Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[Satchie]

The armorer is off scot free. She had no chain of custody from the time she put the gun on the cart until AB fired it. UNLESS she was the one using the gun for target practice and the live ammo can be traced to her.

I wouldn't say 'scott free'. Most likely, it is in the job description of the Armorer to make sure no one interferes with the guns, period. And most especially after she has prepared them.

For example, lets say she prepares them 3 days ahead of time. All sorts of things happen to them. The AD grabs one to use for rehearsal, but this time checks it and finds it's messed up. That means he's going to have to stop the rehearsal, try to find the Armorer, and get her to prepare the gun properly. This is a mammoth waste of time and resources.

So I would assume an Armorer would have them locked up, or be watching and rechecking them frequently enough to notice if one had gone missing.

IMO, the AD should only be expected to do a cursory double check, with the assumption that the Amorer has done their job properly. The AD has too many other duties to be trying to get all the crew members to do their job.

But I agree, if they were being essentially stolen for private use, those are the people who broke the law.

 

[Kiranerys]

Disagree with the armorer is off scot free due to chain of custody. So.. if she sets up weapons on a cart, then walks away, are the guns then freely accessible to anyone?

I have a hard time believing she is not responsible for firearms on set until they are put away safely at the end of the day.

Right? Why wouldn't she stand at a safe distance but still with the guns in her sight at all times?

 

[Mo Thuairim]

No clue. She should have been fired after first two un-planned gun discharges, not praised, as far as I am concerned.

Agree. She should have been fired after those earlier unplanned discharges but also I think she should never have been hired in the first place. Production skimped on the budget and hired a sophomore armourer when they needed an experienced pro to take charge of the apparently large array of firearms they wanted to use on this film. Plus I can't believe she was also a props assistant. I don't think a head armourer should ever be tasked with anything else other than looking after gun safety. If she had any sense, she would have declined the job, as other more experienced people did.

 

[Gardenista]

Criminal Charges Possible in Shooting on Alec Baldwin Set, D.A. Says

 

[steeltowngirl]

Zanoff, a former gunsmith, now works to safely equip actors with guns on movie and TV sets. He has nearly 60 credits to his name on IMDb, ranging from "Captain America: Civil War" to "Westworld."

A Hollywood firearms expert explains how guns are supposed to be handled safely on set

“The disclosures are offering a glimpse into how guns are supposed to be handled on movie sets. Several professional armorers, who are experts in the handling of weapons, said it was their job to procure firearms and ensure they are safe to use, while assistant directors are supposed to inspect the guns and make sure they are not loaded; usually it is the armorer who then hands the gun to an actor.

Larry Zanoff, an expert in the use of firearms on film sets who worked on the set of “Django Unchained” as an armorer, said that under industry standards, the first assistant director is the lead safety person on set, and commonly inspects a gun to ensure it is unloaded and safe to use.”

Questions on Baldwin Shooting Turn to Assistant Director

 

[Gardenista]

Gloria Allred involved

'Rust' cinematographer Halyna Hutchins’ autopsy could take 6-10+ weeks, coroner says

 

[jjenny]

Agree. She should have been fired after those earlier unplanned discharges but also I think she should never have been hired in the first place. Production skimped on the budget and hired a sophomore armourer when they needed an experienced pro to take charge of the apparently large array of firearms they wanted to use on this film. Plus I can't believe she was also a props assistant. I don't think a head armourer should ever be tasked with anything else other than looking after gun safety. If she had any sense, she would have declined the job, as other more experienced people did.

I wouldn't have let her to take care of my pet rock, let alone all the guns.

 

[Luna20]

Right? Why wouldn't she stand at a safe distance but still with the guns in her sight at all times?

They should never be out of her sight as well as being the sole person to have custody of them.

 

[shotgun09]

Gloria Allred involved

'Rust' cinematographer Halyna Hutchins’ autopsy could take 6-10+ weeks, coroner says

They do seem to come out of the wood work, when the $$$$ is flying, don't they?

 

[PrairieWind]

It is my understanding now that the gun was not even supposed to have blanks in it. Is that correct?

 

[jjenny]

It is my understanding now that the gun was not even supposed to have blanks in it. Is that correct?

Yes, gun should have been empty.

 

[Satchie]

IF I was 'pretending' , and holding, pointing and accidentally fired a gun killing someone, but I stated to LE that my friend gave me the gun, and he/she said it was not loaded..and I really believed and trusted in my friend....would that hold water? Would that statement in the real world absolve me of any charges? Or would I be charged with at the least, negligence?

What people don't realize is that there is an actual legal difference between an individual operating in a private capacity (a natural person), and a person who is doing a job for a legally constituted organization (a juridical person).

This is an old idea but especially common today where people form companies, NGOs, governments, etc, and those entities have a legal status, on their own. Then those legal entities hire employees to work for them.

When you are an employee, you aren't taking action as yourself, for your own interests, you're taking action on behalf of your employer. If you are just acting for your own interest, in conflict with what your employer wants, you'll be fired.

IMO, if this had happened while AB was at home 'play acting' with some friends around the pool, it would be a very different situation, legally. But instead, it was all in the context of a production company, recognized by our legal system as a 'limited liability' organization, with paid employees.

IMO this isn't a trivial point. As an example, in olden days the leader of a group of people was some sort of king, and to get rid of him, you had to literally kill him. The natural person was the same as the legal role, it wasn't a job anyone could be fired from.

 

[shotgun09]

It is my understanding now that the gun was not even supposed to have blanks in it. Is that correct?

I had read the same a few days ago, that this gun was such a prized, pristine vintage weapon that was not allowed to have blanks, or altered ammo loaded. But, mysteriously the article is no longer there. I read many many articles over the last few days, and I do not remember the source.

 

[Gardenista]

Alec Baldwin Rust Movie Shooting: Inexperienced Producers to Blame? – The Hollywood Reporter

 

[10ofRods]

I think there's plenty of room for both civil and criminal liability here.

Whoever all those production companies truly are and represent, they are going to spend the next couple of years in litigation and settlements.

No loaded (live ammo) gun should have been on the chart. AD should also have checked it (in the presence of the actor). Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Alec himself sues someone eventually (intentional infliction of emotional distress via the means of putting live rounds in a prop gun).

 

[steeltowngirl]

New Mexico Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham said Tuesday that the state is prepared to take action to improve safety on film sets if the industry’s doesn’t.

“My expectation is the industry better step up and identify any number of additional improvements and safeguards,” she said at a news conference, reported by the Albuquerque Journal. “If the industry doesn’t come forward with very specific accountable safeguards, they should expect that we will.”

Her comments come in the wake of the death last Thursday of Rust cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, who was accidentally shot and killed during rehearsals for a scene in the indie Western outside of Santa Fe. Grisham called it a “horrible, unnecessary, preventable tragedy.”

She was joined at the press conference by Alicia Keyes, the state’s Economic Development Secretary, who said she’s been talking to industry leaders about possible changes to the state’s film safety protocols. “There’s just no reason there needs to be a fatality on the workplace anywhere, for any job,” she said.

‘Rust’: New Mexico Governor Says State Will Ensure Set Safety If Industry Won’t – Deadline

 

[Dotta]

They do seem to come out of the wood work, when the $$$$ is flying, don't they?

It is their job!!!!
People have to work, bills will not pay themselves

 

[borndem]

No denying Alec Baldwin's role in shooting mishap tragedy

We shall see how This plays out over time--- there are some good points made here----
There is a lot of blame to go around---- One thing I have wondered about is why was there a live bullet in that gun and could that have been done purposely by someone to cause harm to a person ? I don't think so but I don't think that aspect can be ruled out

bbm
Same thought here -- not my first thought, of course, and only a slight thought since, being a WSleuther, just wondered, as we all do here...
Why would live rounds even be there? My only thought was that since the cast & crew were filming outside in what appears to be a deserted-looking area, they might have had a weapon for snakes or other predators, but seems to me, if so, they would have had rifles and not handguns. Please know that I know next-to-nothing about firearms WRT dramatic scenes in outdoor places. This was an outdoor scene, correct, and not on a set? Why-oh-why live rounds? What's the reason? I would really like to know. Thanks to whoever can explain it.

 

[Only4Justice]

Criminal Charges Possible in Shooting on Alec Baldwin Set, D.A. Says

I can’t wait to see the press conference tomorrow. I hope they announce charges in this woman’s death. IMO

 

[10ofRods]

Later part - Bolded by me

Yes. I want to know who had the bravado to “target practice “ with a gun on a cart for real people to interact with as a COLD gun
(the person in charge had PUT on the cart)

I’m waiting on the armorers statement.
I’m waiting for it to be revealed WHO put(and left )a live round in that gun to be used filming the next day.
Because THIS is the person who is responsible for a horrible chain of events. MOO

Oooh, I would guess maybe someone using substances that disinhibit good judgment?

I'm sure they'll test the ammo boxes, the fanny pack and much else for drug residue. But LE should have given breathalyzer tests to everyone involved in the "art department" (armorer), props and stunts. Also, the director, any producers on set - and the person who fired the gun (because guns even when loaded with blanks - especially blanks with primer - are not to be pointed at anyone and typically, there's a safety class on this before filming starts). Director is responsible for setting up the shot so that it only appears someone is aiming at someone else (or the camera) and when something other than dummies are used, there should be a booth for the camera.

When people are shown holding guns to their own heads - there should be no bullets/dummies - nothing in the gun.