Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #36

[minni]

Makara
I had a look at those drawings again, when Marly reposted, and if you look closely I think that the writing of Allison's name is, I think, done by the same child/person. Also what I missed the first time around was that in the MSM article accompanying the picture if the drawings they are referred to as 'letters to their mother'.

My daughter called me mum and her father by his first name after she tried it on as a bit of a cheeky joke when she was around 5 or 6, got away with it and it become a joke between them. When I asked years later why, she said just that and that after awhile it seemed unnatural to her to call him anything else.

I taught my children to write my name after they learned to write mummy. So when they draw the family, at one stage its mummy daddy etc, but later on as they learned how to spell it, some drawings had my name in it.

 

[minni]

I think that if there was any doubt whether there was enough evidence he would be out on bail - he will go to trial - he will stay on remand for a long time and then spend the next 10 years after that at least in prison JMO of course

I pray you are right. Im sure you are. Its just something that must weigh heavily on them, not knowing. Until the day he is sentenced and they lock him up and throw away the key (fingers crossed) they will no doubt have fears. MOO MOO

 

[pulpfiction]

Thanks Pulpfiction. I'm interested in two of these drawings where Allison is referred to by name as opposed to Mum or Mummy. Do you have an opinion on why this would be the case? I've never seen this before with kids drawing pictures for a parent or parents where they refer to them by their given name.

Off to work with a big day and 6 families to work with. All the children have major behavioural problems and sadly parents are in the judicial system - some both. Will look tonight. I haven't looked at the pics but could offer only a very generic comment but happy to do that

 

[Maigret]

I pray you are right. Im sure you are. Its just something that must weigh heavily on them, not knowing. Until the day he is sentenced and they lock him up and throw away the key (fingers crossed) they will no doubt have fears. MOO MOO

Yes it would weigh heavily - it would be very draining - my heart goes out to them it makes me very sad and then angry - OT - the case in England where the man left his wife on a bed for months after she died has already gone to court and he has been sentenced already :banghead:

 

[Mountain Misst]

Totally agree Observer. From what we've learned, GBC was having an ongoing affair with TM for over four years and as someone mentioned, that's not an affair, that's a relationship, albeit a part time relationship.

I'm wondering if TM has now learned that GBC lied to the police about their 'affair', telling them that it was over, hence negating her in his life. Does she also know that GBC was very stressed about the Courier Mail revealing his affair with TM, as was mentioned in a previous thread by someone who overheard talk at the Brookfield Show? What, he doesn't love her enough to stand up and say so? Of course not! I also wonder how TM felt when she saw OW on TV saying "Gerard loves Allison."? And I have no doubt that TM saw those ridiculous interviews.

When exactly did TM wake up and realise that she was being played for a fool and a convenience by GBC? I think she had a fair idea from the start of their relationship and IMO she's as bad as he is, they used each other. She wasn't so much upset over the revelation of GBC's other affairs, she was more concerned about her own arse being connected to this despicable murder.

Personally I can't wait to hear what she reveals on the witness stand when this case eventually goes to trial.

MOO.

Wish we could buy tickets to the trial, I'd start saving now. We all'd fill the gallery would we not... :woohoo:

 

[Mountain Misst]

Thanks pulpfiction...yes I remember you mentioning your work with children via play...the drawings are on this link, ...would be interested to know what you think of them but maybe I'll have to check with Kimster or Summer first.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer9f-1226336989408?page=30

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer9f-1226336989408?page=11

Don't want to rain on your parade MW, however the whole CM drawing of mummy in a heart was with a reddish brown pencil. The hair colour at the wedding (in the same compilation of pix) looks pretty red tho...

 

[HeartRuledHead]

I have two trains of thought.

1. like the incessant way he held his phone to his face every single time he was in public, or held his daughters close to him, he feels exposed and worried that people will read his facial expressions and see right through him. Its highly possible that when he saw his video with the reporter that even he knew how untruthful and pathetic his face looked, and realised that, in this case at least, he can't lie for s***, so he'd better cover up.

Either that, or in his arrogance, he googled self incriminating, flicked over a few generalised pointers thinking he is too clever and special to need to do any thorough research, and misread it, not realising that it is incriminating to change your appearance after you murder someone, not the other way round.

I think to be honest, if he stopped to shave or maintain his appearance when his wife went missing we all would still have something to say about it. We would all say "he is so arrogant he obviously is guilty, maybe if he spent half the time looking for Allison as he does on his hairstyle..."

I think that given that most people pegged him as guilty from the start there was no chance he could have put a foot right no matter what he did as far as public perception is concerned...

Other than confessing and leading officials to where he dumped her body.

All IMO, obviously.

 

[frustrated detective]

Oh no! More sadness Almost too much to bear. I feel that Mrs Dickie would find inner strength to battle on for the girls...but such grief. I hope there are many to help her with attending to daily chores whilst the girls are at school so she can just relax for those few short hours. She would need the peace and solitude to gather her energy and thoughts.

Being a busy mum myself I know that irrespective of money the thing I find I value most when I am stressed and sad is to have someone just help with the daily grind of shopping, laundry, housework etc. To me those little things are an ENORMOUS help and what keeps me going on days where I just feel like lying on the couch.

Off topic for a moment - I find shopping online for groceries weekly saves a huge amount of time, energy and stress. Recently I showed an elderly housebound friend how to do this and she was thrilled.

 

[Fuskier]

Off topic for a moment - I find shopping online for groceries weekly saves a huge amount of time, energy and stress. Recently I showed an elderly housebound friend how to do this and she was thrilled.

This may be a tremendous support to the Dickies in this situation - if they are comfortable with it. If it causes them more stress, then it is not going to work well. As they are coping with major grief/loss and lifestyle adjustment, sticking with 'what works' for them is helpful in managing stress. They have lived life, reared a family and they work well as a 'team' by now. We need to be respectful of 'what works' for them and support that.
My opinion only, not fact.

 

[Liadan]

I think to be honest, if he stopped to shave or maintain his appearance when his wife went missing we all would still have something to say about it. We would all say "he is so arrogant he obviously is guilty, maybe if he spent half the time looking for Allison as he does on his hairstyle..."

I think that given that most people pegged him as guilty from the start there was no chance he could have put a foot right no matter what he did as far as public perception is concerned...

Other than confessing and leading officials to where he dumped her body.

All IMO, obviously.

I most politely disagree, while yes, in cases where the a wife goes missing almost immediately the husband is thrown under suspicion. However, perpertrators are inclined to change their appearance after committing an offence to reduce the likelihood that they will be recognised from anyone who may have seen them committing the crime. And also to distance them for that persona.

GBC's actions from day 1 were telling. The refusal to police questioning, the lack of presence at the showgrounds command post, not supporting the Dickies in their press conference. Then he lawyers up. These were probably more indicative of his guilt at this early stage than his beard.In the community his ladies man reputation preceded him. It was a shock that Allison was missing but with his cocky phrases and trite messages that he was honest and valued integrity above all why would he suddenly decide that he needed to close his mouth. Where was his empathy for his wife? Where was he showing support to the family who were obviously going through hell? Instead he silently and cowardly holed up with his parents using their house as a protective shield from the pesky press who were not leaving them alone.

 

[Mountain Misst]

I most politely disagree, while yes, in cases where the a wife goes missing almost immediately the husband is thrown under suspicion. However, perpertrators are inclined to change their appearance after committing an offence to reduce the likelihood that they will be recognised from anyone who may have seen them committing the crime. And also to distance them for that persona.

GBC's actions from day 1 were telling. The refusal to police questioning, the lack of presence at the showgrounds command post, not supporting the Dickies in their press conference. Then he lawyers up. These were probably more indicative of his guilt at this early stage than his beard.In the community his ladies man reputation preceded him. It was a shock that Allison was missing but with his cocky phrases and trite messages that he was honest and valued integrity above all why would he suddenly decide that he needed to close his mouth. Where was his empathy for his wife? Where was he showing support to the family who were obviously going through hell? Instead he silently and cowardly holed up with his parents using their house as a protective shield from the pesky press who were not leaving them alone.

Hiding behind daddy perhaps? Or is it mummy's skirt he's put his head into? Just like a naughty boy would... Seems crazy to us, however GBC's behaviour (post Allison) reads like a person reverting to childhood reactions - ie being guided by parents in all decisions (and I include the 'lock down' stuff that went on from Day 1.) IMO daddy, yes daddy not mummy has a lot to answer for.

I smell a rat in the trenches - NBC is perhaps building a 'dementia' argument to 'excuse' his own behaviour or indeed actions in the aftermath of Allison's demise as well as distance himself from any responsibility for the possible dysfunctional upbringing of his children. He will then not be able to give evidence against GBC. He doesn't remember! Don't let bwana fool you folks....

Just my opinion of course.

 

[BreakingNews]

32 more sleeps

 

[alioop]

GBC has been refused bail and I can't see any changes to that happening. There would only be more evidence against him being added to the growing evidence pile as time goes on. His lawyers can apply at any time for a fresh bail hearing but they would have to show new evidence that strongly challenges the evidence presented at the bail hearing by the prosecution. So I think that is unlikely if he is responsible for Allison's death.

So he is in remand until the results of the committal hearing sometime next year to determine if there is sufficient evidence to send him to trial. My thoughts on what we know about the evidence are that he will be committed to trial. Then he goes back to remand to wait for trial, which depending on the effect of a new Supreme Court judge being appointed to speed up the trial list, could be 1 to 3 years away. There are plenty of accused persons in remand ahead of GBC waiting in line for trials. He won't be given priority, he will be treated by the legal system in the standard manner.

So in my opinion GBC is not going anywhere for a couple of years at least. As to custody issues, I was interested to hear the rumour that that the BC's aren't allowed any contact with the girls. I think that the police must have had something to do with this and may have made a submission to the Family Court about their concerns re the BC's or at least one or more of them having some involvement with Allison's murder or coverup of it. They may have just said something like"we are still investigating the possibility of the BC's involvement and believe they should not be allowed contact with the girls as they are possible witnesses"

One other thing I have been thinking about is the second charge of interfering with Allison's body and taking her to Kholo Creek. If the QPS charge someone else who they think assisted GBC with the moving of Allison's body then they could charge that person with this same charge. Keeps the charges consistent and easier to present and prepare evidence for either a joint trial or separate trials if the other charged person or persons request a separate trial. If there were to be separate trials, then GBC's would go first and the outcome of it would determine if the prosecution proceeded with the second trial.

 

[minni]

GBC has been refused bail and I can't see any changes to that happening. There would only be more evidence against him being added to the growing evidence pile as time goes on. His lawyers can apply at any time for a fresh bail hearing but they would have to show new evidence that strongly challenges the evidence presented at the bail hearing by the prosecution. So I think that is unlikely if he is responsible for Allison's death.

So he is in remand until the results of the committal hearing sometime next year to determine if there is sufficient evidence to send him to trial. My thoughts on what we know about the evidence are that he will be committed to trial. Then he goes back to remand to wait for trial, which depending on the effect of a new Supreme Court judge being appointed to speed up the trial list, could be 1 to 3 years away. There are plenty of accused persons in remand ahead of GBC waiting in line for trials. He won't be given priority, he will be treated by the legal system in the standard manner.

So in my opinion GBC is not going anywhere for a couple of years at least. As to custody issues, I was interested to hear the rumour that that the BC's aren't allowed any contact with the girls. I think that the police must have had something to do with this and may have made a submission to the Family Court about their concerns re the BC's or at least one or more of them having some involvement with Allison's murder or coverup of it. They may have just said something like"we are still investigating the possibility of the BC's involvement and believe they should not be allowed contact with the girls as they are possible witnesses"

One other thing I have been thinking about is the second charge of interfering with Allison's body and taking her to Kholo Creek. If the QPS charge someone else who they think assisted GBC with the moving of Allison's body then they could charge that person with this same charge. Keeps the charges consistent and easier to present and prepare evidence for either a joint trial or separate trials if the other charged person or persons request a separate trial. If there were to be separate trials, then GBC's would go first and the outcome of it would determine if the prosecution proceeded with the second trial.

Thankyou. In your opinion then there is no chance or very slim chance of him getting out within 6 months or so. I have such limited understanding of the court procedures. I am happy to hear your thoughts Allioop.

 

[alioop]

Correct Minni.

 

[pulpfiction]

GBC has been refused bail and I can't see any changes to that happening. There would only be more evidence against him being added to the growing evidence pile as time goes on. His lawyers can apply at any time for a fresh bail hearing but they would have to show new evidence that strongly challenges the evidence presented at the bail hearing by the prosecution. So I think that is unlikely if he is responsible for Allison's death.

So he is in remand until the results of the committal hearing sometime next year to determine if there is sufficient evidence to send him to trial. My thoughts on what we know about the evidence are that he will be committed to trial. Then he goes back to remand to wait for trial, which depending on the effect of a new Supreme Court judge being appointed to speed up the trial list, could be 1 to 3 years away. There are plenty of accused persons in remand ahead of GBC waiting in line for trials. He won't be given priority, he will be treated by the legal system in the standard manner.

So in my opinion GBC is not going anywhere for a couple of years at least. As to custody issues, I was interested to hear the rumour that that the BC's aren't allowed any contact with the girls. I think that the police must have had something to do with this and may have made a submission to the Family Court about their concerns re the BC's or at least one or more of them having some involvement with Allison's murder or coverup of it. They may have just said something like"we are still investigating the possibility of the BC's involvement and believe they should not be allowed contact with the girls as they are possible witnesses"

One other thing I have been thinking about is the second charge of interfering with Allison's body and taking her to Kholo Creek. If the QPS charge someone else who they think assisted GBC with the moving of Allison's body then they could charge that person with this same charge. Keeps the charges consistent and easier to present and prepare evidence for either a joint trial or separate trials if the other charged person or persons request a separate trial. If there were to be separate trials, then GBC's would go first and the outcome of it would determine if the prosecution proceeded with the second trial.

Thanks that's what I thought

 

[Gemini Girl]

Wish we could buy tickets to the trial, I'd start saving now. We all'd fill the gallery would we not... :woohoo:

Agree MM, oddly though people on the spot report some empty seats at the Lloyd Rayney trial.

Off course that trial is Judge only so a bit less dramatic than a jury trial I imagine

:twocents:

JMO MOO

 

[Fuskier]

GBC has been refused bail and I can't see any changes to that happening. There would only be more evidence against him being added to the growing evidence pile as time goes on...

So he is in remand until the results of the committal hearing sometime next year to determine if there is sufficient evidence to send him to trial. My thoughts on what we know about the evidence are that he will be committed to trial... So in my opinion GBC is not going anywhere for a couple of years at least...

One other thing I have been thinking about is the second charge of interfering with Allison's body and taking her to Kholo Creek. If the QPS charge someone else who they think assisted GBC with the moving of Allison's body then they could charge that person with this same charge...

Appreciate your grounding contribution Alioop.

 

[alioop]

You're welcome Fuskier.

 

[marlywings]

Thanks MarlyWings

Whilst I could speculate on the drawings it wouldn't be worth much and i feel it would be professionally inappropriate of me to do so. I say it wouldn't be worth much because in order to attempt to gain an understanding what a child is attempting to express (or might be or could be interpreted as) truly requires much focus on body language, voice intonation, style of play and how the drawings are done or how the play eventuates. Observation is critically important and even then I frequently (with consent) go away and watch the video footage over and over of the play. With drawings its a little different. Often children, who I have built good rapport with, feel a sense of trust after a while and will often ask me can they tell me what they drew but every child is different. It takes a while before I even attempt it as a therapy to introduce. But often it creates a division a d that can bring quiet sense of peace for some. Some kids are quite aggressive with play and drawings can be macabre obviously. Some are highly sexualised in the work I do also - sad

What I can say at a glance, and it's just IMO, is that the 1st drawing to me represents how loved Allison was. The "I ❤" inside a larger heart and the size of it says a lot. I think we sll see that though Beyond that I wouldn't elaborate as I'd just be guessing I'm afraid.

Also in every pic I've seen of Allison she looks a redhead or strawberry blonde. Her coloring seems fair also.

Thanks pulpfiction...appreciate you taking the time to post about them. It is probably too hard to guage what exactly was going on at the time with the girls & whether they received prompting from BC family considering they were drawn when they were living with the older BC's.

Would be absolutely fascinating the work you do with children although heartbreaking at times also.