense and trouble making a dummy round that is harder to distinguish from a live round? If the closeup is to the rear why not film a blank that has a live primer in it?

If the goal is to make it look identical to a live round why drill a hole in the side? Why not put BB's in it?

I have .38 SPL snap caps that I use when dry firing my .357. They are all black. Nothing that would be used on a film. The plastic "primer" in them have a slight dimple from using them.

I did a Google search for "false primer" and the only close result I got was this Amazon listing. This wouldn't work for filming. JMO.

https://www.amazon.com/Tipton-Revolver-Reusable-Construction-Dry-Firing/dp/B0048KKG8E?th=1

I thought "dummy" rounds were only used in movies when they need bullets for viewing only, like when wearing them in a bandolier or in a camera shot of bullets in a box or lying on a surface. My impression was that dummy bullets aren't used in movies for firing from a gun. They're strictly decorative or whatever.

I wondered the same thing when I read that there were a few dummy bullets in AB's gun. Why would someone put those in the gun? That's not what they're used for. Perhaps they were put there by one of the idiots who was "plinking" or playing with the guns. Perhaps they were too dumb to realize what they were and mixed them in with live rounds.

 

[RANCH]

I thought "dummy" rounds were only used in movies when they need bullets for viewing only, like when wearing them in a bandolier or in a camera shot of bullets in a box or lying on a surface. My impression was that dummy bullets aren't used in movies for firing from a gun. They're strictly decorative or whatever.

I wondered the same thing when I read that there were a few dummy bullets in AB's gun. Why would someone put those in the gun? That's not what they're used for. Perhaps they were put there by one of the idiots who was "plinking" or playing with the guns. Perhaps they were too dumb to realize what they were and mixed them in with live rounds.

I wonder if they had dummy rounds with live primers. That's what killed Brandon Lee.

That would be the only reason to need to remove the rounds from the gun to see if it had a hole in the side. Dummy rounds with live primers would be easier to mix up with live ammunition.

They would also be "hot" rounds no matter what AD Halls called out. JMO.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

One thing still puzzles me. In the affidavit for the search warrant, the director (Joel Souza) was interviewed:

Joel said he was looking over the shoulder of Halayna, [sic] when he heard what sounded like a whip and then loud pop.

It seems to me that the discharge of a .45 caliber round with a full powder load would make more noise than a "loud pop."

 

[Speculaytor]

My understanding is that the live rounds were found either on the ammo cart or the prop truck. As such, it's hard to understand how she could have not known there was live ammo on set.
Like an analogy in one of the articles linked on the thread, an armorer claiming they don't know how live ammo got on the set is like a chef showing up to cater food and claiming he has no idea where this food came from.

I don't know her side of the story though. I would like to hear from others on the set. There are plenty of witnesses. Was it common knowledge there was live ammo on the set, or did the crew believe there was none as HGR believed? You may be right, but I would like to know a lot more before I place blame; I'm not sure who that really belongs to yet. It sounds like more than 1 person may have been negligent.