All About Chloroform #3

[Robinez]

For fair arguments sake, I believe it is an ingrediant in carpet cleaner such as "resolve". Possible one of the cleaning agents that G and C used to clean the car. Just trying to be fair here.

Fair is fair But it still doesn't "resolve" (pun intended) the fact that chloroform was also researched on the home computer.

TC, Robin

 

[Phoebeb]

I just searched google for chloroform recipes. Ingredients: bleach, acetone, ice. It doesn't keep for over a week, needs to be mixed in glass so you can see the sediment form, stored in a dark bottle. It really didn't look that complicated to make. And we know ICA had plenty of time on her hands to make a batch once a week or as needed.

 

[crucibelle]

I just searched google for chloroform recipes. Ingredients: bleach, acetone, ice. It doesn't keep for over a week, needs to be mixed in glass so you can see the sediment form, stored in a dark bottle. It really didn't look that complicated to make. And we know ICA had plenty of time on her hands to make a batch once a week or as needed.

Did you read about the distilling process? After those ingredients are mixed, there are just tiny bubbles of chloroform on the bottom of the container, underneath two other layers of liquid. The chloroform has to be distilled from the other liquid, somehow. It would be a very tedious and time consuming activity to undertake. That part seems pretty complicated, to me. Not to mention, if you don't keep it the right temp (cold enough) when mixing, a disaster can ensue. There's no way KC made chloroform, IMO.

Edit: I just wanted to reiterate that making chloroform is not a matter of mixing a + b + c and BAM!, you have chloroform. It's a much more involved process than that.

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

I have struggled with believing ICA truly used chloroform on Caylee. It seems so ... difficult! But then the testimony that chloroform levels in the trunk were out of this world high and Febreeze didn't cause it ... and they didn't have a chlorinated pool. I'm left with feeling like she must have used chloroform! What other explanation is there with those results - coupled with the google searches?

Once I truly gave in to the chloroform bandwagon, I decided she had to have stolen it. I can't see her making a batch of it. Did she wear goggles???? Where did she store it????

She stole money freely. I guess it isn't a stretch that she could steal chloroform.

This case is fascinating because duct tape and chloroform have never really come up in the news as a means for killing someone! How did she come to this??? (million dollar question, I know!)

 

[Tuffy]

I have struggled with believing ICA truly used chloroform on Caylee. It seems so ... difficult! But then the testimony that chloroform levels in the trunk were out of this world high and Febreeze didn't cause it ... and they didn't have a chlorinated pool. I'm left with feeling like she must have used chloroform! What other explanation is there with those results - coupled with the google searches?

Once I truly gave in to the chloroform bandwagon, I decided she had to have stolen it. I can't see her making a batch of it. Did she wear goggles???? Where did she store it????

She stole money freely. I guess it isn't a stretch that she could steal chloroform.

This case is fascinating because duct tape and chloroform have never really come up in the news as a means for killing someone! How did she come to this??? (million dollar question, I know!)

I did read a news story about a woman in the UK that kidnapped and killed her husband, using chloroform and hydrochloric acid.

ETA - she was a lab tech, and got the chemicals from work.

 

[Jolynna]

Did you read about the distilling process? After those ingredients are mixed, there are just tiny bubbles of chloroform on the bottom of the container, underneath two other layers of liquid. The chloroform has to be distilled from the other liquid, somehow. It would be a very tedious and time consuming activity to undertake. That part seems pretty complicated, to me. Not to mention, if you don't keep it the right temp (cold enough) when mixing, a disaster can ensue. There's no way KC made chloroform, IMO.

Maybe her chloroform flopped and didn't turn out as she had hoped? So out came the duct tape. And no sense wasting all that work so the 'not perfect' chloroform went into the trunk (cause ICA was done with it) along with Caylee.

A badly make cake, even if it is flat and hard as a rock will be chemically the same as a Martha Stewart cake prepared with the same ingredients. For some reason KC made an effort to delete all her files before LE got her computer. And it looks like the prosecution is going to try to make a case for chloroform being part of Caylee's murder.

 

[nerdy]

Did you read about the distilling process? After those ingredients are mixed, there are just tiny bubbles of chloroform on the bottom of the container, underneath two other layers of liquid. The chloroform has to be distilled from the other liquid, somehow. It would be a very tedious and time consuming activity to undertake. That part seems pretty complicated, to me. Not to mention, if you don't keep it the right temp (cold enough) when mixing, a disaster can ensue. There's no way KC made chloroform, IMO.

Edit: I just wanted to reiterate that making chloroform is not a matter of mixing a + b + c and BAM!, you have chloroform. It's a much more involved process than that.

I have to agree with all of this. I don't think it's THAT complicated - but compared to just say, buying some Benadryl to knock her out - I can't see ICA going to the effort. I'm science-inclined. I also like to cook. I just wouldn't bother with chloroform.

Yet - it clearly plays in somehow. I just do not get WHERE she got it. And having been in many tattoo parlors and worked in a vet clinic - no, none there.

It actually frus(h)trates me that this mystery hasn't been solved! I want to KNOW already!

 

[shezcrafti]

Can chloroform or a chloroform-like substance be purchased at Home Depot? :waitasec:

 

[Robinez]

I just searched google for chloroform recipes. Ingredients: bleach, acetone, ice. It doesn't keep for over a week, needs to be mixed in glass so you can see the sediment form, stored in a dark bottle. It really didn't look that complicated to make. And we know ICA had plenty of time on her hands to make a batch once a week or as needed.

I just thought of something after reading Baznme's post earlier.

There is chloroform in alot of the chemicals mentioned, fabreeze, resolve, etc.. So, I am thinking, the fact that GA was a true stickler about detailing his cars every weekend maybe there was a buildup of chloroform in the fibers of the carpet from constant application of these products?

I am just wondering if the computer search of chloroform was the starting point in trying to find chloroform everywhere and LE may have lost sight of some other, more important details along the way in their pursuit of chloroform..

We all saw her BF R on the stand talking about his FB pic that included a pic about chlorophorming a gal. The defense could easily come back from the computer search and say she was doing research for his facebook pic and looked up chloroform + pic.

I think they spent way too much time on this particular subject.

TC, Robin

TC, Robin

 

[TwiceIrish]

I'm confused about whether ICA used chloroform at all after hearing Dr. Vass' testimony today. Do you all still think she used additional chloroform because the levels were so high?

I thought Dr. Vass attributed the presence of chloroform in the carpet sample to the early stages of human decomposition.

Here's an excerpt about his testimony:

Vass also spoke about the chemical compounds discovered while testing a sample from the trunk’s carpet. He showed the jury graphs indicating one particularly large peak in the level of chloroform. He said experts in the lab found the amount of chloroform to be “shockingly high,” so they conducted additional testing on it.

He identified chloroform as one of the chemical compounds that they have found to be produced during human decomposition. Prosecutors have also alleged that Casey Anthony researched how to make chloroform on the internet earlier in 2008.

 

[shezcrafti]

I just thought of something after reading Baznme's post earlier.

There is chloroform in alot of the chemicals mentioned, fabreeze, resolve, etc.. So, I am thinking, the fact that GA was a true stickler about detailing his cars every weekend maybe there was a buildup of chloroform in the fibers of the carpet from constant application of these products?

I am just wondering if the computer search of chloroform was the starting point in trying to find chloroform everywhere and LE may have lost sight of some other, more important details along the way in their pursuit of chloroform..

We all saw her BF R on the stand talking about his FB pic that included a pic about chlorophorming a gal. The defense could easily come back from the computer search and say she was doing research for his facebook pic and looked up chloroform + pic.

I think they spent way too much time on this particular subject.

TC, Robin

TC, Robin

I want so much to believe she didn't chloroform that baby, but I can't get past these 3 things:

1. High levels of chloroform in the trunk
2. Searches for "chloroform" and "how to make chloroform" on the computer
3. Gatorade bottle + syringe found near body with traces of chloroform

Individually, maybe. But all together? Very hard for me not to think premeditated murder disguised as a kidnapping.

 

[Beatrice]

I have struggled with believing ICA truly used chloroform on Caylee. It seems so ... difficult! But then the testimony that chloroform levels in the trunk were out of this world high and Febreeze didn't cause it ... and they didn't have a chlorinated pool. I'm left with feeling like she must have used chloroform! What other explanation is there with those results - coupled with the google searches?

Once I truly gave in to the chloroform bandwagon, I decided she had to have stolen it. I can't see her making a batch of it. Did she wear goggles???? Where did she store it????

She stole money freely. I guess it isn't a stretch that she could steal chloroform.

This case is fascinating because duct tape and chloroform have never really come up in the news as a means for killing someone! How did she come to this??? (million dollar question, I know!)

The idea came from her ex Ricardo & His online joke "Win Her Over With Chloroform" (The same as GHB)

Casey goes home and Googles "How to make chloroform"
It's an exact science; many things can go wrong...and did.

http://howtomakechloroform.com/

Everyone has Acetone in their garage

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I want so much to believe she didn't chloroform that baby, but I can't get past these 3 things:

1. High levels of chloroform in the trunk
2. Searches for "chloroform" and "how to make chloroform" on the computer
3. Gatorade bottle + syringe found near body with traces of chloroform

Individually, maybe. But all together? Very hard for me not to think premeditated murder disguised as a kidnapping.

I don't know what to make of the high levels of chloroform in the trunk, but I think she did the search for chloroform on the computer because of her boyfriends computer with the win her over with chloroform on it. As for the syringe+gatorade bottle, I thought the levels of chloroform found in the syringe were actually lower than what you would find in tap water from home.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[Curious Me]

I have no idea, Pheobeb. The poster "Curious Me" mentioned it, and I was just wondering about it. IF ICA got chloroform from a tattoo parlor or a vet, NO, I do not think she obtained it legitimately. I think she probably stole it. The thing is, I wasn't aware that tattoo parlors or vets kept chloroform on hand, which is why I was asking about it.

I just remember this was discussed some time ago on one of the threads. Sorry, my bad memory, I can't confirm if it is true that tattoo parlors or vets actually use chloroform. Ether replaced chloroform in some instances. Does anyone else know which businesses might still use chloroform?

Just a thought, bong cleaners might have odd chemicals.

 

[shezcrafti]

I don't know what to make of the high levels of chloroform in the trunk, but I think she did the search for chloroform on the computer because of her boyfriends computer with the win her over with chloroform on it. As for the syringe+gatorade bottle, I thought the levels of chloroform found in the syringe were actually lower than what you would find in tap water from home.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

BBM. True. However, I wonder if the evidence being left out in the elements and possibly under water for that many months would have changed/affected the chemical levels present in the bottle/syringe? :waitasec:

Perhaps the Gatorade bottle & syringe evidence is completely unrelated, but it just seems too coincidental to me. MOO.

 

[Kat]

I bumped the thread for the bottle. It has 3 theads total. I bumped #3. It dates back to 2008?9 onward. HTH.

 

[Curious Me]

From the U.S. Dept of Labor Occupational Safety and Health Guideline for Chloroform

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/chloroform/recognition.html


The following operations may involve chloroform and lead to worker exposures to this substance:

The manufacture and transportation of chloroform (BBM and RBBM)

Used in manufacture of fluorocarbons (especially chlorodifluoromethane) for refrigerants and aerosol propellants; used in fire extinguishers to lower the freezing temperature of carbon tetrachloride; used in manufacture of fluorocarbon resins, tribromomethane, plastics, and thermally stable polymers; used in the manufacture of artificial silk, floor polishes, dyes, and pesticides Used as an extractant solvent in manufacture of rubber, essential oils, sterols and alkaloids, guttapercha, resins, and in the recovery of fat from waste products
Used in chemical analysis and assays; and in photographic processing
Used as a general solvent of lacquers plastics, dyes, fats, greases, gums, oils, adhesives, and waxes, and in the rubber cleaning and dry cleaning industries
Prior use as an anesthetic has been discontinued and uses in human drugs and cosmetics are now limited to use as a process solvent for final products that contain only residual amounts of chloroform
Used as a fumigant for soil, a mildewicide for tobacco seedlings, a grain fumigant for various stored dry grains, and as an insecticide

 

[mom2pt]

I have always had a hard time believing that ICA used chloroform to kill Caylee. It just seemed like such an odd means of killing a child, when a bottle of benadryl or nyquil would have worked. But I can't get passed the "shockingly high levels" of chloroform in the trunk, and her google searches. She didn't just google how to make it, she also googled death, neck breaking , etc. So, it seems like she was more than just curious about chloroform. She was researching ways to kill, imo. Chloroform is used in kidnapping. So, maybe that is what she had planned all along. I don't thing we will ever know for certain what poor little Caylee endured. Just breaks my heart to think of her final moments on this Earth.

Below is from wikipedia. Perhaps ICA just used common household items to make chloroform.

["Inadvertent formation of chloroform : The haloform reaction can also occur inadvertently in domestic settings. Sodium hypochlorite solution (chlorine bleach) mixed with common household liquids such as acetone, butanone, ethanol, or isopropyl alcohol can produce some chloroform"

 

[shezcrafti]

I have always had a hard time believing that ICA used chloroform to kill Caylee. It just seemed like such an odd means of killing a child, when a bottle of benadryl or nyquil would have worked. But I can't get passed the "shockingly high levels" of chloroform in the trunk, and her google searches. She didn't just google how to make it, she also googled death, neck breaking , etc. So, it seems like she was more than just curious about chloroform. She was researching ways to kill, imo. Chloroform is used in kidnapping. So, maybe that is what she had planned all along. I don't thing we will ever know for certain what poor little Caylee endured. Just breaks my heart to think of her final moments on this Earth.

BBM. We seem to be on the same page. :seeya:

We know Casey is very, ah, how shall I put it...theatrical. IIRC, there was even a thread on these boards dedicated to recognizing KC's flair for the dramatic, such as using Hollywood names for her fictional characters, the "script" nonsense, and the lies that seem to be borrowed from movie & TV show plots.

Given that, I think it's very plausible KC wanted to make Caylee's death look like a kidnapping and simply stole the idea from something she watched. Chloroform is the classic kidnapping knock-you-out-for-a-few-hours substance they always use in the movies.

I do NOT believe KC put a whole lot of effort into researching & making the chloroform itself other than using what she knew from movies combined with her lazy Google searches. To me, these actions are pretty consistent with how she seems to operate: laziness + lying + blame someone else.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Has Triclosan come up on this thread yet? I only really found out about it through trying to figure out the chloroform mystery. Google to read more about this chemical, but basically, it's in everything nowadays including bedding, garbage bags, car interiors, etc. It's the main ingredient in Microban, as well. The concern over this chemical is that when mixed with chlorinated drinking water it produces....wait for it....chloroform. Chloroform is carcinogenic (didn't know that either), but what I've read says that the EPA says that there is little risk to humans from whatever low exposure one might receive from household chemicals, etc. Some toothpastes contain triclosan, for example and so theoretically when you rinse the toothpaste out, a very small amount of chloroform will be released (though not enough to notice), if I am reading all of this right.

However, "normal household use" may not take into account situations like:

Spraying a cleaning agent containing triclosan in your trunk to wash away/mask human decomposition then closing your trunk containing a heated, sealed environment.

Or, if you suppose Caylee DID drown in the pool, was she dripping wet when wrapped in either bedding or a garbage bag that contained triclosan?

http://www.dioxinfacts.org/dioxin_health/dioxin_rumors/triclosan.html