Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #38

[Curiousasacat]

Well surrrprise, surrprise! Tim Zampech the realtor (mentioned in MSM) who is handling the sale of the Gold Coast property is Facebook friends with a Managing Director of Century 21 Five Star Properties, the property management department of Century 21 Coastal and last but not least, the daughter-in-law of Toni Mchugh. Small world huh?

BBM - OMG!!! This is unbelievable.
Do you think the Dickies went home for something and saw the for sale sign? Do you think Ms McHugh might still be around then?

Makara I am sorry for the loss of your shoes but wow you have been doing some great sleuthing girl. Good work x

 

[Maigret]

BBM - OMG!!! This is unbelievable.
Do you think the Dickies went home for something and saw the for sale sign? Do you think Ms McHugh might still be around then?

Makara I am sorry for the loss of your shoes but wow you have been doing some great sleuthing girl. Good work x

This is all so sleazy and underhand - really beggars belief that he and his family are that stupid and arrogant. Did they believe this would all go undetected? I hope (as someone else already said) that the ASIC and the ATO are looking long and hard at the financial shenanigans of the entire clan. Surely if he is not entitled to sell the house then the sale can not go ahead. Ordinary Joe Blow would pull out for fear of complications over the title but if it's one of the crooked friends or family they will dig their heels in hoping for it to go ahead.

 

[chekoutchik]

September 07, 2012

THE secret sale of an investment property bought for Allison Baden-Clay and her brother cannot be stopped by her family despite father Geoff Dickie being appointed administrator of her estate.
The Courier-Mail revealed yesterday that Mrs Baden-Clay's husband, Gerard, who is accused of her murder, secretly sold the Gold Coast nest egg from his prison cell at Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre.
It's understood he legally did this by writing to the Australian Securities and Investments Commission and advising them that his wife was no longer alive, making him sole director of the company World of Top Step Pty Ltd, which owned the property.
Baden-Clay said in court documents lodged in the Supreme Court earlier this year that: "In essence, Allison and I jointly own the property with her brother and his wife."
Despite not informing his in-laws first, Baden-Clay this week facilitated the sale of the three-bedroom house, which he estimated was worth $400,000 to $450,000, according to Supreme Court documents.
In an affidavit lodged in court, Mrs Baden-Clay's father, Geoff Dickie, said he became concerned that the advertising of the property for sale by auction on September 16 meant, "Gerard is taking steps to dispose of an asset in which Allison's estate may have an interest".

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...om-going-through/story-fndo1yus-1226466805357

Yes, I was wondering how Mr Dickie would be able to halt this. Just because he has been granted permission to administer the Estate, doesn't give him the right to administer WOTS now that Allison has been stripped of her Directorship. Unfortunately, GBC remains the sole Director of WOTS and if he chooses not to distribute a share to others from the proceeds of the sale, Allison simply won't have a stake in it.

I stand to be corrected on this but in my mind it makes sense sadly. There needs to be a way to reverse that decision by ASIC to appoint GBC as sole Director I think. IMHO

 

[Blue Bottle]

There needs to be a way to reverse that decision by ASIC to appoint GBC as sole Director I think. IMHO

To my understanding, there is a negative side about being a Director of a Company.

It also means that as a Director, you are responsible to pay for and are accountable for any debts that company has.

I hardly think anyone in their right mind would want to step in and become a joint Director with a Company in a situation such as this Company is in where it's future and stability is in question.

 

[Fuskier]

... I'm really concerned about the prosecution stating that GBC allegedly murdered Allison because he was in debt to the tune of a million dollars. IMO that is not the reason why he murdered her at all and I feel the defence will tear this one apart.

Great sleuthing Makara and Alioop. Just a query - I'm not sure the Prosecution are alleging that debt is the motive for the murder. They appear to have stated that at the time of the murder, the alleged murderer was in debt to the tune of nearly $1 mil. It appears to be a co-contributing factor towards possible motive. There are several other co-contributing factors. My opinion only. However, it could appear that the alleged murderer is working to reduce this angle from behind bars and there may be people willing to assist him to achieve this goal before the matter is heard in a Criminal Court. My opinion only, not fact.

 

[Nads]

Unfortunately, GBC remains the sole Director of WOTS and if he chooses not to distribute a share to others from the proceeds of the sale, Allison simply won't have a stake in it.

Imagine if he does decide to keep all the profits. He would be public enemy number one!!

 

[Ippygal]

What I don't get in all this- its a very high profile case- wouldn't someone at ASIC have recognised the names and thought "Hmmm??".... ????

 

[Opinionsgalore]

The property in Paradise Point in zone C (unit block ?) I've checked other properties in the street and they're zone B (duplexes). Whoever bought it stands to make a substantial sum-especially considering it was sold below value.



All MOO.

 

[chekoutchik]

Thankfully though, GBC has admitted in his Bail Application Affidavit to the Court that Allison, her brother and sister in law have an interest in the property [I read this online but cannot find link again - help!]. Hopefully this will give the Dickies some authority to act in time for settlement.

The most troubling aspect of this is the sale price, sold for 1/3 less than it could have been. That could have been the girls school fees done and dusted. Why do I think they have been forsaken by their father? This is a terrible injustice. IMHO

 

[Nads]

I didn't know Toni McHugh had a daughter in law?

 

[Nads]

Thankfully though, GBC has admitted in his Bail Application Affidavit to the Court that Allison, her brother and sister in law have an interest in the property [I read this online but cannot find link again - help!]. Hopefully this will give the Dickies some authority to act in time for settlement.

The most troubling aspect of this is the sale price, sold for 1/3 less than it could have been. That could have been the girls school fees done and dusted. Why do I think they have been forsaken by their father? This is a terrible injustice. IMHO

I'm hopeless with finances, but if a mortgage of over $300000 was taken out on the property, won't the sale mostly be used to pay that mortgage?

 

[Fuskier]

... Ordinary Joe Blow would pull out for fear of complications over the title but if it's one of the crooked friends or family they will dig their heels in hoping for it to go ahead.

Agree. Your average citizen may be not want to 'risk' the transfer of 'money' in this situation given potential investigations into the transaction and the Title. However, their business associates may just 'dig in' and hold out - challenging the rules again. As you say Makara 'the investment potential of that property is enormous'. Maybe another of their 'companies' are involved in this transaction somehow. More work for the Forensic Accountants? Again follow the money trail - there must be some kind of monetary gain involved for those who assist with these schemes. My opinion only, not fact.

 

[Blue Bottle]

I'm hopeless with finances, but if a mortgage of over $300000 was taken out on the property, won't the sale mostly be used to pay that mortgage?

That's right. And whoever is legally (as in written on paper), entitled to a share of the property would get their share of what is left.

However, no matter what the situation, someone would still need to be paying the mortgage off on a regular basis. If the situation is such that there is little hope of anyone paying the mortgage at this time, then it's often best to sell it as quickly as possible before the bank forecloses on the house because of payment default.

No love lost with banks. They will sell only to recoop their own debt and costs from you and there are situations where some people still end up owing the bank some money even after a forced house sale.

The low selling cost is not unusual considering the depressed state of real estate and possibly because the mortage payments may be in arrears and thus a quick sale is needed to minimise further losses.

 

[chekoutchik]

To my understanding, there is a negative side about being a Director of a Company.

It also means that as a Director, you are responsible to pay for and are accountable for any debts that company has.

I hardly think anyone in their right mind would want to step in and become a joint Director with a Company in a situation such as this Company is in where it's future and stability is in question.

I agree Blue Bottle that the mortgage, if any on this property and caveats, if any need to be paid out regardless. However, wouldn't it be prudent to have a say in how the residual funds are dispersed? I just hope that the Trustees and Administrator of one said Trustee lodge what they can to ASIC in order to gain enough control to overturn this sale. That means acting RIGHT NOW to fall within the 5 day cooling off period. Failing this cut off it would still be beneficial to be able to disperse funds.

A level 1 or level 2 tier accountant would have the knowledge I would think to really help out right now. Price Waterhouse or William Buck come to mind as firms I might turn to in this situation.

 

[STELLA85]

You could easily bulldoze that house and put up 2 Town houses and make a huge profit. I am so disgusted that he has been able to sell the house from Prison with no regard to his daughters welfare. It seems he has more rights as a convict than Allison's parents have? I really feel for the Dickies and the Girls.

 

[DrWatson]

Just been catching up again, and I have to say that this has been some great sleuthing by Makara and by Alioop, also Marly and others. Good one, troops

Couple of thoughts - if Allison is no longer a director of WOTS, and if WOTS is the entity that is hiring (and presumably racking up the bills) for the legal eagles, then it is to the advantage of her estate that she is NOT a director any more - her estate would then also be responsible for the legal bills. If the legal team are being hired by GBC directly (or NBC), then they would have to transfer the money out of WOTS (who I gather owned the house) into their personal names - and that would invoke all sorts of tax implications. They could distribute the money as dividends to the directors of WOTS, but it would become taxable as personal income. If they kept it in WOTS and paid the legal bills out of there, then there is the question as to how to account for that expense as a legitimate business expense for WOTS.

I'm no accountant, obviously, but I wonder what they have up their sleeves in terms of getting the money OUT of the sale? And if they are honouring the share that belongs to Allison's brother, as well as Allison's estate?

Also, from a legal point of view, would Allison's share depend on her having been a director when the property was bought, or that she may not have been a director when the property was sold? Which would take priority in terms of her entitlement?

 

[Blue Bottle]

I just hope that the Trustees and Administrator of one said Trustee lodge what they can to ASIC in order to gain enough control to overturn this sale. That means acting RIGHT NOW to fall within the 5 day cooling off period. Failing this cut off it would still be beneficial to be able to disperse funds.

I'm not so sure if that is necessarily in the best interest. I have no idea if the so claimed mortage on that house is being paid regularly and if it is not being paid regularly, then the losses could be such that the bank seizes the house anyway and forces a sale which could easily be at a lower cost that it is being 'sold' for now. That sort of situation where the banks can do that easily is pure evil as far as I'm concerned. But then, that's another story.

Being a Company Director can be complicated business and even though Allison is no longer one because of her death (that's normal practice to take a name off at death), that does not mean her estate isn't liable for some of debt that has been incurred while she was Director. Depends on so many viariables and how things were set up.

Mr Dickie has a huge task ahead of him and not an easy one by any means. If he's not Business and Legal savvy he would need the Legal people to do it for him and that costs many many dollars. Too many dollars.

 

[chekoutchik]

Just been catching up again, and I have to say that this has been some great sleuthing by Makara and by Alioop, also Marly and others. Good one, troops

Couple of thoughts - if Allison is no longer a director of WOTS, and if WOTS is the entity that is hiring (and presumably racking up the bills) for the legal eagles, then it is to the advantage of her estate that she is NOT a director any more - her estate would then also be responsible for the legal bills. If the legal team are being hired by GBC directly (or NBC), then they would have to transfer the money out of WOTS (who I gather owned the house) into their personal names - and that would invoke all sorts of tax implications. They could distribute the money as dividends to the directors of WOTS, but it would become taxable as personal income. If they kept it in WOTS and paid the legal bills out of there, then there is the question as to how to account for that expense as a legitimate business expense for WOTS.

I'm no accountant, obviously, but I wonder what they have up their sleeves in terms of getting the money OUT of the sale? And if they are honouring the share that belongs to Allison's brother, as well as Allison's estate?

Also, from a legal point of view, would Allison's share depend on her having been a director when the property was bought, or that she may not have been a director when the property was sold? Which would take priority in terms of her entitlement?

Does anyone have any idea if WOTS is the entity taking the wrap for the legal costs. Surely they can only be in GBC's name? As a mere 1 Trustee of 4, GBC would not be acting in the Trusts best interests. I don't think the other Trustees would allow this to happen. IMHO

 

[Maigret]

Does anyone have any idea if WOTS is the entity taking the wrap for the legal costs. Surely they can only be in GBC's name? As a mere 1 Trustee of 4, GBC would not be acting in the Trusts best interests. I don't think the other Trustees would allow this to happen. IMHO

Well he killed (allegedly) one of them so now it's only three

 

[Curiousasacat]

Nads - I was unaware of the DIL as well, good job by Makara there.
TM has an older lawyer son I believe.
I also thought the Gold Coast house was mortgaged so it would be interesting to see how much is owing.
So if Cheeseman is an accountant it is likely he also helped with the house sale perhaps?

There is something strange (in my non religious opinion) about a website that OW seems to be involved in. Could be a total coincidence re the girls initials.
http://sheis.net.au/
It appears to be run by the Baptist church. Wasn't there a connection with the Baptist Church giving money or signing a witness statement? Of course it could be nothing. MOO