Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[KG1]

I'd just like to ram those photos down this bloke's throat! :furious:

View attachment 25661

He looks pretty angry in the mugshot - still in fantasy land - one matter he couldn't talk his way out of!

 

[KG1]

Off topic, but this case has been mentioned on here previously. This is an update link.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...fe-shanoz-qidwai/story-e6frg6nf-1226451118275

 

[Makara]

I looked at this video many times around the time it first appeared. You are quite correct, it is a police person and he does move and he also moved something, which I believe is Allison's body directly beside/behind him. I previously froze this brief part many times and I am sure he is with her body. It was so fleeting, it takes lots of patience to freeze it at just the right time. I am also posting a couple of photos which were posted around that time, which shows her body and the position of her body. She is definitely under the bridge, but in one photo angle, it looks otherwise, but is not so. I am technically challenged when it comes to marking photos, but the original poster has marked her position in photo 2.

IG1, I posted those screen caps and indicated with the arrows where Allison and the policeman are.

 

[Makara]

Off topic, but this case has been mentioned on here previously. This is an update link.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...fe-shanoz-qidwai/story-e6frg6nf-1226451118275

Thanks KG1. I'm glad the perp has been arrested.

 

[Chief of Funtime]

Very interesting documentary on body language on 22 anybody watching?

 

[Mani]

I agree.

I do not think she was left at the bridge where she was found. I do not think she was left near the Scout Camp. I think Allison was left near the dry creek bed in Wirrabarra. It is secluded, and easily accessible. And Allison may not have been found unless it had rained.

And I can remember you said that you had a bad feeling down Wirrabarra Road CJ.

 

[Mountain Misst]

I think the smell would have caught the canoeist attention (sorry its an awful thing to say)
My hubby has had to pull a couple of bodies out of the sea , its not good at all.

A few threads back someone posted the tidal movements

Apologies to whomever posted this originally. I just kept the image. cheers...

 

[Mani]

That is the feeling I get as well.
Mount Crosby Road is just too open.

Yes if you knew exactly what you were doing, you could back in there and by luck nobody would have seen you.
You have to remember that this person just killed someone. If they get caught it's life in prison. I just don't think they would risk it.

I have driven down both Bunya Road and Wirrabara Road twice now, and Wirrabara round just feels right.
I know it's a long way from the bridge, and DrWatson's location makes a lot more sense in terms of the body floating down to the bridge.

What we need to do is next time we have a big down pour is head out to Kholo and Little Ugly creek and get some more photos.

Wirrabara Road is a way off from the bridge but closer than Bunya St and the Scout Camp to the bridge.

Both creeks have fallen trees and debris across them which would be a hindrance but with the amount of water that locals say came down the weekend before Allison was found (and which create big holes in debris and dirt, such as the one in your picture), she could have been moved down the creek and over or through the debris. IMO

Your photos give a very complete picture of the surrounds.

 

[KG1]

IG1, I posted those screen caps and indicated with the arrows where Allison and the policeman are.

Thanks Makara, I saved them at the time as I believe they do show her body accurately. I couldn't recall who had posted them, but I should have thought of you as you have posted many photos and screen caps, which have been of great assistance to us all. Thanks again.

 

[bearbear]

after looking at all these photos again, does anyone think allison may have been thrown over the bridge to make it look like suicide? it would only take a less than a minute to drag her out of the car and haul her over the rail, especially with all that adrenalin strength. i know this has been discussed and discounted before, and i still believe the plastic bag rumour, so guess a suicide wouldnt cover their head with a bag and jump! back to lurking!!
actually, while im here, ive been thinking how extreme it is for a normal person with no criminal history to murder someone. really, what circumstances would cause someone to murder their partner unless it was an out of control fight and accidental, but to pre plan it, its such a life changing act and the risks of being caught and life in prison so high, what would make that worth it? surely its not just the life insurance, im wondering if allison knew something about him which was so bad he was desperate enough to kill her. otherwise, he could have just left her, taken off overseas, started again. i feel there is a lot more to this.

 

[wakeskate]

after looking at all these photos again, does anyone think allison may have been thrown over the bridge to make it look like suicide?

This is completely possible and if the rumour of two cars being involved it would make it a lot easier to pull off.
One could have been parked on look out back a few km, whilst the other did the deed.
With the interior light switch off, and the lights left on, if a car came along it would be hard to tell if it was stopped or not.
One of the first things you learn in nautical navigation is using lights as a point of reference will get you into a lot of trouble as it's impossible to tell the distance to it unless you know the intensity. Same applies for cars on dark roads at night. You have a fair idea given you sort of know the intensity of a cars headlights, but it's not always what you think you are seeing.
It's also completely possible given the snag or eddy that kept the body their in the first place could have easily done the same thing when dumped over the bridge.

However, my feeling is all that creeks and bridges would have been checked early in the piece. I am pretty sure I said this in threads gone by, and in this thread someone reported they knew an SES worker who said they checked the area during the initial search.
Going on that information, we can only assume the body wasn't there in the first few days, but floated down during the large downpour the day before.

So with this said. I think somewhere further up the creek was the initial location of the body, and it floated down.
My guesses are either where DrWatson thinks and 1/3 the way up Wirrabara Road.
You also need to remember that in my photos I didn't go past the fence line at the property near Wirrabara road. There were signs of a car driving in their recently and the lantana and general weed type plants that grow around that creek were very thick. If the killer knew the area (lets say he was a real estate agent :what: ), he would know how far along the creek he could go without the home owners seeing the car. And even then he may not have used the car and went on foot for a bit.

Again, all just theories and feelings I got when I visited the area. Not saying they are true, but they just felt right.
Like someone commenting recently about being able to fit a car next to the cross at Little Ugly Creek. Yes I agree you could, but would you do it in such an open area where a car would come driving along. I don't think so.

All I know is the police are extremely lucky the body didn't make it into the Brisbane River. If that happened identifying the location of the dump point would have been almost impossible and they would have had much less evidence to go on.
Bodies when drowned tend to sink for about the first week, and then they inflate and come to the surface. This happened with that Irish boy who fell off the boat a few years ago. He wasn't found for almost a week and then all of a sudden he was floating down the middle of the river right near the city.
If the body hadn't been found in Kholo creek then there is no way (even with advanced modeling) to identify the location as the rain we had mixed with unknown eddys, snags etc would mean they would just be guessing where to look.

 

[wakeskate]

what would make that worth it? surely its not just the life insurance, im wondering if allison knew something about him which was so bad he was desperate enough to kill her. otherwise, he could have just left her, taken off overseas, started again. i feel there is a lot more to this.

I think the fact a divorce was on the cards (this has been rumoured plenty of times), and the fact (I think) that Allison sold a house she bought before they were together to help start the C21 business.
If this is all true, a divorce would simply mean GBC would spend the better part of the next 20 years working for a company to support his wife and kids, and he probably wouldn't get a cent from it. That plus the insurance money would have put him back in a better position. Obviously enough reason for him to consider it.

 

[alioop]

I looked at this video many times around the time it first appeared. You are quite correct, it is a police person and he does move and he also moved something, which I believe is Allison's body directly beside/behind him.

KG1 I don't think we are talking about the same person moving. I agree with you that the body is below the base of the pylon where Markara marked the screen cap with a red arrow. The movement I was referring to is by something blue up above the pylon base just the left of the right pylon. We had been discussing whether the body was below the pylon base or above it where that blue/grey object is. When I watched the video I saw slight movement of that blue/grey object and said that it couldn't be Allison's body as it moved.

I think that we have now agreed that the body is below the base of the pylon.

Thanks MM for the tide times. I have looked at them again for Brisbane River/Kholo Creek for Monday 30 April, the day the body was found.

http://tides.willyweather.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane-river--kholo-creek.html

When the canoist found the body at about 11 am, the tide was on its way out from a high of 2.1m at 7 am and was 1.1m at 11 am. It got to its lowest of 0.7m at 1 pm. It then increased to 1.5 m by 5.30pm and 1.7m at 8 pm.

I think it was lucky it was a low tide for her to be found and also it gave the QPS hours to retrieve her body before the tide covered the location. I don't know if the body would have been floating at a high tide or remained on the bottom.

 

[LauraMars]

after looking at all these photos again, does anyone think allison may have been thrown over the bridge to make it look like suicide? it would only take a less than a minute to drag her out of the car and haul her over the rail, especially with all that adrenalin strength. i know this has been discussed and discounted before, and i still believe the plastic bag rumour, so guess a suicide wouldnt cover their head with a bag and jump! back to lurking!!
actually, while im here, ive been thinking how extreme it is for a normal person with no criminal history to murder someone. really, what circumstances would cause someone to murder their partner unless it was an out of control fight and accidental, but to pre plan it, its such a life changing act and the risks of being caught and life in prison so high, what would make that worth it? surely its not just the life insurance, im wondering if allison knew something about him which was so bad he was desperate enough to kill her. otherwise, he could have just left her, taken off overseas, started again. i feel there is a lot more to this.

While I've thought about this bearbear, I think it's unlikely Allison was thrown off the bridge to make it look like suicide. Partly because it doesn't seem high enough, so if someone were going to suicide, they would probably pick a much higher bridge/cliff, rather than risking bad injury and not death. I think even if someone was trying to make it appear like suicide, this wouldn't be the place to do it.

I also think it would be too risky for the killer, that the body could have ended up in the water, and then quite easily in the Brisbane River, which could easily mean it may never have been found. Even if she had been thrown off the bridge into scrub, there was still a risk that she may have rolled down the bank, which is apparently steep in parts, and into the water.

I tend to think she was washed down with the rains, from where, I have no idea. Whether or not Allison's murderer wanted her found, I'm not quite sure. You would think yes, if the insurance money was a main motive, but yeah, that one raises some questions. If the killer wanted her found eventually, and she wasn't, then they would have to somehow give a tip-off to someone.

Like you, I also wonder if Allison had some major dirt on GBC, or maybe she'd just had enough and told him she was going to leave him. He may have then been motivated by stupid pride and money, and took the risk of killing her, in order to get the insurance, rather than be left with nothing?

It is odd that someone would do something so hideous, out of the blue, with no apparent record/history, which makes me think he must have shown some signs of being a bit of a monster prior to all this. I would love to know what those 'things she told me' were, when her friend Kerry-Anne spoke of "I should have done more".

All MOO

 

[marlywings]

I think that we have now agreed that the body is below the base of the pylon.

Thanks MM for the tide times. I have looked at them again for Brisbane River/Kholo Creek for Monday 30 April, the day the body was found.

http://tides.willyweather.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane-river--kholo-creek.html

When the canoist found the body at about 11 am, the tide was on its way out from a high of 2.1m at 7 am and was 1.1m at 11 am. It got to its lowest of 0.7m at 1 pm. It then increased to 1.5 m by 5.30pm and 1.7m at 8 pm.

I think it was lucky it was a low tide for her to be found and also it gave the QPS hours to retrieve her body before the tide covered the location. I don't know if the body would have been floating at a high tide or remained on the bottom.

I think the photo of the council workers gives quite a good look at the height of the water....this was taken in the morning on one of the days following the discovery of Allison's body & would have been around or close to high tide. Morning tide heights from Mon 30th through that week were around 2.1 - 2.2m.

 

[wakeskate]

I think the photo of the council workers gives quite a good look at the height of the water....this was taken in the morning on one of the days following the discovery of Allison's body & would have been around or close to high tide. Morning tide heights from Mon 30th through that week were around 2.1 - 2.2m.

View attachment 25674

That photo is deceptive. It looks like the water is almost at the top of the pylon, but I can tell you it was a 4+ metre drop from there to the mud as seen in this photo
I took the next photo from about where the "grey pants" label is.

Now compare it to the photo I took on Monday
(From where I was standing to the mud is a good 4+ metres)

Looks a lot different doesn't it, but if you look at the pipe off in the distance you can see it's only about 0.5m which was the high tide the other day.

 

[Mountain Misst]

That photo is deceptive. It looks like the water is almost at the top of the pylon, but I can tell you it was a 4+ metre drop from there to the mud as seen in this photo
I took the next photo from about where the "grey pants" label is.

Now compare it to the photo I took on Monday
(From where I was standing to the mud is a good 4+ metres)

Looks a lot different doesn't it, but if you look at the pipe off in the distance you can see it's only about 0.5m which was the high tide the other day.

Wakeskate - how high is the vertical drop where the concrete pylons are in the forefront of the pic above the mud (the concrete wall - pier supporting the pylons I think it is) Is it about 2metres of the 4+ that you are talking about?

 

[wakeskate]

Wakeskate - how high is the vertical drop where the concrete pylons are in the forefront of the pic above the mud (the concrete wall - pier supporting the pylons I think it is) Is it about 2metres of the 4+ that you are talking about?

From where I took that photo it felt like around 4 metres. Obviously it's deceptive standing on top of something as opposed to below it, but I definitely wasn't trying to jump down there as it was too far to do that.

Happy to go out again tomorrow and take more photo and measurements if people want me too. It's my last free day before I head off on holidays next week so I have some time.

 

[marlywings]

That photo is deceptive. It looks like the water is almost at the top of the pylon, but I can tell you it was a 4+ metre drop from there to the mud as seen in this photo
I took the next photo from about where the "grey pants" label is..

Yes I agree that is really deceptive isn't it. Would be so interesting to see just how high the water was that weekend prior to Allison's body being found.

 

[Mountain Misst]

From where I took that photo it felt like around 4 metres. Obviously it's deceptive standing on top of something as opposed to below it, but I definitely wasn't trying to jump down there as it was too far to do that.

Happy to go out again tomorrow and take more photo and measurements if people want me too. It's my last free day before I head off on holidays next week so I have some time.

I think you've done a grand job. Thank you very much. Have a beaut holiday.