Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[Luna20]

Shouldn’t there be documentation of all this? Like the exact kind and amount of ammunition’s used and how much money they were?

Yes. And I can’t remember what it’s called but there are also actual sheets given out to the actors detailing the firearms info for each scene.

 

[Luna20]

Not sure why these lawyers are doing the rounds of the TV news. So far what I've heard has just made their clients look foolish or at the very least evasive. They seem to have a loose grasp on the facts too. DH's lawyer conjured up a phantom armourer's assistant and HGR's duo can't seem to decide when and for how long she left the guns and ammo unattended. But apparently it doesn’t matter anyway because saboteurs.

And the saboteurs knew how to make a live bullet look exactly like a dummy. Don’t believe that for a second!

 

[10ofRods]

Motive is the big issue. What would somebody hope to achieve by either a) loading a live round into the weapon or b) putting a live round into the box of dummy rounds? Any number of people had means and opportunity.

As far as HGR goes, the physical evidence is now hopelessly tainted (thanks to DH's reported order to unload the gun, and HGR complying) so a prosecution that survives the reasonable doubt test is hard to visualize. Civil liability is something else.

If only HGR's DNA is found on the cartridge (per your account of DH telling her to unload it), that should make the sabotage defense impossible or unlikely. If there's stranger DNA on the cartridge, it should match someone who had been on set (I believe most ammo is machine packed and not manually put into cartons - but the FBI will know the brand and the process).

I just hope there's DNA on the spent bullet casing, that's the one that needs close examination. Unfortunately, it will certainly have the director's DNA and HH's DNA on it as well. So it should be just those three people.

"He’s an actor, not a trained safety specialist. As far as I know, he’s not an avid gun handler in real life." AB does, however, handle guns as a highly paid professional actor.

If Hanna checked the rounds in the box and the gun, What, exactly did she check for?

There were three (I think) guns on the cart. Is it possible that only one was checked and that one was mistakenly not chosen for the scene?

Any un-used ammo (blanks, squibs, dummies) left after production would have been taken by the Armorer and sold to the next production that needed supplies. Additional revenue stream. Firearms were no doubt rented from prop company.

That's a really good question. One was a plastic gun, one was an operational Colt 45 replica, and one was an inoperational Cold 45 replica. For the purposes of the "technical rehearsal" the inoperational Colt 45 should have been used. Indeed, depending on what was going on, that should have been the only gun on the cart, as surely they weren't going to be firing blanks at such close range later in the day. OTOH, if this production was so on-the-cheap that it could afford any digital after-effects, then maybe they were going to try and get the smoke effect that a blank gives in that afternoon's shooting. I suppose they would have worked out where everyone would stand and perhaps operate the camera remotely. Alec should have been given a specific target to aim at, and no one should have been in the line of fire, period, full stop.

I think it was approaching chaos on this set. Alec says the crew was basically whining about travel time and that no one was working too many hours. Crew members saw it differently. Alec says that the Bonanza Ranch is "halfway" to Albuquerque, so it's not a big deal - but it's 51 miles from the ranch to downtown Albuquerque, and 45 miles to North Albuquerque (which is hard to book in October, because the Balloon Fiesta participants come in early and often stay an extra week). It's 24 miles from the ranch to the ritzy part of Santa Fe, but there are hotels much closer to the set...

At any rate, several sources say that crew members were sleeping in cars on set...3 incidents involving blanks being fired when it was not intended...live rounds on set...DH with a past history of safety problems. Big Yikes.

 

[Antimony]

Could they have been shooting promotional stills and needed the flash and smoke for that?

 

[jjenny]

And the saboteurs knew how to make a live bullet look exactly like a dummy. Don’t believe that for a second!

Her lawyer seems to be arguing that dummies look like live rounds (some of them didn't have holes?).
I don't think they are alleging live rounds were made to look like dummies. If SODDI tampered with live ammo to make live ammo look like dummies, it would be a clear case of sabotage, but I don't believe there is any evidence of anything like that.

 

[10ofRods]

Could they have been shooting promotional stills and needed the flash and smoke for that?

Possibly - although everyone involved has said it was a technical rehearsal for a live shoot later that day. If they did want flash and smoke, they had better have made sure that Alec Baldwin didn't fire at the cinematographer in any case. She was about 6-7 feet away from him. They needed to operate the camera remotely (and they were down to just one camera, as the assistant cinematographer had walked off the set).

 

[jjenny]

Possibly - although everyone involved has said it was a technical rehearsal for a live shoot later that day. If they did want flash and smoke, they had better have made sure that Alec Baldwin didn't fire at the cinematographer in any case. She was about 6-7 feet away from him. They needed to operate the camera remotely (and they were down to just one camera, as the assistant cinematographer had walked off the set).

Firing a gun loaded with dummies is not going to create any flash or smoke.

 

[Luna20]

Her lawyer seems to be arguing that dummies look like live rounds (some of them didn't have holes?).
I don't think they are alleging live rounds were made to look like dummies. If SODDI tampered with live ammo to make live ammo look like dummies, it would be a clear case of sabotage, but I don't believe there is any evidence of anything like that.

He is claiming a live round was put in but according to ammo experts that’s not a working theory because you can SEE the difference between the two.

 

[jjenny]

"He’s an actor, not a trained safety specialist. As far as I know, he’s not an avid gun handler in real life." AB does, however, handle guns as a highly paid professional actor.

If Hanna checked the rounds in the box and the gun, What, exactly did she check for?

There were three (I think) guns on the cart. Is it possible that only one was checked and that one was mistakenly not chosen for the scene?

Any un-used ammo (blanks, squibs, dummies) left after production would have been taken by the Armorer and sold to the next production that needed supplies. Additional revenue stream. Firearms were no doubt rented from prop company.

If it's a common practice to buy ammo from another set, it's even more ridiculous to assume that a box labeled "dummy" is guaranteed to have only dummies.

 

[jjenny]

He is claiming a live round was put in but according to ammo experts that’s not a working theory because you can SEE the difference between the two.

The live round was put into the gun-that's what killed the cinematographer-an actual bullet from the live round. Seeing a difference between two would depend on whoever is loading the gun paying attention. Live rounds and dummies look similar enough that if one is not paying attention, and they are in the same box, one can load a live round by mistake.

 

[Luna20]

The live round was put into the gun-that's what killed the cinematographer-an actual bullet from the live round. Seeing a difference between two would depend on whoever is loading the gun paying attention. Live rounds and dummies look similar enough that if one is not paying attention, and they are in the same box, one can load a live round by mistake.

According to what the expert showed, as a lay person I could clearly see the difference.

 

[jjenny]

According to what the expert showed, as a lay person I could clearly see the difference.

What was the difference?

 

[Luna20]

Rust (upcoming film) - Wikipedia

 

[Luna20]

What was the difference?

The tip.

 

[jjenny]

The tip.

The tip is the difference between live ammo and a blank. Blanks don't have tips (projectiles or bullets). Dummies have tips.

 

[Luna20]

The tip is the difference between live ammo and a blank. Blanks don't have tips (projectiles or bullets). Dummies have tips.

One was smooth, the other crimped.

 

[jjenny]

One was smooth, the other crimped.

Again, the expert was presumably explaining the difference between live ammo and the blank. Not the live ammo and a dummy.
Dummies are not blanks, and blanks are not dummies.

 

[Gardenista]

One was smooth, the other crimped.

No. Crimped is a blank

 

[Luna20]

No. Crimped is a blank

He showed one regular smooth tip (live) and the other had crimped tip. I don’t recall if he said Blank or Dummy on the crimped one.

 

[Gardenista]

He showed one regular smooth tip (live) and the other had crimped tip. I don’t recall if he said Blank or Dummy on the crimped one.

Blank. The ones with crimped tips are always blanks because the projectile is removed so it won't be discharged when the trigger is pulled. A dummy looks just like a real bullet with slight modifications.