Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

[GatorFL]

They ALL made mistakes, were sloppy, and didn't follow protocol.
The armorer, the AD, and the actor all are to blame.

Yet some people are so quick to let Baldwin (actor, producer, owner) completely off the hook. SMH.

imo.

Agreed.

 

[Gardenista]

He supported it. We should also note that the victim herself also supported the walkout but ultimately she also made the decision to stay on set even though she had been campaigning for the cause, does the fact that she stayed on set mean she didn't care either?

Yes, I saw the video the first day we learned about this and gave a major eye roll. If he really supported it, he would have walked off too. Nothing but lip service.

 

[Gardenista]

This is an interesting case, where the perpetrator, Alec Baldwin, has been made into a "victim" by media. The "spin" has been, "ABB" Anyone But Baldwin.

Articles have run the gamut. From blaming the Assistant Director, who has been quoted as saying. "Cold Gun", to focusing on the "Armorer".

One of the first cases I have seen where the actual shooter is deemed completely blameless.

Privilege

 

[SuziQ]

Here it is

Gun in Alec Baldwin Accident Was Also Used Off-Set, Recreationally

Well there ya go. A couple of posters guessed this is what happened.

A rookie mistake is to not check to make sure a round is chambered.

 

[Kiranerys]

Yes, I saw the video the first day we learned about this and gave a major eye roll. If he really supported it, he would have walked off too. Nothing but lip service.

And the victim? She didn't walk off set with her colleagues, she decided to stay and work,although she did post a photo of support,did you roll your eyes at that too?

 

[Dotta]

Yes, I saw the video the first day we learned about this and gave a major eye roll. If he really supported it, he would have walked off too. Nothing but lip service.

Agree!
Words cost nothing - a French song comes to mind:
"Parole, parole, paroles et paroles.." lalala

 

[Deleted member 158085]

This is an interesting case, where the perpetrator, Alec Baldwin, has been made into a "victim" by media. The "spin" has been, "ABB" Anyone But Baldwin.

Articles have run the gamut. From blaming the Assistant Director, who has been quoted as saying. "Cold Gun", to focusing on the "Armorer".

One of the first cases I have seen where the actual shooter is deemed completely blameless.

I don't think this is the case, especially when most of the headlines failed to even use the word "accidental" ahead of "AB shot" or "AB killed".

I also don't think it's the media purposely shifting blame to the AD, because how would they not report the contents of that 911 call where clearly at least some of the crew were laying a good bit of the blame on the AD? That is important to know. Clearly, witnesses believe he really did hand an unchecked gun to AB, declaring it safe and unloaded and that would be a really important bit not to report.

Don't we want to know the real chain of events? And if those events make it seem that multiple people are culpable, well...that's how we eventually get to the truth.

Edited to remove previous post.

 

[Gardenista]

And the victim? She didn't walk off set with her colleagues, she decided to stay and work,although she did post a photo of support,did you roll your eyes at that too?

The victim was not an A list movie star and owner of the production company.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

"Misfire" - is pulling the trigger, expecting the gun to fire, and NOTHING happens. Could be a problem with the weapon, or the ammo.

"Accidental fire" - is when someone fires a weapon when not intended to. Operator error. Like walking around with your finger on the trigger, and.. ooops.

The gun did not "misfire", and really wasn't "accidently" fired. It was fired intentionally, without being checked to see if it was safe.
Single action revolvers don't accidently fire themselves.
The hammer is manually cocked and then the trigger is pulled.

And why the heck was it pointed at a person?

And before someone says that they were filming him shooting at camera... my $500.00 Nikon D3300 has a remote option. You know that those high powered movie cameras have remote options. If that pistol was fired at the camera with a person or persons standing right there, yet another HUGE mistake made by either the person calling the shots.. or the person firing the weapon.. or both.

Many people have many things to answer for.

imo

But you're not a cinematographer. Those folks routinely place themselves behind the camera to see what the shot will look like.

We also don't know what they may have directed him to do. We're making judgments on where he shot at before knowing any of that. He may have not done as directed. Or he may have done exactly as directed.

I'm not clearing or blaming him until we have more answers.

 

[LaborDayRN]

From the article:



So the inexperienced armourer Hannah Gutierrez made a mistake.

I think having four accidental discharges on a set is more than a mistake. I think it rises to gross negligence. IMO something should have been done about these "accidents" before it led to injury and the loss of life. I don't understand why she was still working on the film. The person who was "in charge" on the set should have let her go long before this shooting took place and since that wasn't done I would think that person would be negligent as well.

"A crew member who was alarmed by the misfires told a unit production manager in a text massage, "We've now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe"
'Rust' film crew walked off job over safety concerns hours before Alec Baldwin fired prop gun

 

[SuziQ]

... or pointing it at another human and cocking the hammer and pulling the trigger... whether you thought it was clear or not.

That is apparently standard practice with any gun on a set. And everyone is cleared from the area and remote cameras are used. Why were people even present? I have a feeling that a lot of rules are not followed in many productions. I hope that changes.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Donald Trump Jr hits out at Alec Baldwin after movie set shooting tragedy | The Irish Post

 

[steeltowngirl]

Filmmaker Rachel Morrison questioned the use of real guns during filming.

"Why the f+++ are we still using blanks when it costs like 50 (cents) to add gunfire in post (production)? If you can't afford to make a movie safely, you shouldn't be making it at all."

Grief, anger over death on Alec Baldwin movie - France 24

 

[fred&edna]

Assistant Director on 'Rust' Who Gave Alec Baldwin Gun Had Safety Issues, Prior Crew Claims


The assistant director on the set of "Rust" who told Alec Baldwin the prop gun he was about to fire was safe has allowed an unsafe working environment on previous productions ... this according to someone who worked with him on a previous production.

Propmaker Maggie Goll worked with A.D. Dave Halls in 2019 on Hulu's "Into the Dark" series. She says, "At first he seemed like an older, affable first [A.D.] with the usual run of idiosyncrasies, but that facade soon disappeared," adding, "He did not maintain a safe working environment."

 

[Trebor5591]

Is TMZ considered to be mainstream Media? Because they have posted a story saying that the gun Alix Baldwin accidentally shot his Director of Photography with, was also being used by cast members after hours with live ammunition for target practice. This is, IMO, how the live ammo was placed in the gun. Then the Armoror and the Assistant Director both failed to check the gun, and the "hot gun" was placed into Alex's hands by the AD. If TMZ is not accepted, I apologise. Please remove the link.

Gun in Alec Baldwin Accident Was Also Used Off-Set, Recreationally

 

[steeltowngirl]

But you're not a cinematographer. Those folks routinely place themselves behind the camera to see what the shot will look like.

We also don't know what they may have directed him to do. We're making judgments on where he shot at before knowing any of that. He may have not done as directed. Or he may have done exactly as directed.

I'm not clearing or blaming him until we have more answers.

Exactly. Until the investigation is complete, we cannot know if one person is responsible. It’s possible it is the shooter’s fault, it’s possible it is the armourer’s fault, or the AD’s fault, or any and/or all of them - and more.

I liken this situation to a plane crash. The pilot is behind the controls, but rarely is a crash attributed solely to pilot error. There are other factors to consider.

Halyna’s life was extinguished. Her husband and son will never see her again.

There are many people that have some explaining to do.

 

[Trebor5591]

I think having four accidental discharges on a set is more than a mistake. I think it rises to gross negligence. IMO something should have been done about these "accidents" before it led to injury and the loss of life. I don't understand why she was still working on the film. The person who was "in charge" on the set should have let her go long before this shooting took place and since that wasn't done I would think that person would be negligent as well.

"A crew member who was alarmed by the misfires told a unit production manager in a text massage, "We've now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe"
'Rust' film crew walked off job over safety concerns hours before Alec Baldwin fired prop gun

I would like to make the point that, so far as I know, there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge". The correct term is "negligent discharge". A gun never "accidentally" fires itself. The trigger must be pulled, or in the case of a single action revolver, the hammer must be pulled back and then released. This never happens accidentally, someone needs to do it manually. Guns do not fire themselves.

 

[fred&edna]

Unless it is required for the actor to check the gun he has been handed to use in a movie scene (rehearsal or otherwise), I really don't see AB taking the biggest fall here. El Dorado Productions is not one of the biggest production companies backing this film... BondIt (and sister company) likely provided the largest portion of the funding. Dave Halls (A.D.) should face the greatest penalties in this terribly sad injury and loss of life. jmo

Also, I too can equate this to working in the medical field (as others have). A surgeon doesn't examine each implement before heading into surgery to make sure it's sterile... he "trusts" those having that responsibility. So... in most cases the hospital or surgery center takes the legal/financial brunt of anything that goes wrong. (again jmo)

 

[Gardenista]

Alec Baldwin ignored No. 1 rule of gun safety, expert says

Alec Baldwin, who accidentally killed his cinematographer on the set of his film “Rust,” should have never pointed a gun at another human, even if he believed it was safe, Hollywood safety experts told The Post.

“Loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being,” Hollywood firearms consultant Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services told The Post.

For safety, all live firearms used in TV and film productions are typically aimed at a dummy point, not at equipment, cast or crew, Carpenter noted. Guns, he said, are never aimed at a person.

“You never let the muzzle of a weapon cover something you don’t intend to destroy,” said Carpenter, whose New Orleans-based firm has worked on the sets of scores of TV and film productions. “All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

 

[mickey2942]

I would like to make the point that, so far as I know, there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge". The correct term is "negligent discharge". A gun never "accidentally" fires itself. The trigger must be pulled, or in the case of a single action revolver, the hammer must be pulled back and then released. This never happens accidentally, someone needs to do it manually. Guns do not fire themselves.

Actually, gun manufacturers have been sued for this very issue, with several types of guns. Defect in manufacturing. However, that is not the case here. And a side issue.