Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[wakeskate]

Yes I agree that is really deceptive isn't it. Would be so interesting to see just how high the water was that weekend prior to Allison's body being found.

That we will never know until we get a rain event like that weekend. (150-200mm in 24 hours)

 

[Mountain Misst]

Yes I agree that is really deceptive isn't it. Would be so interesting to see just how high the water was that weekend prior to Allison's body being found.

Marly,

After the dam overflow disaster/Brissie floods did Anna Bligh set up a "body"/govt dept where tide surges were measured or some such thing to do with measuring high water levels when there is a big volume of water entering the Brissie river like at Kholo Creek for example. Perhaps there are water levels taken at varying points of the river other than normal tides as an early warning for floods.

If you know what I mean. Or would it be a Brisbane City Council department? There may be records somewhere which could be accessed perhaps so we could check levels round about the time when the body was possibly caught up/washed under the bridge?? SES might know.

 

[enthralled]

From where I took that photo it felt like around 4 metres. Obviously it's deceptive standing on top of something as opposed to below it, but I definitely wasn't trying to jump down there as it was too far to do that.

Happy to go out again tomorrow and take more photo and measurements if people want me too. It's my last free day before I head off on holidays next week so I have some time.

If my car wasn't with mechanic I would offer to come help you. I hope you have a great holiday and want to say thank you for your fantastic sleuthing

 

[Coashugger]

Hi I have been reading posts a lot however have not posted very many. Enjoy reading everyone's thoughts on the case. I was wondering if someone could remember from a previous thread, the post regarding the fact that in a court of law, a lie must be proved to be one that an innocent person would not tell in order to be considered an admission of guilt. Can anyone remember the name of that principle? I thought it was Edward's Principle but can't be sure and all my searches are drawing nothing conclusive. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Hi I have been reading posts a lot however have not posted very many. Enjoy reading everyone's thoughts on the case. I was wondering if someone could remember from a previous thread, the post regarding the fact that in a court of law, a lie must be proved to be one that an innocent person would not tell in order to be considered an admission of guilt. Can anyone remember the name of that principle? I thought it was Edward's Principle but can't be sure and all my searches are drawing nothing conclusive. Any help would be appreciated.

Is it the Lucas direction? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies_(evidence)

 

[alioop]

Hi Wakeskate, thanks for all your great pics and info. If you do get out there tomorrow to do some measurements of the pylon drop ( and rather you than me!!) the tide levels that were similar to the tide at the time Allison's body was found will be at approx 9.10 am or 3.10 pm tomorrow Friday.

Could you also please take some photos of Doc's suggested body drop off points near the fence he mentioned.

 

[Coashugger]

Thanks for that Mountain Misst I follow it up. I appreciate the lead.

 

[Fuskier]

That photo is deceptive. It looks like the water is almost at the top of the pylon, but I can tell you it was a 4+ metre drop from there to the mud as seen in this photo
Now compare it to the photo I took on Monday
(From where I was standing to the mud is a good 4+ metres)

Looks a lot different doesn't it, but if you look at the pipe off in the distance you can see it's only about 0.5m which was the high tide the other day.

Thanks for orienting us Wakeskate. Otherwise we would be disoriented as these photos are deceptive. Appreciate your comeback to correct a point or two. It all helps us develop a more realistic picture of what possibly happened. You have made a great contribution to this Thread. Thank you. All the best for your holidays. MOO

 

[wakeskate]

Hi Wakeskate, thanks for all your great pics and info. If you do get out there tomorrow to do some measurements of the pylon drop ( and rather you than me!!) the tide levels that were similar to the tide at the time Allison's body was found will be at approx 9.10 am or 3.10 pm tomorrow Friday.

Could you also please take some photos of Doc's suggested body drop off points near the fence he mentioned.

She was found at 11am right?
That makes it's 4.5 hrs after the top of the tide. (high tide at at 6:27am on the day she was found)
So I have that at 4:15am or 4:10pm.

 

[Mani]

Thanks for orienting us Wakeskate. Otherwise we would be disoriented as these photos are deceptive. Appreciate your comeback to correct a point or two. It all helps us develop a more realistic picture of what possibly happened. You have made a great contribution to this Thread. Thank you. All the best for your holidays. MOO

I agree. I have looked at that photo of the Council Workers before but never noticed how high the water was up to that capping piece and under the pipes until it was posted with the other photos by Wakeskate.

 

[alioop]

She was found at 11am right?
That makes it's 4.5 hrs after the top of the tide. (high tide at at 6:27am on the day she was found)
So I have that at 4:15am or 4:10pm.

I just went by the tide times for tomorrow in the bottom graph of the link below. I moved the cursor left to right on Fridays levels til I got the times that were as close to 1.1 meters as i could get. Have a go and see if you get the same times as I did.

http://tides.willyweather.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane-river--kholo-creek.html

 

[alioop]

I agree. I have looked at that photo of the Council Workers before but never noticed how high the water was up to that capping piece and under the pipes until it was posted with the other photos by Wakeskate.

That council workers photo is why I have always felt that Allison's body was found below the usual high tide mark. The footprints in the mud in Wakeskate's photo clearly show that area must get covered by water.

 

[wakeskate]

I just went by the tide times for tomorrow in the bottom graph of the link below. I moved the cursor left to right on Fridays levels til I got the times that were as close to 1.1 meters as i could get. Have a go and see if you get the same times as I did.

http://tides.willyweather.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane-river--kholo-creek.html

I see what you mean.
Works out better for me anyway as I need to be home by around 4 anyway.
If I get time tomorrow I will head out and take some photos around 3 and also see if I can get some measurements.

Not really sure what it will tell us though :floorlaugh:

 

[wakeskate]

That council workers photo is why I have always felt that Allison's body was found below the usual high tide mark. The footprints in the mud in Wakeskate's photo clearly show that area must get covered by water.

Given what I saw the other day, the high tide mark is just lapping up against the bottom of the first pylon. (the one the person is standing on in the video) Meaning if the blurred image in that video is the body, then its right at the top of the tide.

 

[alioop]

Not really sure what it will tell us though :floorlaugh:

I am not sure either!

 

[regret]

In that video they state that Allison was a dance teacher is that true?

What is the police officer ion the bridge pointing to? Could only be one thing...from whence the body floated. IMO

 

[Makara]

Allison Baden-Clay's daughters to receive financial boost after Ipswich golf day raises more than $30,000

by: Brian Semmens, Ipswich News
From: Quest Newspapers
August 06, 2012 12:43PM

http://www.couriermail.com.au/quest...-more-than-30000/story-fn8m0yo2-1226443902317

Absolutely fantastic!

 

[itsthevibe]

I haven't been around and simply can't catch up now, so not sure what else has been discussed about where Allisons body was dumped, but in recent discussions about it being washed down has the tree across the creek been taken into account?

If you look to the right up the river from where those SES guys are in the picture, further up there is a large tree right across the creek. When i went out there last with a few others from here, it seemed that if the body was supposedly floating down from that direction it would have got caught on the tree. I couldnt see how the body could have room to fit under the tree if the water level was below the tree, because it would have been too close. But the water would have had to be so high for a body to clear floating above the tree. It just didnt look possible for the water to be that high, even after the heavy rains we had at the time.

We looked at the dark watermark on the pylons, and considered the very highest point, which would have been in January 2011, and so considering that in april 2012 the water would have been high, but still considerably lower than the highest point, I couldnt see a body floating down from anywhere before the tree. I think that's why Mani thought the body could have been washed down Little Ugly Creek and into Kholo Creek from a flow that occurs after the tree closer to the spot where she was found.

Sorry if this doesnt fit in with recent discussions, or has been covered, as i said I am a bit out of touch with what has been raised recently.

 

[linette]

I haven't been around and simply can't catch up now, so not sure what else has been discussed about where Allisons body was dumped, but in recent discussions about it being washed down has the tree across the creek been taken into account?

If you look to the right up the river from where those SES guys are in the picture, further up there is a large tree right across the creek. When i went out there last with a few others from here, it seemed that if the body was supposedly floating down from that direction it would have got caught on the tree. I couldnt see how the body could have room to fit under the tree if the water level was below the tree, because it would have been too close. But the water would have had to be so high for a body to clear floating above the tree. It just didnt look possible for the water to be that high, even after the heavy rains we had at the time.

We looked at the dark watermark on the pylons, and considered the very highest point, which would have been in January 2011, and so considering that in april 2012 the water would have been high, but still considerably lower than the highest point, I couldnt see a body floating down from anywhere before the tree. I think that's why Mani thought the body could have been washed down Little Ugly Creek and into Kholo Creek from a flow that occurs after the tree closer to the spot where she was found.

Sorry if this doesnt fit in with recent discussions, or has been covered, as i said I am a bit out of touch with what has been raised recently.

What you've said makes alot of sense. So Little Ugly creek joins in AFTER the tree, therefore the tree wouldn't be an issue.

Good thinking!!

 

[wakeskate]

We looked at the dark watermark on the pylons, and considered the very highest point, which would have been in January 2011,

The whole bridge was underwater in January 2011, so there would be no marks on any pylons showing you that height, it was all underwater.
The rain on the weekend she was found should have probably added another metre to the level at my guess.

The stain across the first pipe would be the level if I was to guess.