Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #4

[GatorFL]

That's what I've been thinking about, too. She ought not to have been doing that after only one month's work as a paid armorer, IMO. Would take organizational skills that she seems to lack (that the whole set lacked).

I thought of other possible Does: ammo makers (someone can claim a defense that the ammo itself was defective, especially if they bought blanks and the boxes were improperly packed). I realize that's a very unlikely possibility, but I expect this case will bring out some really odd defense theories.

Downstream from the ammo are all the safety checks from the armorer, prop master and the actor. I don't see a lot of liability from the ammo manufacturer unless these were clearly supposed to be dummy rounds and they were live rounds instead.

I said earlier, the dummies I've seen before have all had the hole in the side. I can't imagine anybody with moderate firearms experience mistaking a dummy round for a live one.

 

[jjenny]

I am wondering if


Significant post: "store bought or reloads". Was HG saving money by making her own dummies and blanks? Is that why live rounds were mixed up with blanks and dummies? A lot of people do their own reloading. I have been wondering if this was the case here.

I really doubt it. Her lawyers claimed that she got the supposed dummies out of the box labeled "dummy" and thus they should have been dummies. That defense would go out of the window if she is the one who made dummies.

 

[jjenny]

Been wondering the same thing, especially since in her interview she talked about being so scared of loading blanks. Why would you be afraid of loading blanks? One reason I can think of is because you made them yourself and you were not sure you made them correctly.

I sincerely doubt she made any blanks or dummies herself. My understanding why she claimed she was nervous loading blanks (for the previous movie) is that she had very little actual experience of doing that.

 

[mickey2942]

I really doubt it. Her lawyers claimed that she got the supposed dummies out of the box labeled "dummy" and thus they should have been dummies. That defense would go out of the window if she is the one who made dummies.

She could have labeled the box herself.

 

[10ofRods]

I really doubt it. Her lawyers claimed that she got the supposed dummies out of the box labeled "dummy" and thus they should have been dummies. That defense would go out of the window if she is the one who made dummies.

Dummies and blanks are two different things. She's wearing dummies, I believe, in her photo of herself with the two pistols. They are made for theatrical productions, have different available finishes (so that they look shinier than if you used a real one).

Blanks are indeed made from live ammo - or they were - in past Westerns. Most people don't know how to do it, it's getting to be a lost art.

She certainly should have supplied a cold gun (dummies or empty). If someone put live ammo in the dummy box, she still should have been able to tell (although blanks are made in such a way that they're supposed to be easily distinguished from live ammo, dummies can be very similar to live ammo). They weigh less, a good armorer would notice that. Also, on the bottom of the casing, there's a dimple instead of a bulge - so, every person who works with guns knows to check a bunch of times for that feature if they think they're loading dummies. We have live and dummy ammo at our house, stored separately of course, but if I am practicing holding my weapon and taking the safety on and off, and taking the magazine in and out, I use dummies. Mine are purple.

 

[10ofRods]

Been wondering the same thing, especially since in her interview she talked about being so scared of loading blanks. Why would you be afraid of loading blanks? One reason I can think of is because you made them yourself and you were not sure you made them correctly.

I was thinking the same. That would be a good reason (did I get all the lead out?)

But the other reason is that people have been injured and killed by blanks. Someone was injured on the set of Rust by a blank (shot themselves in the foot). Many people have had eye injuries from blanks because they contain gunpowder. And crew is supposed to be alerted about the use of blanks, because when lots of blanks are shot, they should wear hearing protection.

If she was learning how to make blanks, I can see how she would worry.

 

[Luna20]

Anyone know who the bullet was turned over to?

 

[Cool Cats]

Anyone know who the bullet was turned over to?

FBI

Santa Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza said a lead projectile, which police consider to be a bullet, was recovered from Souza's shoulder. He said investigators have collected approximately 600 pieces of evidence, including what investigators believe was the gun fired by Baldwin, as well as "possible additional live rounds on set." All of the recovered items will be sent to the FBI for analysis, Mendoza said.

 

[jjenny]

She could have labeled the box herself.

Then it wouldn't work as a defense, would it?

 

[mickey2942]

Then it wouldn't work as a defense, would it?

Her attorney has said so much to bury her client, it is mind boggling.

 

[10ofRods]

Her attorney has said so much to bury her client, it is mind boggling.

Yeah, I agree. I've been thinking that maybe she has a family friend who is handling this for her. I think they are going to have to walk some of it back, but as to the ways in which she is now exposed to liability, the lawyer seems not to have had their thinking cap on. IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yeah, I agree. I've been thinking that maybe she has a family friend who is handling this for her. I think they are going to have to walk some of it back, but as to the ways in which she is now exposed to liability, the lawyer seems not to have had their thinking cap on. IMO.

How do you think she is getting exposed to liability by what the attorney says in public?

I know sabotage is a defense strongly mentioned.

 

[10ofRods]

How do you think she is getting exposed to liability by what the attorney says in public?

I know sabotage is a defense strongly mentioned.

You don't spell that out in advance. You wait to hear what other witnesses are going to say before nailing it on the church door, so to speak. He could have just said she did everything properly (which he did say - but which we know she didn't, so that was the first red flag and it will haunt her in front of a jury).

Of course it won't go to a jury with her, she has few assets, and they will settle on the blood from a turnip theory.

Lawyer pinned her down too closely to a specific set of facts that she might have "misremembered" or...whatever. But just wait to see what, specifically, she's accused of doing - at discovery. I realize he's trying to handle civil and criminal liability at the same time - so even moreso, he should have kept facts to himself.

Note that phrase "gained control over the guns." That means, after the shooting. Whose control were they in, if not HGR's in the first place and throughout? The Sheriff himself gave a conference at almost the same time, saying "There was complacency on the set" regarding weapons. So, the Sheriff is already directly challenging her on the points she's making. That's not good. Local are going to form opinions about her, a Hollywood outsider, vs. their trustworthy and very serious-appearing Sheriff, who also has a look of compassion and professionalism at all times.

She is absolutely certain she knows live ammo from blanks, but just a month before gave an interview in which she said it was the hardest part of her first job (loading blanks).

If she has direct eyewitness evidence of sabotage, that would be different - but since none has been produced, and it would be probably be illegal or at least ill-advised to refuse to give that evidence to LE right now, attorney should have waited until they were in court.

But sabotage does grab headlines, doesn't it? Either that's the ploy, or the lawyers are incompetent. They should have ridden it out a bit longer and made a general statement, not put their defense on display for LE to immediately punch holes in it.

 

[Antimony]

Years ago blanks were made by using spent brass (casing) or new casing, inserting a primer cap and the powder (a reduced charge), then, to hold the powder in the casing an article called "wadding" was inserted and glued to the opening in the front of the casing. That was a blank. easy to mistake for a real round or vice versa and the wadding was dangerous when fired (Hexum's death). In more modern times blanks are produced in an arms factory just like real ammo. A blank will be made from a special casing that is as long as a regular bullet for that caliber. That is so the casing cannot be re-used or mis loaded. the front of the casing is then crimped so it may not be tampered with. No competent person could mistake a blank for an active round.

 

[Luna20]

FBI

Santa Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza said a lead projectile, which police consider to be a bullet, was recovered from Souza's shoulder. He said investigators have collected approximately 600 pieces of evidence, including what investigators believe was the gun fired by Baldwin, as well as "possible additional live rounds on set." All of the recovered items will be sent to the FBI for analysis, Mendoza said.

Thanks @Cool Cats

 

[10ofRods]

Years ago blanks were made by using spent brass (casing) or new casing, inserting a primer cap and the powder (a reduced charge), then, to hold the powder in the casing an article called "wadding" was inserted and glued to the opening in the front of the casing. That was a blank. easy to mistake for a real round or vice versa and the wadding was dangerous when fired (Hexum's death). In more modern times blanks are produced in an arms factory just like real ammo. A blank will be made from a special casing that is as long as a regular bullet for that caliber. That is so the casing cannot be re-used or mis loaded. the front of the casing is then crimped so it may not be tampered with. No competent person could mistake a blank for an active round.

So, when the DA says she knows who put the live bullet(s) into the gun, immediately after HGR's statement, do you think she's throwing shade back at HGR and trying to shake her a little?

I agree with you that HGR was not making blanks. And she says there were no live rounds on the set nor would she have permitted it (according to her lawyer's statement). Yet, there was a live round in the gun, the armorer did not maintain custody of the weapon after lunch, and so on.

A person has to actually check for the crimping (either take the bullets out, which I would do - as I would inspect the gun immediately before use, if I were an armorer - and I would then ask the AD to verify that they were blanks, just in case I'm having some kind of bad day).

So, instead of saying, "I looked at each bullet, and they were all crimped," she says, "There were no live rounds on the set," which is actually untrue (they were there, somehow, but she didn't know about them? How did they get into her gun?" That's that someone is going to ask. So to me, it looks like the DA is confidently setting up charges against HGR - that's my guess, IMO, etc.

 

[Luna20]

Nothing much new other than pictures of him in his garage.

'Rust' head electrician Serge Svetnoy is spotted for the first time since suing Alec Baldwin | Daily Mail Online

 

[katydid23]

Nothing much new other than pictures of him in his garage.

'Rust' head electrician Serge Svetnoy is spotted for the first time since suing Alec Baldwin | Daily Mail Online

I do think it is important that he is pointing out AB's negligence. I am tired of all the articles painting AB out to be a total victim in this tragic incident. :



He told TMZ that he's suing Baldwin because he 'owed a duty to the Plaintiff and other crew members and actors on the "Rust" set to handle the Colt Revolver provided to him by Defendant Halls with reasonable care and diligence for the safety of "Rust" cast and crew.'

This duty called for Defendant Baldwin to double-check the Colt Revolver with Halls upon being handled to ensure that it did not contain live ammonization,' he added in the court documents.

Besides his alleged negligence as an actor Svetnoy also pointed to the 63-year-old's negligence as a producer of the movie.

He wrote: 'They attempted to save money by hiring an insufficient number of crew members to safely handle the props and firearms.'

According to TMZ the suit went on to claim that there were other failings on set, including violating 'industry norms, declining requests for weapons training days, failing to allow proper time to allow for gunfire, failing to send out safety bulletins and spreading the staff too thin'.

 

[GatorFL]

Of course it won't go to a jury with her, she has few assets, and they will settle on the blood from a turnip theory.

But sabotage does grab headlines, doesn't it? Either that's the ploy, or the lawyers are incompetent. They should have ridden it out a bit longer and made a general statement, not put their defense on display for LE to immediately punch holes in it.

Snipped: I think the sabotage defense is meant to keep her out of jail. Her liability should be covered by the production's liability policy.

 

[GatorFL]

I do think it is important that he is pointing out AB's negligence. I am tired of all the articles painting AB out to be a total victim in this tragic incident.

SBM
You and me both. Thanks for posting.