Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #35

[Mani]

My grandchildrens { who go to school with the girls{ father told me the Prado was Allisons and she always drove it. suppose she would use captiva when other was being serviced or whatever .cant comment on seats.

Squizzey, would you agree - that the school is in easy walking distance from their house so why would you use the car??? IMO

 

[Gemini Girl]

Enough people on here have suggested you contact Crimestoppers - why would you not? That small piece of information may be something that fits with another person's information and tells the police something they have been querying.

MOO

Also, in addition - if you are a local - why has it taken you all these months to come on here and ask WS about contacting the police - what have the people supporting you/close to you told you to do? Seems odd to me if no one has suggested you ring the police.

Mani, in defence of the butler, she has since done it. lol

(I know, don't give up my day job)

:floorlaugh: (at my own attempts at humour)

JMO MOO

 

[Makara]

I think someone on here may have suggested or queried whether or not there were missing numbers but there's been nothing that I recall reported in media about it.

I'm not sure where Makara has the info from re the call to OW as I don't think this has been reported in media either.

BBM:

From memory the 6:30am call to OW was mentioned in the bail hearing documents and was posted on the Aussiecrims site. I recall Mountain Misst saying something about OW re-tracing Allison's supposed walking route early on the Friday morning and then a reference to Aussiecrims. I've checked Mountain Misst's previous posts but can't find any mention of that now so it may have been deleted.

MOO.

 

[DrWatson]

Squizzey, would you agree - that the school is in easy walking distance from their house so why would you use the car??? IMO

I can tell you that the school is just across the main Brookfield Road (would be wise to have an adult guiding them across there) then just up Boscombe Road - probably about 3 minutes from their house. No need for a car - in fact it would be more hassle to use a car except perhaps in pouring rain etc. But then - that's why they invented umbrellas.

Just re the Captiva's back seats etc - yes, for the blood to have got on the wheel arches from some earlier bleed (i.e. before the murder night) Allison would have had to be either in the back sitting, OR just putting something into, or getting something out of the back.

I have a 4WD, and sometimes the groceries slide right forward, in that rearmost compartment, and I have to get up on my knees and crawl forward to reach them. It's feasible (but unlikely, I admit) that Allison may have been doing something like that. Or even struggling to put the rearmost seats up or down, and smacked herself in the nose while doing it, maybe?

I think it's all UNlikely - but very difficult to prove that it was NOT something like that, I imagine, given that as far as i know, they can't accurately age or date the blood stains.

 

[Nads]

I can tell you that the school is just across the main Brookfield Road (would be wise to have an adult guiding them across there) then just up Boscombe Road - probably about 3 minutes from their house. No need for a car - in fact it would be more hassle to use a car except perhaps in pouring rain etc. But then - that's why they invented umbrellas.

Just re the Captiva's back seats etc - yes, for the blood to have got on the wheel arches from some earlier bleed (i.e. before the murder night) Allison would have had to be either in the back sitting, OR just putting something into, or getting something out of the back.

I have a 4WD, and sometimes the groceries slide right forward, in that rearmost compartment, and I have to get up on my knees and crawl forward to reach them. It's feasible (but unlikely, I admit) that Allison may have been doing something like that. Or even struggling to put the rearmost seats up or down, and smacked herself in the nose while doing it, maybe?

I think it's all UNlikely - but very difficult to prove that it was NOT something like that, I imagine, given that as far as i know, they can't accurately age or date the blood stains.

I wonder if the hair they found in the blood could be found to be definitely before or after she went to the hairdressers that night? Might have had a particular treatment or colouring that the hairdresser kept records of?

 

[Thebuttlerdidntdoit]

Squizzey, would you agree - that the school is in easy walking distance from their house so why would you use the car??? IMO

The BC girls were always dropped off and picked up at school by car. The only time I saw them on foot was on a day well after the murder when they were living in the house wiTh GBC (yes they moved back shortly after discovery of body) and they were being walked after school by a young woman, prob a social worker, back to the house.

I think the main reason for not walking them, I think, is that Brookfield Road is a pretty hairy place to cross safely with 3 young ones carrying heavy school bags and violins etc. You really can't see the traffic coming from over the rise, if you're trying to cross in front of the BC house. Also... As was said at the funeral and other places, ABC was not sporty. The speaker at the funerals quite clearly wanted to tell us she wouldn't have been watching the Footy show, nor would she have gone for a walk late at night or early in the morning.

I did see ABC going for a walk, only once, in an outfit very much like the one she died in. It was in the afternoon, prob a weekend day. And she was strolling, rather than peer walking. This was two or three years ago.

 

[alioop]

Testing my ability to attach a photo!!

 

[alioop]

Testing my ability to attach a photo!!

It worked. Yay!

The first photo is of the "boot" space where I lay with my head on the wheel arch. The back row seats are folded down under this space. The middle row of seats are in front and you can see my kiddy car seats attached to the tie down points.
The second photo is of the right back row seat sitting up. You can see my wheel arch beside the seat. The middle row seats are up in front of this seat. The left back row seat is flat.
Hope this helps everyone with the seating configurations and possibilities.

 

[Makara]

Thank you alioop for explaining the seating configuration in the Captiva. Our car is basically the same but is not a Captiva. Are you able to totally remove the seats from the middle and back rows or would this be a major and time consuming effort? Obviously GBC allegedly would have been under a time constraint to dispose of Allison, return home and clean up, so pulling out the seats and then having to put them back may have been out of the question in his FITH mind.

I have done my experiments on my captiva as there have been a few things niggling me for quite a while. Let me explain the layout of my 7 seat captiva which is basically the same as the BC captiva.

There are 3 rows of seats. Two seats in the front row, 2 sections of seats in the middle row (which are split into two thirds and one third which give 3 seating positions) and two seats in the back. The second row and back row fold down flat which is very easy and quick to do. In the photos of the BC captiva taken from the back looking in, both second and back row of seats are folded down. So no seats have been removed, just folded flat giving a large flat area.

In my captiva we use only the first two rows of seats. We are a family of 4 but often carry 5 people with 3 across the middle row. The back row stay flat and there is plenty of room in that hatchback "boot " section on top of the back row folded down seats for luggage, shopping etc. When we have had more than 5 people to transport we have used one or two of the back seats. To get into those back seats you have to fold forward the middle seat sections ( which you can't do easily if you have a kiddy car seat there) or if you are only using 1 back row seat you can climb in the hatch at the back.

I don't know what seating configuration the QPS found the captiva in. However I presume that the usual configuration is that the middle row of seats would have been used by the girls so those seats would usually be up. I have been wondering if poor Allison would have fit in the hatchback "boot" section without the need to fold down the middle row of seats. So I got in the "boot" section of my captiva and had a trusted family member close the hatch. Whilst not comfortable, I certainly fitted in the space and I am taller and bigger than Allison. Interestingly as I could only lie sideways, my head was on one of the wheel arches where the photos show Allison's blood was found. So my point is that she could have fit in the "boot" section without laying down the second row of seats.

The other thing that has been niggling at me is that for Allison's blood to have been found on the wheel arch from some previous injury eg nosebleed, then she would have had to have been sitting in one of the back row seats. I have had my captiva for 4 years and I have only sat in the back row seat once. I hated it, felt claustrophobic way back there. The BCs only had their car for 8 weeks and I think that it is unlikely that Allison sat back there. Most people I think would send kids to sit in those seats.

The other thing I have been thinking about is whether there was a kiddy car seat in the BC car. I think there would have been 1 or 2 as our rules in Queensland are strict and kids have to be in car seats/booster seats until they are 7 depending on their height and weight. If the middle row of seats were folded down when the QPS first saw the captiva, then those kids seats would have to have been removed. I don't think the QPS would have allowed the seats to have been removed for someone, say OW to take the kids to school that day in another car. I don't know if they were driven to school but it would have only taken them 5 mins to walk to school. We have 2 cars and have kiddy car seats in both cars as our kids travel regularly in both cars. So even if the captiva was mainly used by GBC, I think there would have been kiddy seat/s in it. Does anyone know what car the girls were regularly dropped off and collected from school in?

So that is my ponderings and experiments. I took some photos of my captiva with seats down and will try and work out how to attach them as they show different angles to the ones we have seen of the BC captiva that may show a better perspective.

 

[DrWatson]

I wonder if the hair they found in the blood could be found to be definitely before or after she went to the hairdressers that night? Might have had a particular treatment or colouring that the hairdresser kept records of?

Yes - that would be the only way to tell if the blood was from that night - if the hair, complete with specific hair treatment from the previous evening, was found UNDER or IN the bloodstain - i.e. the hair had blood on it too.

If the hair was found either somewhere else in the back of the car, OR if the hair was OVERLYING the bloodstain - that would only prove that the blood got there first. Not how long before....

I must admit I'm surprised that the girls were taken to school by car - the car would have to come out of their drive, and would have to shoot across the road to the upramp onto Boscombe Rd, with the same problem as described above - the traffic coming over the crest on the right.

The only other, perhaps safer way, would be to turn left out of their drive, do a U-turn somewhere further along Brookfield Rd. or do the loop through the Childcare Centre carpark, and come back to Boscombe Rd. But as I said - that'd be more hassle than just walking a few paces down Brookfield Rd away from the crest, and cross the road (with an adult). But, if somebody who knew the girls says they always arrived by car, then who am I to suggest otherwise?

 

[Rational]

Testing my ability to attach a photo!!

Limaes
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very interesting Alioop. I have just compared it to the crime scene photos tendered at the bail hearing by the prosecution. Your observations make a lot of sense!!

 

[DrWatson]

Thank you alioop for explaining the seating configuration in the Captiva. Our car is basically the same but is not a Captiva. Are you able to totally remove the seats from the middle and back rows or would this be a major and time consuming effort? Obviously GBC allegedly would have been under a time constraint to dispose of Allison, return home and clean up, so pulling out the seats and then having to put them back may have been out of the question in his FITH mind.

Why remove them? What's wrong with just tilting them all the way forward? Or even just leave the middle row up as normal, and put the body in the back? As Alioop said - Allison would have fitted in there....

 

[marlywings]

My grandchildrens { who go to school with the girls{ father told me the Prado was Allisons and she always drove it. suppose she would use captiva when other was being serviced or whatever .cant comment on seats.

This was from another local who also said Allison drove the Prado...although there was another member who said GBC, a week or so prior to Allison's disappearance, was driving the Prado, crashed it causing the ding on front.

#801 05-06-2012, 11:06 PM
BrookieLocal
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 14

I have always seen Allison driving the white Prado with Century 21 on the back window, that's why I knew what she looked like. It seems odd for GB-C to take that car on a late night trip, unless he was hoping people would think it was her.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7877853#post7877853"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3 - Page 33 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Thebuttlerdidntdoit]

I must admit I'm surprised that the girls were taken to school by car - the car would have to come out of their drive, and would have to shoot across the road to the upramp onto Boscombe Rd, with the same problem as described above - the traffic coming over the crest on the right.

The only other, perhaps safer way, would be to turn left out of their drive, do a U-turn somewhere further along Brookfield Rd. or do the loop through the Childcare Centre carpark, and come back to Boscombe Rd. But as I said - that'd be more hassle than just walking a few paces down Brookfield Rd away from the crest, and cross the road (with an adult). But, if somebody who knew the girls says they always arrived by car, then who am I to suggest otherwise?

I don't know the girls, just by sight. Same with ABC and GBC.

The traffic coming from the north end of Boscombe Road wanting to continue along Boscombe Road to the school have to cross Broofield Rd as you described.

 

[marlywings]

I wonder if the hair they found in the blood could be found to be definitely before or after she went to the hairdressers that night? Might have had a particular treatment or colouring that the hairdresser kept records of?

I think the reason why the hair found in Captiva was sent away was checking for hair colourant.

From that same post of BrookieLocal....

#801 05-06-2012, 11:06 PM
BrookieLocal
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 14

For those that are interested, she did have colour put in and she did make her next appointment before she left.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7877853#post7877853"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3 - Page 33 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Makara]

Why remove them? What's wrong with just tilting them all the way forward? Or even just leave the middle row up as normal, and put the body in the back? As Alioop said - Allison would have fitted in there....

In case of spillage and not having to worry about visible stains. It was just a thought Doc. and who knows what crazy things went through GBC's head.

Why remove them? Why murder your wife? :moo:

 

[Rational]

I think in light of Alioop's comments and re examining the crime scene photo's in post 84 of page 4 of the media thread you would have to think that the luminal/blood smears and drops were made when all the seats were down hence the line that I referred to earlier which I thought was a line from a tarp or carpet.

On looking at it again I am convinced the blood contamination happened when the seats were down so no children would have been in the car unless they were in the front seat.

It would be interesting to find out how many times over the eight weeks they had that car that Allison was seen in there, particularly as a passenger, when the seats were down over he 8 weeks they had the car.

My guess, no times. If the blood is Allison's which the prosecution claims, then there goes another defence possibility IMO.

My view from looking at the photos on the media thread again are that all passenger seats were down when the blood made contact with the car interior. And IMO he used a tarp or carpet as well.

 

[DunnoZo]

Testing my ability to attach a photo!!

wow, clean! Thanks for all that. got a giggle picturing you(?) in the back. Guess it's not really so funny. But Thanks!

 

[alioop]

Why remove them? What's wrong with just tilting them all the way forward? Or even just leave the middle row up as normal, and put the body in the back? As Alioop said - Allison would have fitted in there....

I agree, no reason to remove any seats. I have no idea if they are easy to remove.

 

[Makara]

I agree, no reason to remove any seats. I have no idea if they are easy to remove.

Ok, thank you.