Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[Chief of Funtime]

I agree.

I do not think she was left at the bridge where she was found. I do not think she was left near the Scout Camp. I think Allison was left near the dry creek bed in Wirrabarra. It is secluded, and easily accessible. And Allison may not have been found unless it had rained.

YeS but don't you think they wanted her to be found , eventually ? No body no insurance pay out for 7 years .moo

 

[ollijack]

Is the 'no body no payout for 7 years real or a myth. I really don't know. Not trying to be annoying. Xx

 

[Chief of Funtime]

Don't know for sure ollijack but I don't think they will pay life insurance on a missing person . You can be a missing person for up to 7 years until you are declared officially dead . Possibly some policies are different . Moo

 

[Makara]

I was out in Anstead today testing my motorbike and decided to check out the area to get a feel for where and how the body was probably dump.

Firstly I never realised that Bunya Street was a dead end and ended just here. http://goo.gl/maps/9ZXL9
There were three entrances to the Scout camp along this road, all with chained gates.
The road was pretty quiet from the street and I could see how a car could get down there undetected, however it just didn't feel right.
All the gates looked looked, and unless the person had a key I can't see them going down this road.

I almost didn't go down Wirrabara Road but am glad I did.
Firstly it is pretty secluded.
The gate at the end of the road which I always took as the entrance to the Scout camp is actually a government state forest gate and allows access for horses (low section in the fence) and walkers. It didn't at all feel like a place that someone would try to dump a body. It was native forest which had low grass.
However the two sections that really stood out to me was A and B in this map. http://goo.gl/maps/MpVVt

Firstly A which is a creak crossing. You could tell by the banks that is gets quite a lot of water through it. It looked like a place that you could easily take and hide a body, but there was no real place to park IMO.
However B screamed perfect for the task.
Despite this picture (http://goo.gl/maps/Jw9PW), it is quite over grown and even had a old car body dumped in here.
There was plenty of room to drive a car down very close to the river bank and never be spotted by someone driving past, and even then it would only be one of the 2-3 houses on the street. Especially at that time of night.
What you also don't see from gmaps is the elevation from here to the road. There is no way anyone on Mount Crosby Road could see anything on that road once they enter it.
This here is where I believe the body was dumped and it has washed down in the excessive rain we had on the 30 odd hours previous to the body being discovered.

BBM.

Thanks for the links wakeside. I've always been intrigued by the place you linked to (and I've bolded) above. When I was checking out Wirraburra Rd. on Google maps, that particular place really stood out but I wasn't sure if it actually led to the creek. I've included a few screencaps below of that parking area. I agree with you, there is plenty of room to drive a car (or two) in there. So is this place close to and easily accessable to the riverbank? This particular spot is not as far along Willaburra Rd as Little Ugly Creek Bridge and Allison's body would have more easily have been washed down to where it was found, not having to travel as far from upstream if she had been dumped at the Little Ugly Creek Bridge.

 

[alioop]

In QLD, there is no 7 year rule. A coroner can find a person dead whenever he or she has sufficient information on which to base such a finding.

This usually requires:
an examination of the circumstances in which the missing person was last seen,
interviews with those who would expect to be in contact with the person were they still alive,
searches of bank accounts and the records of government departments with whom the missing person would be expected to have contact, and
consideration of whether there is any likely explanation for the person being missing other than that they are dead.

For example, the missing people in the Lockyer Valley floods were declared deceased by drowning by a coroner 18 months after the floods.


Death by natural events such as the floods are probably determined quicker because it is pretty clear they were washed away in the floods as there were witnesses.

So in the event of someone like Allison going missing I would guess it would still be a process that could take a couple of years at least but likely more.

Once a death certificate is issued following the coroners declaration of death, that can be given to an insurance company. The difficulty may be the cause of death is unknown and depending on the terms of the policy, if there were any exclusions the company may refuse to pay.

 

[alioop]

I was out in Anstead today testing my motorbike and decided to check out the area to get a feel for where and how the body was probably dump.

Firstly I never realised that Bunya Street was a dead end and ended just here. http://goo.gl/maps/9ZXL9
There were three entrances to the Scout camp along this road, all with chained gates.
The road was pretty quiet from the street and I could see how a car could get down there undetected, however it just didn't feel right.
All the gates looked looked, and unless the person had a key I can't see them going down this road.

I almost didn't go down Wirrabara Road but am glad I did.
Firstly it is pretty secluded.
The gate at the end of the road which I always took as the entrance to the Scout camp is actually a government state forest gate and allows access for horses (low section in the fence) and walkers. It didn't at all feel like a place that someone would try to dump a body. It was native forest which had low grass.
However the two sections that really stood out to me was A and B in this map. http://goo.gl/maps/MpVVt

Firstly A which is a creak crossing. You could tell by the banks that is gets quite a lot of water through it. It looked like a place that you could easily take and hide a body, but there was no real place to park IMO.
However B screamed perfect for the task.
Despite this picture (http://goo.gl/maps/Jw9PW), it is quite over grown and even had a old car body dumped in here.
There was plenty of room to drive a car down very close to the river bank and never be spotted by someone driving past, and even then it would only be one of the 2-3 houses on the street. Especially at that time of night.
What you also don't see from gmaps is the elevation from here to the road. There is no way anyone on Mount Crosby Road could see anything on that road once they enter it.
This here is where I believe the body was dumped and it has washed down in the excessive rain we had on the 30 odd hours previous to the body being discovered.

Good job Wakeskate. Did you happen to take any photos of the creek from the parking area? When I went to Wirraburra Road, I didn't know where the creek was in relation to the road other than where it crossed the road. I hope the QPS checked it out as yours is the best theory I have heard. Ticks all the boxes for me.

 

[Fuskier]

I've never heard the boyfriend thing either . But I agree that Allison tried to ring someone that night. Otherwise her phone would not be of such importance . Maybe the police or a number the counsellores had given her . I keep thinking the argument was so extreme and that's when the scratches happened but she was able to get outside to phone someone . Maybe in fear of her life managed to get to creekside park .but gbc was following in the prado. Muffled screams heard by residents who threatened to call police. Maybe that's why he couldn't go back down rafting ground rd because he didn't know if police had been called . Moo

Maybe ... he couldn't go back down rafting ground rd because he didn't know if police had been called by those who had heard the screams.
I agree this is a possibility.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Me thinks we are getting close. Well done bloodhounds - all of you. Wish I was in Brissie to give you a hand. Instead I'll give you a round of applause, hope that will suffice.

 

[Liadan]

I cannot for 1 second believe that GBC had any other intentions than to keep getting away with fooling around and Allisons death was probably discussed by TM and GBC as some kind of pipe dream they came up with to let them be together. Only moo of course, but despite proclaiming to TM while being Bruce Overland that finally by July 1 he was going to be with TM- - there would have been extenuating cirucmstances and excuses made that is the way of these trysts. I think Allison kept his little family world illusion going and he liked to be known for his 'dedicated family man' image. Family in the business with nigel and elaine, his girls coming to help out at the office (puke)

TM was a long term investment for him. She was the enabler of his lifestyle. For a long time she got preferential treatment at the agency - the best and most numerous listings. No doubt Nigelaine would have been supporting GBC in this as well. This way - GBC got to reap the money TM made by 'being' with her and keeping this money from his family. Don't get me wrong - GBC would have earned money but compare TM's St lucia address after a flash in the pan work stint at C21 with the hovel Allison was made to put up with. Where do you think GBC spent most of his time? He was basically living the high life with TM two incomes and the high life.

I think too (moo) that GBC was not concerned about how long it took to find Allison's body. The longer the bette rbefore it was found - and if and when they found her body GBC wouldbe able to expedite the proceedings to cash in the insurance policy. As I have said before - debtors are patient when the promise of cash is forthcoming.

 

[Tishy]

Liadan, IMO you have hit nail square on head re the why, and Wakeskate's excellent theory of the how seems very feasible.
What was it agiain, motive, means and opportunity? The opportunity acted on by The Accused using a means we are yet to know. We can hear the sounds of boxes being ticked from here. Roll on September.

 

[possumheart]

There were three entrances to the Scout camp along this road, all with chained gates.

Chains again :sigh:

 

[The Observer]

One thing that amazes me is that it was apparently about 3 years before Allison learned of the affair. I find that very surprising. Many women (not all) know very early on in the piece once their partner starts playing around, especially if it's an ongoing thing.

He must have been a really good lier I suppose.

Exactly. He managed to keep a lid on alot didnt he, until the business crashed. Then the relationship with TM came out and began the tragic downslide for Allison. Let's not forget TM helped keep this underwraps. I mean what decent woman pretends to be friends with the wife, acts all part of the team, which is a family business, all the while sleeping with the husband. Despictable.

I cannot for 1 second believe that GBC had any other intentions than to keep getting away with fooling around and Allisons death was probably discussed by TM and GBC as some kind of pipe dream they came up with to let them be together.

TM was a long term investment for him. She was the enabler of his lifestyle. For a long time she got preferential treatment at the agency - the best and most numerous listings. No doubt Nigelaine would have been supporting GBC in this as well. This way - GBC got to reap the money TM made by 'being' with her and keeping this money from his family. Don't get me wrong - GBC would have earned money but compare TM's St lucia address after a flash in the pan work stint at C21 with the hovel Allison was made to put up with.

Exactly Liadan, I agree. I said a while back that I beleive TM is FAR from innocent and naive in all this. IMO.

Edited to add: Thanks to Wakeskate and Makara. Thanks for the details and pics. This is very interesting indeed. So how far is the creek from the parking area? Short distance enough to carry a body?

 

[wakeskate]

I was out in Anstead today testing my motorbike and decided to check out the area to get a feel for where and how the body was probably dump.

Firstly I never realised that Bunya Street was a dead end and ended just here. http://goo.gl/maps/9ZXL9
There were three entrances to the Scout camp along this road, all with chained gates.
The road was pretty quiet from the street and I could see how a car could get down there undetected, however it just didn't feel right.
All the gates looked looked, and unless the person had a key I can't see them going down this road.

I almost didn't go down Wirrabara Road but am glad I did.
Firstly it is pretty secluded.
The gate at the end of the road which I always took as the entrance to the Scout camp is actually a government state forest gate and allows access for horses (low section in the fence) and walkers. It didn't at all feel like a place that someone would try to dump a body. It was native forest which had low grass.
However the two sections that really stood out to me was A and B in this map. http://goo.gl/maps/MpVVt

Firstly A which is a creak crossing. You could tell by the banks that is gets quite a lot of water through it. It looked like a place that you could easily take and hide a body, but there was no real place to park IMO.
However B screamed perfect for the task.
Despite this picture (http://goo.gl/maps/Jw9PW), it is quite over grown and even had a old car body dumped in here.
There was plenty of room to drive a car down very close to the river bank and never be spotted by someone driving past, and even then it would only be one of the 2-3 houses on the street. Especially at that time of night.
What you also don't see from gmaps is the elevation from here to the road. There is no way anyone on Mount Crosby Road could see anything on that road once they enter it.
This here is where I believe the body was dumped and it has washed down in the excessive rain we had on the 30 odd hours previous to the body being discovered.

Sorry, for some reason the wrong link was posted when I was referring to points A and B. This is the right map.

http://goo.gl/maps/bjFyp

 

[wakeskate]

Good job Wakeskate. Did you happen to take any photos of the creek from the parking area? When I went to Wirraburra Road, I didn't know where the creek was in relation to the road other than where it crossed the road. I hope the QPS checked it out as yours is the best theory I have heard. Ticks all the boxes for me.

I didn't think to take any pictures.
Although it's close to my house. I did feel weird even driving around the area, but after visiting it now I know I am not interrupting anyone.
The creek is basically right at the edge of those trees, and it's not really were anyone would ever go walking/riding/horseriding etc.

I might jump in the car now and go and take a few photos of the area.

 

[The Observer]

The creek is basically right at the edge of those trees, and it's not really were anyone would ever go walking/riding/horseriding etc.

I might jump in the car now and go and take a few photos of the area.

This to me sounds like its likely to be the spot then. Clearly no risk of being disturbed and no land decline/hill to attempt to get a body down (like at the bridge). The bridge always just seemed too risky to me even if he was in a state of panic.

 

[Rational]

BBM.

Thanks for the links wakeside. I've always been intrigued by the place you linked to (and I've bolded) above. When I was checking out Wirraburra Rd. on Google maps, that particular place really stood out but I wasn't sure if it actually led to the creek. I've included a few screencaps below of that parking area. I agree with you, there is plenty of room to drive a car (or two) in there. So is this place close to and easily accessable to the riverbank? This particular spot is not as far along Willaburra Rd as Little Ugly Creek Bridge and Allison's body would have more easily have been washed down to where it was found, not having to travel as far from upstream if she had been dumped at the Little Ugly Creek Bridge.

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That's interesting, and I think the question like you said is how accessible is it to the riverbank as it seems from the screenshots that it could be a long way to drag a body?

 

[Rational]

I didn't think to take any pictures.
Although it's close to my house. I did feel weird even driving around the area, but after visiting it now I know I am not interrupting anyone.
The creek is basically right at the edge of those trees, and it's not really were anyone would ever go walking/riding/horseriding etc.

I might jump in the car now and go and take a few photos of the area.

You're a trooper Wakeskate!

 

[enthralled]

I would love to go check out all these areas but my friends aren't interested in this case like I am. Well done to those of you that have checked them out and reported back. It helps those of us who haven't or can't be there

 

[alioop]

I would also like to know how far from that part of the creek beside the parking area off Wirraburra Rd is it to Kholo creek. It can't be far. Hope Wakeside gets some good pics for us.

 

[Rational]

The very first report I heard about Allison's dissappearence on Sydney radio was that a 'Queensland mother had gone missing after meeting with her boyfriend police are concerned as this was out of character'
Question: was ABC & GBC estranged & was GBC actually really living there? Was the marriage so over? If so what was he there for, maybe she was trying to get him to leave & called the police that night, I remember hearing the police were called the night before for possible DV? C'mon court case!

I agree that the Sydney media may have got it wrong, but there is also a possibility that GBC and Allison had some kind of pretend arrangement for the children, and I vaguely remember that there was some suggestion at one stage that Allison had in fact met someone else.