Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #4

[10ofRods]

I think there's been a bit of confusion, especially for those unfamiliar with New Mexico, about the geography where the shooting occurred, distances involved and so forth. People keep using the term "set," which while technically correct, is somewhat misleading. This was not like filming on the Universal lot, it was much much more of a location shoot, and phrases like "allowed live ammunition on the set" take on different connotations when you see just where the "set" was situated.

So I've annotated some Google Earth screenshots in the hope of clarifying things.

The first screenshot shows the location of the Bonanza Creek western town relative to the southern edge of Santa Fe and other landmarks, like the NM National Guard installation mentioned as a possible source of the sound of gunfire. "Hotel Row" is Cerrillos Rd/NM Hwy 14 and there are plenty of decent places for a hundred bucks a night or less. This screenshot shows only the northern half of the 2000 acre (8 sq. kilometer) ranch.

The second shot shows the entrance to the ranch. The area shown is about 400 acres, or a a little less than a quarter of the whole ranch. The point marked "Gatehouse" is the little red shack seen in MSM photos with the white gate beside it. 1.5 miles of classic New Mexico dirt road takes you to the western town.

The last shot is of the town itself, with the church at the far northern end.

I hope these give people outside of New Mexico an idea of what the locale of shooting was like.

The Bonanza Ranch was designed to be a movie set. Prior to this production, someone (probably State of New Mexico) built an entire fake/filmsy western town there so that it could be used as a set. I believe the church was built on the set and then torn down right after the shooting.

The shooting occurred in one of those set buildings. It's not too much like a location shoot, as no need to get local LE to shut streets, etc. It is a permanent set used for many western films. Prop guns were stored in a truck (it looks like a utility shot in the video I've seen) on set, and there was a "shed" being used to store ammo and give the armorer a place to work. I sure hope she wasn't trying to make blanks out of live ammo, like her father is known to do (but no one does that any more!)

There are closer hotels near the airport, which is what I'd assumed they were using, for convenience. For whatever reason, though, the crew was asked to find accommodations in Albuquerque. Crew members also complained about having to sleep in their cars on set, and about not getting paid.

I don't remember hearing anything about "sounds of gunshots" anywhere. We did see some now deleted posts and a few MSM articles mentioning "plinking" on set. At any rate, there was live ammo on the set. I think in another month or so, we'll hear a lot more about the plinking (easy enough to find witnesses and evidence).

I do doubt that the plinkers would have picked up all their casings, since apparently the crew was walking out away from the set into the beautiful desert to enjoy their evenings.

 

[10ofRods]

So that the boxes continue to contain purely dummy rounds.

Excellent point. So there's no tampering. Not that there are any incidents that anyone knows about of attempted murder via movie set tampering - but...it's still good practice.

Santa Fe residents have pointed out in newspaper comments that a whole lot of locals have .45 caliber ammo readily available. Some of the crew was local (quite a few, in fact).

There are a number of ways this case could still turn out to be quite bizarre.

 

[PrairieWind]

Excellent point. So there's no tampering. Not that there are any incidents that anyone knows about of attempted murder via movie set tampering - but...it's still good practice.

Santa Fe residents have pointed out in newspaper comments that a whole lot of locals have .45 caliber ammo readily available. Some of the crew was local (quite a few, in fact).

There are a number of ways this case could still turn out to be quite bizarre.[/QUOTE

.45 long colt is not an uncommon caliber in the west. It is a "cowboy" caliber. Its certainly more of a rural thing mostly. Ammo would normally be widely available in a place like New Mexico. It isn't cheap however. I just can't believe that the armorer would be allowing people to shoot these firearms recreationally, even if they provided their own ammo. First of all, those firearms would have to be cleaned, and that is a pain. Second you don't know if these people are prohibited from possessing a firearm probably. Are you going to go supervise them? Maybe the "plinking" people claim to have witnessed was people firing their own personal firearms after hours. That would make more sense to me.

 

[Antimony]

A lower power round loading in .45 Long Colt is frequently used in the "cowboy action sport/hobby". This lower power round is available in most parts of the country. Look it up.....Single Action Shooting Society.

 

[10ofRods]

.45 long colt is not an uncommon caliber in the west. It is a "cowboy" caliber. Its certainly more of a rural thing mostly. Ammo would normally be widely available in a place like New Mexico. It isn't cheap however. I just can't believe that the armorer would be allowing people to shoot these firearms recreationally, even if they provided their own ammo. First of all, those firearms would have to be cleaned, and that is a pain. Second you don't know if these people are prohibited from possessing a firearm probably. Are you going to go supervise them? Maybe the "plinking" people claim to have witnessed was people firing their own personal firearms after hours. That would make more sense to me.

Right. That was my point.

So lots of ways that a few live rounds could have made it onto the set.

How those live rounds made it into a weapon theoretically controlled by only 4 people (until it was left on a cart outside the church) is the real puzzlement.

HGR has adamantly denied any knowledge of plinking or live rounds on the set, and says she "wouldn't have allowed it." That's in her attorney-written statement, so she committed pretty strongly to that stance.

If personal firearms were being fired on set, then there was literally no oversight of what was going on. It's not like firing live rounds is silent. Also, I doubt it was only one person doing it for their own enjoyment. Even if it was after hours, then you have the really difficult question of how those live rounds got out of their owners' control and into the prop gun.

 

[PrairieWind]

Right. That was my point.

So lots of ways that a few live rounds could have made it onto the set.

How those live rounds made it into a weapon theoretically controlled by only 4 people (until it was left on a cart outside the church) is the real puzzlement.

HGR has adamantly denied any knowledge of plinking or live rounds on the set, and says she "wouldn't have allowed it." That's in her attorney-written statement, so she committed pretty strongly to that stance.

If personal firearms were being fired on set, then there was literally no oversight of what was going on. It's not like firing live rounds is silent. Also, I doubt it was only one person doing it for their own enjoyment. Even if it was after hours, then you have the really difficult question of how those live rounds got out of their owners' control and into the prop gun.

Agree. It is easy to see how live rounds get there. Anyone could carry them on. But as you said, it is just difficult to understand how those rounds get into a prop gun in the first place, AND are not detected later.

There were clearly a lot of serious breakdowns in procedure regarding safety on this set. But at least one person is also SERIOUSLY lying about what they did or didn't do.

 

[Cool Cats]

‘Rust’ Investigators Reveal New Details About Source of Live Rounds

Tue, November 30, 2021, 5:08 PM

Seth Kenney, the weapons expert who supplied the guns for the film,
described how a couple years back, he received ‘reloaded ammunition’ from a friend,'” the investigators wrote in the search warrant affidavit.

“Seth described the ammunition stuck out to him due to the suspected live round to have (sic) a cartridge with the Starline Brass logo on it… He described how the company only sells components of ammunition, and not live ammunition, and therefore it had to be a reloaded round.”

The search warrant affidavit also includes new details from interviews with Hannah Gutierrez Reed, the 24-year-old armorer on the film, as well as her father, veteran film armorer Thell Reed.

Gutierrez Reed described loading the revolver with five dummy rounds before lunch on Oct. 21. She said the sixth round would not fit in the gun, so after lunch she cleaned it out and then was able to load it.

She said she “didn’t really check it too much” before loading the final bullet because the gun had been locked up during lunch.“We had the gun the whole time before that, and nothing happened, and I wasn’t in there, and they weren’t even supposed to be pulling the hammer back,” she told investigators.

Her father, Thell Reed, provided a statement to investigators on Nov. 15, and gave a follow-up interview on Nov. 17. He offered his own theory on the origin of the live rounds. In his telling, he and Kenney worked together on another project in August or September, where they provided live fire training for actors on a firing range. Kenney asked Reed to bring some live rounds in case they ran out of ammunition.

Reed brought a can that included live ammo, and after the training, Kenney took the rounds home, according to the affidavit. Reed said he made several attempts to get the ammunition back from Kenney, but that Kenney told him to “write it off.” The can included .45-caliber rounds, and Reed suggested they might match the rounds found on the set of “Rust.”

PDQ MEDIA ARM & PROP, LLC :: Arizona (US) :: OpenCorporates
Agent Name
SETH KENNEY
Status
Active
Incorporation Date
20 September 2017 (about 4 years ago)
Company Type
Domestic LLC

 

[PrairieWind]

Interesting. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Further info from Yahoo News:

Zachry told investigators that the ammunition came from several sources, including Kenney and a man named “Billy Ray.” She said that Gutierrez Reed also brought some ammunition left over from a previous project.

Investigators obtained a warrant to search Kenney’s company, PDQ Arm & Prop, LLC, at its location at a strip mall in Albuquerque. The warrant authorizes investigators to seize documentation and any ammunition with the Starline Brass logo.

And here's the search warrant:

 

[MsMarple]

‘Rust’ Investigators Reveal New Details About Source of Live Rounds

Tue, November 30, 2021, 5:08 PM

Seth Kenney, the weapons expert who supplied the guns for the film,
described how a couple years back, he received ‘reloaded ammunition’ from a friend,'” the investigators wrote in the search warrant affidavit.

“Seth described the ammunition stuck out to him due to the suspected live round to have (sic) a cartridge with the Starline Brass logo on it… He described how the company only sells components of ammunition, and not live ammunition, and therefore it had to be a reloaded round.”

The search warrant affidavit also includes new details from interviews with Hannah Gutierrez Reed, the 24-year-old armorer on the film, as well as her father, veteran film armorer Thell Reed.

Gutierrez Reed described loading the revolver with five dummy rounds before lunch on Oct. 21. She said the sixth round would not fit in the gun, so after lunch she cleaned it out and then was able to load it.

She said she “didn’t really check it too much” before loading the final bullet because the gun had been locked up during lunch.“We had the gun the whole time before that, and nothing happened, and I wasn’t in there, and they weren’t even supposed to be pulling the hammer back,” she told investigators.

Her father, Thell Reed, provided a statement to investigators on Nov. 15, and gave a follow-up interview on Nov. 17. He offered his own theory on the origin of the live rounds. In his telling, he and Kenney worked together on another project in August or September, where they provided live fire training for actors on a firing range. Kenney asked Reed to bring some live rounds in case they ran out of ammunition.

Reed brought a can that included live ammo, and after the training, Kenney took the rounds home, according to the affidavit. Reed said he made several attempts to get the ammunition back from Kenney, but that Kenney told him to “write it off.” The can included .45-caliber rounds, and Reed suggested they might match the rounds found on the set of “Rust.”

PDQ MEDIA ARM & PROP, LLC :: Arizona (US) :: OpenCorporates
Agent Name
SETH KENNEY
Status
Active
Incorporation Date
20 September 2017 (about 4 years ago)
Company Type
Domestic LLC

Forgive me for being dense here but I don't fully understand this latest news.

"Reloaded ammunition" which was not factory made. Does that mean Mr. Kenney himself created live rounds from dummy rounds or blanks by packing them with gunpowder or other propellant?

If so then would the bullet look exactly like a dummy round or blank? IOW would they have a hole in the side or other markings to denote they weren't live?

Video in the following link says police were at the business office but didn't go in. They have until 10 pm tonight to enter otherwise they have to wait until 6 am tomorrow to execute the warrant:
Search warrant looks at person who provided ammo to 'Rust' movie set

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Could this crew get any sloppier? Reloads? Cans of of ammo? "Billy Ray?"

Reload with a partial load for Cowboy Action games makes sense.

 

[CrimeAway]

Interesting. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

"Reloaded ammunition" which was not factory made. Does that mean Mr. Kenney himself created live rounds from dummy rounds or blanks by packing them with gunpowder or other propellant?

He or somebody else did, according to the report. The reloader would buy the "brass" (casing), add primer, and proprellant, and use a special tool to press in the bullet.

My father, who was a sworn peace officer, reloaded all his practice ammunition himself.

 

[MsMarple]

He or somebody else did, according to the report. The reloader would buy the "brass" (casing), add primer, and proprellant, and use a special tool to press in the bullet.

My father, who was a sworn peace officer, reloaded all his practice ammunition himself.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Is that why the warrant references "Starline Brass?" And would the result look identical or nearly identical to a factory bullet with no markings like a dummy or blank would have?

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Is that why the warrant references "Starline Brass?" And would the result look identical or nearly identical to a factory bullet with no markings like a dummy or blank would have?

Yes. The primer would be intact (no dimple) and there would be no hole drilled in the side or BB for the "rattle test."

 

[Gardenista]

What a freaking cluster.

 

[10ofRods]

The cluster gets worse:

‘Rust’: Warrant Sheds Light on How Alleged Live Ammo Ended Up On Set – The Hollywood Reporter

As I read this, HGR's dad, TR, is blaming the armorer SK (the proposed John Doe not yet named in any complaints - he will be after this).

Of course, the FBI will be able to say whether this story remotely checks out. But it does make a kind of sense. I would be happy if someone could weigh in on how they see this cluster.

 

[Gardenista]

More documents released today

DocumentCloud

 

[MsMarple]

The filing indicates that Thell Reed, also an armorer, did not intentionally provide the live rounds, but that ammunition he brought to an earlier, separate production might have made its way to the set of "Rust."
...
Reed told authorities he had brought an "ammo can" of live rounds to another set, earlier in summer, at the request of Seth Kenney, a movie gun supplier who is affiliated with the New Mexico prop firm PDQ Arm & Prop LLC, the target of Tuesday's search warrant.
...
"Thell stated his ammunition may match the ammunition found on the set of 'Rust,'" the affidavit states.
...
The filing states "Rust" prop master Sarah Zachry said the ammunition for that production was from multiple sources, including rounds Gutierrez Reed brought from a previous production and some provided by another person. It's not clear how this narrative fits with the one about live rounds from a previous set.
...
Zachry said she found some cartridges in the box would rattle, which signified them being "dummy rounds," however, others did not, which led her to believe some were live, according to the filing.
Weapons expert points to possible explanation for how live rounds got on 'Rust' set

While adding in negligence from yet another party may mitigate HGR's liability it seems like she's still responsible for loading a live round into the gun. I can't see any way that can't be true. MOO.

 

[CrimeAway]

What a cluster...