Alleged abuse photos

[kiki the parrot]

The dad seems to be doing enough to tarnish his own image. Honestly, nothing that his ex says is going to make me think any less of him because my opinion isn't that great to begin with. It doesn't matter to me WHAT she accuses him of, at this point it all seems to distract from finding the missing daughter. Just because a poster chooses to say that the focus should be on finding the daughter, it DOES NOT mean that they don't think RJ should be protected from a dangerous situation or that the abuse allegations shouldn't be investigated. Jumping from one poster's statement to our own conclusion about that statement seems to be causing us to misunderstand one another.
From what I've read in all our posts, everyone agrees that abuse allegations should be taken seriously, reported, and investigated. We all agree that RJ should be protected from any abuse. We all agree that Haleigh needs to be found and brought back to a home that is safe from abuse, drugs, etc.
I think the point that is disagreed upon is HOW (public vs. private), WHEN (as soon as it was suspected vs. several months later), and even to WHOM (witnesses reporting to CS vs. reporting directly to authorities) these accusations should have been made. Some posters feel that this is just a shady attempt to get publicity, that it distracts from the search for Haleigh, and that she (and the other witnesses) should have reported it when they first suspected the abuse. Others feel that the mother acted exactly as she should have in order to protect her children and that her intentions are only to ensure the safety of RJ and Haleigh (when and if she comes home).
I guess the only person who knows her true intentions is CS, and I doubt we will ever know which of us analyzed her actions correctly because she will probably never tell us. Therefore, it's not really worth argument and hurt feelings.
Lets remember we are all here for the same purpose and that getting our panties/boxers/briefs (whatever you prefer) in a twist isn't going to help us work together. :grouphug: I will agree to disagree and I apoligise if any of my posts were offensive to anyone. The only person I'm worried about hurting is the person responsible for Haleigh being missing, not any of you guys! :blowkiss:

(bold mine) I appreciate this offering of peace, and am relieved to know that you, at least, do believe this should be investigated. The suggestion I've heard that it is somehow disingenuous to pursue this now because she was previously unsuccessful in convincing authorities of risks in the past and therefore should be discouraged from further pursuing in light of new and corroborating accounts was difficult to comprehend. From all indications, Mom's long had her own concerns about a number of issues re her children's father and reported her concerns but these went unheeded. I still maintain we can not choose our witnesses, nor if or when or under what circumstances legal counsel either believes it worth investigating nor is willing to offer their services. We can find fault w this mother but not too many of us have had to walk in Crystal's shoes. I still maintain we can not always CHOOSE how, or when, or under what heartbreaking circumstances we may be compelled to pursue anew a growing concern of this nature. As for everybody here, I really hope you are right. I too would hope that anyone here would for the children's sake rather err on the side of caution--and have the claims of abuse thoroughly investigated; would agree first priority is the welfare of both children; could acknowledge that under the circumstances, of not only witnesses who are now stepping forward but of a missing child, that it's only rightful that any and all reports be looked into since any child deserves that much; and would concede that because reports of abuse made previously--that may have lacked sufficient corroboration or necessary cooperation by witnesses then thus couldn't be substantiated at that time--would be poor reason to dismiss and risk further failing those same children by not following up now. JMO

arrot:

 

[WICKEDACE]

Okay the pictures I can see being released, but the medical records and the school info, I think that has gone a little far.

There are certain things that the public doesn't need to see in cases and this would be one of them.

Do I think that the kids were abused? I don't know for sure. I can say by looking at the images that you only see Haleigh's face in 1 of the images. The others you can't see a face to even prove who the child was, I'm sure that also plays a huge roll in DCF dismissing the cases. My goodness if anyone ever saw my childrens bruises then I would hate to be turned in for abuse. Kids are kids and they are clumsy and they fall and get cut and other kids hit and kick.. You get the point.

I DO NOT agree with Crystal bringing all of this up right now. Why wait till Haleigh is missing for a month to bring this out? This is something that should have come out in the very beginning if she wanted to start slinging mud IMHO.

I think that Mark Klaas said it well the other night on NG that this is not the time for her to be fighting for Jr. she needs to focus on finding Haleigh and then focus on custody after they find out where / what happened to Haleigh.

 

[fortytwo]

(bold mine) I appreciate this offering of peace, and am relieved to know that you, at least, do believe this should be investigated. The suggestion I've heard that it is somehow disingenuous to pursue this now because she was previously unsuccessful in convincing authorities of risks in the past and therefore should be discouraged from further pursuing in light of new and corroborating accounts was difficult to comprehend. From all indications, Mom's long had her own concerns about a number of issues re her children's father and reported her concerns but these went unheeded. I still maintain we can not choose our witnesses, nor if or when or under what circumstances legal counsel either believes it worth investigating nor is willing to offer their services. We can find fault w this mother but not too many of us have had to walk in Crystal's shoes. I still maintain we can not always CHOOSE how, or when, or under what heartbreaking circumstances we may be compelled to pursue anew a growing concern of this nature. As for everybody here, I really hope you are right. I too would hope that anyone here would for the children's sake rather err on the side of caution--and have the claims of abuse thoroughly investigated; would agree first priority is the welfare of both children; could acknowledge that under the circumstances, of not only witnesses who are now stepping forward but of a missing child, that it's only rightful that any and all reports be looked into since any child deserves that much; and would concede that because reports of abuse made previously--that may have lacked sufficient corroboration or necessary cooperation by witnesses then thus couldn't be substantiated at that time--would be poor reason to dismiss and risk further failing those same children by not following up now. JMO

arrot:

(bold above by me)

Such a suggestion would indeed be reprehensible. In the face of it I would stand shoulder to shoulder with you to vigorously defend Crystal's right to pursue such concerns. In fact, I do.

Please direct me to exactly where these suggestions were made so that I can provide my support in this serious matter.

 

[Bobbisangel]

At the time, Cyrstal may have believed Ronald's account of the injuries on Haleigh's face. But to be sure she contacted CPS.

According to reports, new information from various witnesses has been forthcoming that is causing her to seriously question and revisit these incidents. She now feels CPS didn't investigate thoroughly. She wants them to be reinvestigated. She is taking the correct course in doing this.


If there are witnesses who support this evidence by their eyewitness accounts,this adds a lot more weight. JMO.

I believe that Nancy Grace has a report from the school that Haleigh attended. The report was made the day the accident happened and does state that Haleigh fell off of the monkey bars. She did get a cut on her nose and I would imagine the scrape on her face came from the fall too. The black eye didn't come right away...they usually don't...but did show up later.

Ron is being accused of hitting Haleigh in the face and giving her the scrape and black eye. It is no wonder Child Protective Services came back saying that there was no proof that Ron had hit Haleigh. They would have read the report from the school too. If Ron had hit Haleigh he would have had to hold her still so that he could hit her exactly in the same places that were cut and scraped when she fell from the monkey bars. Seems like it would be kind of hard to make sure that one hit on top of the other looked just like a scrape and the other hit on top of the other looked just like a cut. And then the black eye exactly on top in the exact place as the other black areas. I think that would be impossible. As much as Crystal wants people to believe that Ron did the damage to Haleigh's face a person would have to be a little dim to believe that.

Child Protective Services is going to have to have more proof then a pic of Haleigh sporting a cut, bruise, and black eye that she got at school. It wasn't Crystal that took those pictures it was a relative. Did the relative know about Haleigh's fall from the monkey bars? Probably not. I think that Crystal thinks she sees a chance to blame Ron for abuse now that Haleigh is missing and now that this attorney has appeared out of no where. I think they are in for a surprise and it won't turn out like Crystal and her attorney have planned.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Take a look at the pictures of Haleigh when the injuries from school had pretty much healed. So what happen after Nov 14th that her face was so swollen? Ron's attorney admitted that the swelling and bruising had subsided. How did Haleigh's face get so bruised and swollen again?

Ronald Cummings' Attorneys Fight Back Against Abuse Allegations -- HOLD
Pictures dated November 14th, five days later. Haleigh's injuries appear better. Cummings' attorneys write, "all the swelling had subsided, with no visible lacerations or bruises."
Cummings' attorneys say he is unaware of injury to Ronald Jr. shown in the photos released by Picazio. http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/amberalerts/news-article.aspx?storyid=134693&catid=295

 

[Busylady]

Indiana found this site

http://www.thesky973.com/pages/4091345.php

scroll down and unzip pics.

 

[Busylady]

It didnt Crystal pic was taken Nov 12. It would be really hard for Ron to beat Haleigh and match the identical cuts that happened from the playground.

It was Nov. 12 when she says Crystal came by to visit her father, Johnny Sheffield, a former sheriff’s deputy and ex-Marine, and brought the children—a week after Haleigh had fallen on the playground at Browning Pierce elementary where she was in kindergarten.
http://www.artharris.com/2009/03/19/do-exclusive-haleigh-cummings-pix-prove-abuse/#more-1290

Take a look at the pictures of Haleigh when the injuries from school had pretty much healed. So what happen after Nov 14th that her face was so swollen? Ron's attorney admitted that the swelling and bruising had subsided. How did Haleigh's face get so bruised and swollen again?

Ronald Cummings' Attorneys Fight Back Against Abuse Allegations -- HOLD
Pictures dated November 14th, five days later. Haleigh's injuries appear better. Cummings' attorneys write, "all the swelling had subsided, with no visible lacerations or bruises."
Cummings' attorneys say he is unaware of injury to Ronald Jr. shown in the photos released by Picazio. http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/amberalerts/news-article.aspx?storyid=134693&catid=295

 

[Law_girl41]

It didnt Crystal pic was taken Nov 12. It would be really hard for Ron to beat Haleigh and match the identical cuts that happened from the playground.

It was Nov. 12 when she says Crystal came by to visit her father, Johnny Sheffield, a former sheriff’s deputy and ex-Marine, and brought the children—a week after Haleigh had fallen on the playground at Browning Pierce elementary where she was in kindergarten.
http://www.artharris.com/2009/03/19/do-exclusive-haleigh-cummings-pix-prove-abuse/#more-1290

I agree Busy- TN was smart to have taken the photos of before & after. Interesting, why didnt they just say that they had these photos to begin with....could of saved US a whole 10 days of arguing. :truce:
*********************************************

So the school incident is now a mute point imo, they cant use this as part of their arguement. Next round....cause its far from over I think.

 

[zadari]

I was a victim of corporal punishment. LOL
I think she meant a switch.
I think RJ is too young to be hit.
I'm not going to start with the spanking argument. I'm torn because sometimes I think society wouldn't be so screwed up if kids had tougher consequences, I don't see anything wrong with being afraid if you misbehave. On the other hand, I don't like to spank my kids.

i do agree that i think kids have gained an upper hand in some instances with the child abuse laws .. i dunno i think the way my mom raised me was find if i behaved i was fine if i didnt do as asked .. then told .. then told once more .. i got spanked .. but she didnt spank us unless we had it coming and it was never with anything exept her open hand on the buttocks
one time a teacher pulled down my pants in the doorway of the classroom and spanked me in 3rd grade mind you .. my unders were still on of course she did this because she thought i was not paying attention and doing my math work but in truth i didnt understand it and the teacher didnt know how to handle that .. but my mom went right in there after she found out and knocked that teacher on her *advertiser censored* .. let me tell you that teacher was nice as pie to me after that lol back then teachers were allowed to spank kids tho

 

[Law_girl41]

Take a look at the pictures of Haleigh when the injuries from school had pretty much healed. So what happen after Nov 14th that her face was so swollen? Ron's attorney admitted that the swelling and bruising had subsided. How did Haleigh's face get so bruised and swollen again?

Ronald Cummings' Attorneys Fight Back Against Abuse Allegations -- HOLD
Pictures dated November 14th, five days later. Haleigh's injuries appear better. Cummings' attorneys write, "all the swelling had subsided, with no visible lacerations or bruises."
Cummings' attorneys say he is unaware of injury to Ronald Jr. shown in the photos released by Picazio. http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/amberalerts/news-article.aspx?storyid=134693&catid=295

Mad- what date did CS step-mother say she took the photo?
ETA: November 12th from the article. IMO TN intentionally took the photos to document the injuries, probably out of fear that this would come up as it was CS weekend soon to come. Interesting.

 

[Indiana at Heart]

Mad- what date did CS step-mother say she took the photo?
ETA: November 12th from the article. IMO TN intentionally took the photos to document the injuries, probably out of fear that this would come up as it was CS weekend soon to come. Interesting.

and the 12th was a Wed so why would CS have the children on a weekday

 

[Busylady]

Only thing I can think of is Crystal was in town to visit her dad, and RC let her take the kids to see him. Which would back up Crystals claim that they got along with each other.

and the 12th was a Wed so why would CS have the children on a weekday

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Indiana found this site

http://www.thesky973.com/pages/4091345.php

scroll down and unzip pics.

Ron's record towards the bottom of that link made my jaw drop. I still believe that the child abuse charges were dropped because they were unfounded, but Ronald has had so many other charges dropped.

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

Spanking starts where adulthood ends.

That's your opinion and way of parenting. I would never bruise my son but I do spank him, just as I'm sure haleigh was spanked. What i Don't believe however is that he caused the first picture. Im sorry he def would have been investigated before now, the school would have called. plus the school says this happened there so thats just a low thing to do IMO.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Was not sure if this should be posted here, the alleged abuse thread or parking lot...?
Haleigh Cummings Pix: Dad Fires Back!
March 28th, 2009 Art Harris
Haleigh Monkey Bar Face Bruises -- Says Dad
http://www.artharris.com/2009/03/

 

[bisaillon]

Okay the pictures I can see being released, but the medical records and the school info, I think that has gone a little far.

There are certain things that the public doesn't need to see in cases and this would be one of them.

Do I think that the kids were abused? I don't know for sure. I can say by looking at the images that you only see Haleigh's face in 1 of the images. The others you can't see a face to even prove who the child was, I'm sure that also plays a huge roll in DCF dismissing the cases. My goodness if anyone ever saw my childrens bruises then I would hate to be turned in for abuse. Kids are kids and they are clumsy and they fall and get cut and other kids hit and kick.. You get the point.

I DO NOT agree with Crystal bringing all of this up right now. Why wait till Haleigh is missing for a month to bring this out? This is something that should have come out in the very beginning if she wanted to start slinging mud IMHO.

I think that Mark Klaas said it well the other night on NG that this is not the time for her to be fighting for Jr. she needs to focus on finding Haleigh and then focus on custody after they find out where / what happened to Haleigh.

I think she's worried about her son now is why she is doing this...can you blame her??

 

[harleysnana]

I think she's worried about her son now is why she is doing this...can you blame her??

Yup she's so worried... she put him on TV and said that he
knows details about the person who took his sissy!
:banghead:

 

[lakelandladi]

I have no problem with a parent wanting to fight for their child. The problem I have is for a parent to do it with bold faced lies. We have all seen far to often fathers being wrongly accused of physical and sexual abuse by ex's. Lives torn apart by lies. Women having DCF at their house day in and day out because their ex accuse them of neglect or abuse.
You want to fight, then fight with the truth not with lies.
I went back over the calender. Crystals visit would have been the weekend of the 7,8,9. Ron has dated pics of Haleigh on the 7th and 9th. In the undated picture that Crystal claims was taken on either the 12th or the 16th...depending on what story you believe...Haleigh is wearing the same shirt as she is wearing in the picture that Ron has dated the 9th. To me it appears that Crystal had the children that weekend, stopped at her dad's on sunday the 9th where the pics were taken, returned the children to Ron, where Ron or TN took pics.
KP really, IMO, led Crystal down the wrong path on this one.

 

[tfrohning]

I post on Cobra thread and i am going to post here,
Do you really think if JR was in danger, that LE,childern Services, FBI would not take that child ASAP, After all he under their watch right now. We need to find Haleigh and put this on back burner, If there is anything to theses picture beside a fall from monkey bar,
Ron would been arrested. JMO

 

[PolyGraph]

I do not start threads often but I have got to ask others what they honestly think of the pic of haleigh with the bruises on her face, (arts website) especially the one where you can see the whole left side of her face and there is this bruise that is way towards the back, does that seem suspicious? because of the location it looks like she may have either had quite a fall and bumped her face in two different places, or those bruises came later. Its the location, it doesnt seem, to me anyway, that all of those bruises came from the same fall, I guess only the witness at the playground could attest to how she fell. (If there was indeed such a witness.) That would be (imoo) the only way the bio mom could prove abuse in those photos, if the teacher said she fell in one spot only and did not roll. If you look at the pic you can see how she would have had to hit something twice, once in the front, (the scrape) and the bruises in the back mean a second hit, Im not an expert so please correct me if Im wrong (I know you all will anyway)