All About Chloroform#2

[ArtichokeHeart]

I find it intresting that exposure to vaporized chloroform can casue sinus problems and on one of the receipts involved in the theft/forgery charges, Casey was purchasing some sinus type medications- I beleive it was sudafed!

Wasn't she complaining of a sinus problem or cold in text messages to AH as well?

I don't know, it just seems odd to me that she would be able to get chloroform...can you just buy this stuff at a store?[/QUOTE]


One of the NG producers tried and she did it without a hassel.

 

[Pink Panther]

Chemist Jeff Flowers, who has testified in state and federal court as an expert, said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from anything else -- not cleaning products, not human body fluids or a mixture of anything else.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," Flowers said.

Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform, WESH 2's Bob Kealing reported.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible," Flowers said.

Flowers said chloroform can be found in very small amounts in everyday liquid cleaning products. But, he said, chloroform cannot vaporize or get in to the air unless large amounts of it are present.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17397494/detail.html

The chloroform is such a bizarre twist, an anomaly so to speak, that if there is an accomplice of some sort, I believe it may be tied to this. If not, then she either:

1. purchased it online (which should be traceable)
2. made it herself (again, looking up instructions should be traceable)
3. stole it from somewhere (but where???)

MOO

 

[Dutchie Treat]

Maybe Ricardo gave her the idea and she researched it later.

If she had been using anything to drug Caylee in the past (Xanax, Benadryl, what have you...) she may have thought "wow this sounds nifty" and tried it out on her.

Xanax is only on prescription and maybe chloroform is cheap??

 

[insatiable]

If she did indeed buy it online I wonder how long she was planning to do this. The whole thing is crazy but this chloroform is the craziest part of it to me. Seems like alot of trouble to go through to make your kid sleep so you could go out to party.....also seems like alot of trouble to go through if she had been planning to kill her this way. So bizarre.

 

[Pink Panther]

If she did indeed buy it online I wonder how long she was planning to do this. The whole thing is crazy but this chloroform is the craziest part of it to me. Seems like alot of trouble to go through to make your kid sleep so you could go out to party.....also seems like alot of trouble to go through if she had been planning to kill her this way. So bizarre.

Exactly. This is why I can't get my head around it! It had to be an "opportunistic" thing that happened...I just can't see her bothering with all of it when there are much simpler solutions to the same end! I keep thinking that she must have stolen it from somewhere...

 

[Bev]

This seems to be eluding some posters - chloroform is a gas created from chlorine, bromines and methane/ethanol (alcohol)/acetone (nail polish remover). It is made by heating those gases together.

There is no such thing as "pure chloroform" because chloroform is a combination of gases, it is not in and of itself a gas such as hydrogen or methane. The gas chromotography/spectrometer measures the levels or saturation of the air with gases. Chloroform is correctly identified as trichloromethane and methyl trichloride, it is also a in a subset known as trihalomethanes which is a by product of chlorinated water. It is produced by heating a mixture of chlorine and methane in which a series of chemical reactions occur and then distilled out to form trichloromethane.

Manufacturers use chlorine bleach powder and methane - now where would you find high concentrations of chlorine bleach powder? Pool chemicals. Where would you find a high concentration of methane? Decaying bodies. Combined and heated in a trunk in Fl. in June/July the air sample could give the false/positive that chloroform was used.

I am not saying that KC did not use chloroform, I am saying that there is a likelier explanation for the presence of chloromethane in the trunk of that car.

 

[sha-sha]

That's a lot of information! I agree with you that that is a likelier scenario, but what about the internet searches? If they were before July 15th, that throws a wrench into the accidental/incidental "creation" of chloroform theory. moo

 

[OpenMind4U]

This seems to be eluding some posters - chloroform is a gas created from chlorine, bromines and methane/ethanol (alcohol)/acetone (nail polish remover). It is made by heating those gases together.

There is no such thing as "pure chloroform" because chloroform is a combination of gases, it is not in and of itself a gas such as hydrogen or methane. The gas chromotography/spectrometer measures the levels or saturation of the air with gases. Chloroform is correctly identified as trichloromethane and methyl trichloride, it is also a in a subset known as trihalomethanes which is a by product of chlorinated water. It is produced by heating a mixture of chlorine and methane in which a series of chemical reactions occur and then distilled out to form trichloromethane.

Manufacturers use chlorine bleach powder and methane - now where would you find high concentrations of chlorine bleach powder? Pool chemicals. Where would you find a high concentration of methane? Decaying bodies. Combined and heated in a trunk in Fl. in June/July the air sample could give the false/positive that chloroform was used.

I am not saying that KC did not use chloroform, I am saying that there is a likelier explanation for the presence of chloromethane in the trunk of that car.

Great explanation! Thank you. But what about the searches made for 'chloroform' on her computer? This is the key to chloroform use/purchase...I doubted that someone was searching for chloroform to be use in the pool...

 

[lizzysf]

This seems to be eluding some posters - chloroform is a gas created from chlorine, bromines and methane/ethanol (alcohol)/acetone (nail polish remover). It is made by heating those gases together.

There is no such thing as "pure chloroform" because chloroform is a combination of gases, it is not in and of itself a gas such as hydrogen or methane. The gas chromotography/spectrometer measures the levels or saturation of the air with gases. Chloroform is correctly identified as trichloromethane and methyl trichloride, it is also a in a subset known as trihalomethanes which is a by product of chlorinated water. It is produced by heating a mixture of chlorine and methane in which a series of chemical reactions occur and then distilled out to form trichloromethane.

Manufacturers use chlorine bleach powder and methane - now where would you find high concentrations of chlorine bleach powder? Pool chemicals. Where would you find a high concentration of methane? Decaying bodies. Combined and heated in a trunk in Fl. in June/July the air sample could give the false/positive that chloroform was used.

I am not saying that KC did not use chloroform, I am saying that there is a likelier explanation for the presence of chloromethane in the trunk of that car.

Exactly! My theory as well. If she temporarily buried her in the backyard too, she may have thrown a few scoops of pool chemicals in there too to keep the odor down. It is hard for people to believe, because of the search for chloroform on the computer, but I think it was just an anomaly as well....she only searched because of Ricardos myspace. And, yes, the term "pure" chloroform is a misnomer, it is a gas resulting from the combination of the chlorine, methane, heat in the trunk. It is "pure", to use that term... period.

 

[FifthEssence]

Exactly! My theory as well. If she temporarily buried her in the backyard too, she may have thrown a few scoops of pool chemicals in there too to keep the odor down. It is hard for people to believe, because of the search for chloroform on the computer, but I think it was just an anomaly as well....she only searched because of Ricardos myspace. And, yes, the term "pure" chloroform is a misnomer, it is a gas resulting from the combination of the chlorine, methane, heat in the trunk. It is "pure", to use that term... period.

Please refer to the posts by TURBOTHINK with possible senarios as to how A LARGE AMOUNT of CHLORINE mixed with her body fluids/gases might create the chloroform gas.
REFERNCE:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...t=72575&page=6
the Psychic Discussion: Visions, Dreams, And Impressions thread starting w/post #139

 

[lizzysf]

Please refer to the posts by TURBOTHINK with possible senarios as to how A LARGE AMOUNT of CHLORINE mixed with her body fluids/gases might create the chloroform gas.
REFERNCE:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...t=72575&page=6
the Psychic Discussion: Visions, Dreams, And Impressions thread starting w/post #139

Thanks, I saw that too. I think he is on to something. She may have mixed a concentrated solution of water and pool chlorine chemicals to pour in the trunk to kill the smell too...thnking it would act like chlorine bleach...but without leaving a bleach stain. Who knows!

 

[insatiable]

This seems to be eluding some posters - chloroform is a gas created from chlorine, bromines and methane/ethanol (alcohol)/acetone (nail polish remover). It is made by heating those gases together.

There is no such thing as "pure chloroform" because chloroform is a combination of gases, it is not in and of itself a gas such as hydrogen or methane. The gas chromotography/spectrometer measures the levels or saturation of the air with gases. Chloroform is correctly identified as trichloromethane and methyl trichloride, it is also a in a subset known as trihalomethanes which is a by product of chlorinated water. It is produced by heating a mixture of chlorine and methane in which a series of chemical reactions occur and then distilled out to form trichloromethane.

Manufacturers use chlorine bleach powder and methane - now where would you find high concentrations of chlorine bleach powder? Pool chemicals. Where would you find a high concentration of methane? Decaying bodies. Combined and heated in a trunk in Fl. in June/July the air sample could give the false/positive that chloroform was used.

I am not saying that KC did not use chloroform, I am saying that there is a likelier explanation for the presence of chloromethane in the trunk of that car.

That definitely sounds more likely than her buying chloroform......from everything I have read it seems most logical that the chloroform came from chlorine & decomp.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

Could the chloroform have been in the soil sample or left from the soil found in the trunk?

 

[FifthEssence]

Could the chloroform have been in the soil sample or left from the soil found in the trunk?

IMO would not be enough to create notable chloroform.

TURBOTHINK's theory implies a saturation of chlorine.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

IMO would not be enough to create notable chloroform.

TURBOTHINK's theory implies a saturation of chlorine.

Wasn't there something said about it being pure chloroform?

 

[Pink Panther]

Chemist Jeff Flowers, who has testified in state and federal court as an expert, said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from anything else -- not cleaning products, not human body fluids or a mixture of anything else.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," Flowers said.

Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform, WESH 2's Bob Kealing reported.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible," Flowers said.

Flowers said chloroform can be found in very small amounts in everyday liquid cleaning products. But, he said, chloroform cannot vaporize or get in to the air unless large amounts of it are present.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17397494/detail.html

What about this then?

 

[FifthEssence]

AutomaticAuttie...scroll back up a few posts to #306 from Bev as to 'pure' chloroform

 

[Bev]

I wonder if the information that "pure chloroform" was found is actually true. There is no way of knowing that until the written report is submitted and is disseminated to the public. Very often in high profile cases such as these, people will hear part of one discussion or read part of a report and make assumptions based on information they didn't quite understand. When reporters say a "source close to the investigation" that could be anyone from the janitor to the lead detective.

It isn't altogether easy to ship tricholoromethane either - it is a carcinogen, it is a hazmat shipment so there are many restrictions on shipping the product. Most manufacturers require a minimum amount for shipment. This is probably the easiest part of this case to solve - ask chemical producers who ship in miniscule amounts to check records to see who might have purchased and received a shipment in the Orlando area for a certain time period.

 

[FifthEssence]

Take a look here: http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/chemicals/cn/Chloroform.html
quote:
Identifications
Formula: CHCl3
Elements: Carbon, Chlorine, Hydrogen
CAS Number: 67-66-3
Caswell Number: 192
RCRA Waste Number: U044
RTECS Number: FS9100000
Synonyms/Related:
1,1,1-Trichloromethane
c0595
C13827
Chloroform
Chloroform [UN1888] [Poison]
Chloroforme
Chloroforme [French]
Cloroformio
Cloroformio [Italian]
Formyl trichloride
Freon 20 ®
methane trichloride
Methane trichloride
Methane, trichloro-
Methenyl chloride
Methenyl trichloride
Methyl trichloride
qC`XBHTQhaIj`@
R 20
R 20 (Refrigerant)
Refrigerant R20
Trichloormethaan
Trichloormethaan [Dutch]
Trichlormethan
Trichlormethan [Czech]
Trichloroform
Trichloromethane
Triclorometano
Triclorometano [Italian]
Properties
Incompatiblities:
aluminum
chemically-active metals
magnesium powder
potassium
sodium
strong caustics
strong oxidizers

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

AutomaticAuttie...scroll back up a few posts to #306 from Bev as to 'pure' chloroform

Thanks!