All About Chloroform#2

[Salem]

Has anyone read, in all the chloroform searches that are going on, that continual use of chloroform may result in hair loss?

I searched for "chloroform side effects" but all I really got back was the typical stuff about it knocks you out and causes liver damage. I could find anything that talked about side effects if you use it over and over again.

Anyone out there, see anything?

Thanks,

Salem

 

[technicalconfusion]

I did some research on the synthesis of chloroform. She did not PURCHASE OR MAKE CHLOROFORM. It occurred naturally:
By DROWNING HER IN THE POOL.

I'm sure that it is in this thread somewhere ... but this is what I found that convinced me it wasn't "accidental chloroform" ... I don't know where they got the information from ... maybe we will find out soon!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/26/ng.01.html


NATISHA LANCE, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE: Well, there were searches for chloroform on the computer. The chloroform that was found in the trunk, experts have said that it was in such a pure form that it couldn`t have come from any type of cleaning solvent or anything like that. It had to have come from a pure form of chloroform itself.

As well, I believe on another night they were discussing this and the expert = don't remember who it was said you would have to have alot of urine in order to make chloraform. LP went with this theory for awhile.

 

[kam99]

What puzzles me about this is after June 15, Casey had one week of full access to AH's car and one week full access to AL's Jeep. She also had full access to AH's bank account and at least $1,400. So, why??? why??? didn't she flee using one of their vehicles? What more perfect time than that to secretly drive out of Orlando in the vehicle of someone who is out of town, so it wouldn't be noticed by the owner? Drive to another state, pay cash for gasoline until you get to a good place where the vehicle could be ditched in a body of water, then walk to a bus station and pay cash for a bus ticket to California or where ever you want to go and disappear off the face of the earth? Something here just doesn't quite make sense. She WAS trying to get gas for her own car when it was at the Amscot, but failed to do so. Then it was towed. But she had two excellent opportunities to disappear. So what was keeping her in Orlando?

her boyfriend was one reason for her to stay in Orlando a bit longer

 

[lizzysf]

As well, I believe on another night they were discussing this and the expert = don't remember who it was said you would have to have alot of urine in order to make chloraform. LP went with this theory for awhile.

Maybe, but methane gas is also released from putrification of the body.

chlorine soaked diaper (wet for days) + methane= chloroform

Closed in a trunk for days gathering fumes. Yet as they say..maggots and flies lived through it...so how "pure and concentrated" could it have been? Not very, is my guess.

I have sent several emails to science experts (Scientific American, CNN, and Arizona State University) before I agree. I want to get multiple replies on that before I am convinced.

 

[ShowerSinger]

So chloroform was searched on a computer. Was is determined what date that was searched? I was just wondering because another case comes to mind where a person watched a tv show, and got the "idea" from a show. So just wondered, if at around the time little Caylee disappeared if there was some show on tv that showed the use of chloroform...kinda where Cayce got the idea? Just grasping. I can't fathom how this young "mother" could pull this off without seeing something on television as to how to do it. (But maybe that fired cop knew? I dunno.) Sorry if this has already been brought up.

 

[DADSGIRL4EVER]

I cannot make sense of this at all. When it seems I get a handle on it, something comes to mind that throws it all up in the air again. I just can't reconcile what was reported with what makes sense.

1. The amount found in the car at first was trace amounts then it became substantial amounts. The only place I can find the change is on NG. She claims it came from Feds / FBI. I have found no other sources during this timeline that explain the change from trace amounts to substantial amounts.

2. Chloroform was in pure form. Chloroform is actually a result of a mixture of chemicals. How can it be pure.

3. The amount in the car would have prevented anyone from being in the car for any length of time without passing out yet there were flies and maggots found alive in the car.

I still believe this was George trying to clean the smell out of the car. He could very well have looked it up on the computer before LE took custody of the car.

Please go gentle on me. I have read everything and have watched everything on this case from day one. I am an inteligent person. I just think that this may have been misreported along the way.

Thank you for any help you can give me on this.

 

[ArtichokeHeart]

I cannot make sense of this at all. When it seems I get a handle on it, something comes to mind that throws it all up in the air again. I just can't reconcile what was reported with what makes sense.

1. The amount found in the car at first was trace amounts then it became substantial amounts. The only place I can find the change is on NG. She claims it came from Feds / FBI. I have found no other sources during this timeline that explain the change from trace amounts to substantial amounts.

2. Chloroform was in pure form. Chloroform is actually a result of a mixture of chemicals. How can it be pure.

3. The amount in the car would have prevented anyone from being in the car for any length of time without passing out yet there were flies and maggots found alive in the car.

I still believe this was George trying to clean the smell out of the car. He could very well have looked it up on the computer before LE took custody of the car.

Please go gentle on me. I have read everything and have watched everything on this case from day one. I am an inteligent person. I just think that this may have been misreported along the way.

Thank you for any help you can give me on this.

Someone had to have an interest in chloroform in order to look it up. Since I have thought all along that it was George who used it to clean out the car i also think George already knew about it as a cleaning deoderizing agent and so went on line to order it. Did Casey order it or did her father? Did anyone actually purchase it on-line? Casey would have used her mother's credit card...George would have used his own. Every company generates an automatic receipt of purchase email so there would be a record and also possibly a tracking number so the date of delivery could be determined. And if it wasn't bought on-line then where did it come from? it is also possible to do an on-line search for a product and then place a call-in order;that way the computer would not have a record of it. Would have to question us postal service for deliveries to their address. How would a chemical like chloroform be shipped? Wouldn't it have to be signed for upon delivery?

It is so incriminating that Cindy won't turn over financial records. Even so can't these statements be supenaed ?

 

[Pink Panther]

To me, chloroform and the fact that it is not readily and commercially available wreaks of premeditation. On top of that - I think that she (KC) had numerous options other than this illegal and banned substance available to her - to kill her daughter. Chloroform is the only reason I still think that perhaps her plan included her parents as well.

 

[tiffertots]

I have a few questions if anyone would like to oblidge...

1. Does anyone know when was the chloroform search was done?
2. Was it a search FOR chloroform or ABOUT chloroform?
3. Is chloroform used by forensics to extract DNA?
4. Is it absolutely impossible for flies to live in the trunk with the saturation of chloroform being as high as was claimed?

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Maybe, but methane gas is also released from putrification of the body.

chlorine soaked diaper (wet for days) + methane= chloroform

Closed in a trunk for days gathering fumes. Yet as they say..maggots and flies lived through it...so how "pure and concentrated" could it have been? Not very, is my guess.

I have sent several emails to science experts (Scientific American, CNN, and Arizona State University) before I agree. I want to get multiple replies on that before I am convinced.

Maggots (larvae) do not die from chloroform unless it is poured directly on them as a liquid. Then they would only "let loose" of the body.

Maybe GA had a trunk of maggots and was looking for a way to kill them. The date of the search is the key to this one.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I have a few questions if anyone would like to oblidge...

1. Does anyone know when was the chloroform search was done?
2. Was it a search FOR chloroform or ABOUT chloroform?
3. Is chloroform used by forensics to extract DNA?
4. Is it absolutely impossible for flies to live in the trunk with the saturation of chloroform being as high as was claimed?

Chloroform MANY years ago was used in labs. Hasn't been except in small labs MAYBE for years.

No, it would not be impossible - the flies could have lived with chloroform. Even if it killed the adult ones the larvae would not be affected by the fumes and would hatch out to become adults.

I don't know about the first two questions.

 

[seekingjustice**]

To me, chloroform and the fact that it is not readily and commercially available wreaks of premeditation. On top of that - I think that she (KC) had numerous options other than this illegal and banned substance available to her - to kill her daughter. Chloroform is the only reason I still think that perhaps her plan included her parents as well.

I agree with you PP.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

Chloroform is used in purifying DNA (removes any contaminats)

 

[DADSGIRL4EVER]

I am wondering who it was that found the chloroform. I thought they said it was the FBI not the Body farm. I know the Body farm was testing the air. Posters have been talking about it being a vapor. Wouldn't this have been found in the air test then? I am not sure where the chloroform as a vapor came from.

Can anyone clarify. TIA

 

[EastSideOfSaddness]

Chloroform MANY years ago was used in labs. Hasn't been except in small labs MAYBE for years.

No, it would not be impossible - the flies could have lived with chloroform. Even if it killed the adult ones the larvae would not be affected by the fumes and would hatch out to become adults.

I don't know about the first two questions.

Also, another thing I was thinking. If the trash bag was tied up and the maggots and flies where inside the bag, wouldn't it protect them against the chloroform as well?

 

[Gaia713]

Someone had to have an interest in chloroform in order to look it up. Since I have thought all along that it was George who used it to clean out the car i also think George already knew about it as a cleaning deoderizing agent and so went on line to order it. Did Casey order it or did her father? Did anyone actually purchase it on-line? Casey would have used her mother's credit card...George would have used his own. Every company generates an automatic receipt of purchase email so there would be a record and also possibly a tracking number so the date of delivery could be determined. And if it wasn't bought on-line then where did it come from? it is also possible to do an on-line search for a product and then place a call-in order;that way the computer would not have a record of it. Would have to question us postal service for deliveries to their address. How would a chemical like chloroform be shipped? Wouldn't it have to be signed for upon delivery?

It is so incriminating that Cindy won't turn over financial records. Even so can't these statements be supenaed ?

I believe that chloroform was used to MAKE cleaning products, but that usage had stopped prior to this. I can't remember where I read that. It's only current use is in laboratory work and rent-a-cops don't usually have anything to do with lab work. Given Casey's computer usage, I don't think there was any opportunity for anyone else to use "her" computer. If chloroform WAS purchased, it would be traceable to that person. That may be information that the police have that will come out at trial since nothing has been leaked on it.

 

[porkchop]

I posed the question about the chloroform being used to alter bank checks a few posts back. My question originally came about because I was wondering how one would go about changing a name on a check. > to the chemical Chloroform. I picked up this idea from other posts on this site. See my original Post 186 & 191 this thread for the background.
I finally took the time to do a little digging.
I found that Chloroform has/is used to clean ink printing presses and ink jet applicators and can be used as a spot remover to lift ink from many types of material paper included. I wanted to find something that had a little more in-depth information.
I did find a few web sites that seemed to explain this process but where heavy on chemical formulas. It has been a long time since chemistry class so I gave them a glance over and decided to save myself a headache and went looking for sites that sold checks. Sort of a sideways approach but I figured it was something that could not be done nobody would mention it as part of bragging rights on a product.

So…..

Well as far as using Chloroform to alter checks it must be able to be done. I don’t know the exact method yet of how it is done but appears that it can be. This is a website that sells checks that have been made with specialty treated paper that would show if there was any attempt to alter the checks by various methods including using chemicals.

One of the chemicals listed is Chloroform as well as interesting enough gasoline.

Chemical Sensitivity in five families prevents attempts at chemical alteration by staining the document. Discoloration appears on check if altered by the following:
With quality manufactured and security enhanced check stocks. Check stock offers a
broad range of security features that work together to protect your payments
from photocopying or chemical alterations.
Chlorine Bleach
Acids – Sulfuric, Hydrochloric, Nitric
Alkalis – Sodium Hydroxide, Potash
Polar Solvents – Alcohol, Acetone,
Methanol, Ethanol
Non-Polar Solvents – Gasoline,
Chloroform, Benzene, White Spirits
http://www.payformance.com/documents/Secure Check Stock.pdf

This does not answer the question of what Casey may or may not have been actually doing with chloroform but it looks like ‘lifting ink from checks’ can be added to list.

Yes. This. I completly forgot that chloroform could be used for this until I read your post. I grew up with a guy years ago that is doing time for doing just this, that is how I know chloroform can be used for altering checks.

Now I think the choloroform wasn't used to kill Caylee, but either in meth production or for altering checks and the bottle may have spilled in her trunk

 

[Bev]

Gas spectrometers such as those used at the Body Farm/FBI lab measure vapourized gases - when they take an "air sample" they measure the density of the vapourized gases in the air. Gases are light or heavy - gases such as helium/ether are relatively light while gases such as chlorine and methane are heavy. The air is saturated with gases - because some gases are heavy, they can become "trapped" in enclosed spaces.

When the BodyFarm/FBI "measures" gases in the air, they are measuring the weight, density and volume of the vapourized gases - if the chlorine, methane and bromines peaked at the levels of parts known to make chloroform, then the result is that chloroform was a gas measured in the air sample. Experts can argue that those parts in those levels exist only in manufactured chloroform, but other experts will argue that the trunk was closed and heated and those gases combined to form chloroform.

As yet, no one has proffered any evidence that there "were searches for chloroform" on any computer owned by the Anthonys. If there was a search it could easily be explained that KC found it on Ricardo Morales' page and clicked on his ad. Until receipts are found proving that KC bought chloroform, I believe that the most likely explanation for the chloroform vapours found in the trunk is the best explanation.

p.s. Chloroform is not used to clean inkjet printers either commercially or by home printers. It is not used in the manufacturing of methamphetamines.

 

[Pink Panther]

You know, the more I think about all of this, the more I think that the chloroform thing is really strange! I've googled it and tried to find information on it and despite what has been said, it's really not that easy to find useable information on it! Where on earth did it come from? Whether KC used it before or after - doesn't really explain where it came from! From everything I have been able to find, it's not readily available - at least not to someone like her...WHERE did it come from? Could she really have made it herself? It's just so strange, of all substances, for her to have picked this one!

 

[lizzysf]

You know, the more I think about all of this, the more I think that the chloroform thing is really strange! I've googled it and tried to find information on it and despite what has been said, it's really not that easy to find useable information on it! Where on earth did it come from? Whether KC used it before or after - doesn't really explain where it came from! From everything I have been able to find, it's not readily available - at least not to someone like her...WHERE did it come from? Could she really have made it herself? It's just so strange, of all substances, for her to have picked this one!

I don't think she did use it. It was naturally derived from chlorine in the diaper/clothes/hair/body(pool drowning) and urine/feces/body putrification (Methane present in all 3)= Chloroform which would have gathered as a gas in the trunk. The diaper would have been wet for days and all of these fluids would have soaked into the floor of the trunk. I think that the search for chloroform was random after seeing RM's myspace pic and oddly enough, unrelated. I posted this before and was told the "experts" said no. But I reviewed what I could find from the "experts" and the possibility of chlorine from the pool combined with methane from the body was never mentioned.