Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #38

[Champagne4lulu]

Edited

 

[Fuskier]

... It just seems so wrong that something that was meant for Alison and her brother primarily (and their partners) could be liquididated to fund her accused murderer's defense.

Is there like a not benefitting from "proceeds of crime" type of thing that applies? I know it's not that but surely there's something similar that would be applicable?

This is the core of the matter IMO. :goodpost:

 

[OakingtonAve]

It is blatantly obvious that morally this is not fair but again, you need to take a step back and realise these are the actions of someone and their family in the depths of desparation - like I said, the actions of a drowning man.

We can all get on our high horse and proclaim that it is wrong, but if YOU were OW and it was YOUR brother accused and IF (ok, big if here) you thought, really thought, that he would be incapable of the crime he was accused of, and if you so desparately wanted to believe in his innocence, then you would do EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING to raise the surety required to try to pay for his legal team.

I know I would.

And let's just suppose, for one minute, that he is innocent (not that it appears likely, granted), then baying for blood seems unwarranted until the full facts of the case are revealed in due course.

Just MOO FWIW

 

[Maigret]

Does anyone know of a supposed break down by GBC ? Perhaps after his legal team saw the weight of evidence?

 

[Champagne4lulu]

It is blatantly obvious that morally this is not fair but again, you need to take a step back and realise these are the actions of someone and their family in the depths of desparation - like I said, the actions of a drowning man.

We can all get on our high horse and proclaim that it is wrong, but if YOU were OW and it was YOUR brother accused and IF (ok, big if here) you thought, really thought, that he would be incapable of the crime he was accused of, and if you so desparately wanted to believe in his innocence, then you would do EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING to raise the surety required to try to pay for his legal team.

I know I would.

And let's just suppose, for one minute, that he is innocent (not that it appears likely, granted), then baying for blood seems unwarranted until the full facts of the case are revealed in due course.

Just MOO FWIW

Well personally I'm not baying for blood. I want the right person to be convicted of their crime. Whether GBC or someone else. My point in the previous post is that it doesn't seem legit to me. And in the very least Allison's share of all this should have gone to her kids. That's all. It's deceptive and it just seems odd to me. I don't dispute anyone's right to defend themselves or their family but at the expense of your family or the law?

 

[OakingtonAve]

Well personally I'm not baying for blood. I want the right person to be convicted of their crime. Whether GBC or someone else. My point in the previous post is that it doesn't seem legit to me. And in the very least Allison's share of all this should have gone to her kids. That's all. It's deceptive and it just seems odd to me. I don't dispute anyone's right to defend themselves or their family but at the expense of your family or the law?

There will always be a shrewd lawyer with a penchant for finding the smallest loophole to circumnavigate through - happens millions of times, every minute of every day, worldwide.

This situation is no different.

Doesn't make it right, just my two cents worth...

 

[Fuskier]

:yesss: I've been following this case for years!

Spousal murder is more evil than I can describe. When I think of those who are watching the person they promised to love forever getting ready to kill them - it chills me to the bone. If I could, I would put all spousal murderers in the middle of a desolate desert and let them all eat rattlesnakes. Just sayin'.

:snake:

May I make a brief comment relating to possible parallels with the murder case in discussion? Prosecutors in the above case faced enormous hurdles. They had no physical evidence tying the alleged murderer to the scene; they had to establish that is was 'murder'. Prosecutors were forced to build their case on circumstantial and heresy evidence setting a precedent before a Jury Conviction for the murder of his 3rd wife. This follows on the back of a recent Tasmanian case where the alleged murderer was also convicted on substantial circumstantial evidence - viewed as precedent. IMO

 

[Champagne4lulu]

Agree oakington. This is just an ugly situation. Whatever will be will be. My only hope in this mess is the right person is convicted and fairly sentenced for the crime. I guess that's what matters here.

 

[Liadan]

It is blatantly obvious that morally this is not fair but again, you need to take a step back and realise these are the actions of someone and their family in the depths of desparation - like I said, the actions of a drowning man.

We can all get on our high horse and proclaim that it is wrong, but if YOU were OW and it was YOUR brother accused and IF (ok, big if here) you thought, really thought, that he would be incapable of the crime he was accused of, and if you so desparately wanted to believe in his innocence, then you would do EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING to raise the surety required to try to pay for his legal team.

I know I would.

And let's just suppose, for one minute, that he is innocent (not that it appears likely, granted), then baying for blood seems unwarranted until the full facts of the case are revealed in due course.

Just MOO FWIW

Oakington - yes this is indeed BC's point of view the flipside- and they need money but seriously would I do it secretly - no! Would I do it with fairness and consideration for the Dickies and all parties involved -you betcha! They need to sell the assets to raise money for the defence completely understandable but the ways and means they did this was almost thinly veiled fraud.

 

[OakingtonAve]

Slightly OT, but is it only me who sees the irony in the so called Top Step of the World P/L or whatever ridiculously altruistic name was chosen?

Should've been House of Cards in hindsight....

 

[alioop]

So where do things stand now do you think? Will he get it all? Or enough to cover his fees? What options do the dickies have to halt the sale or claim interest In Alison/Ashley's share - if any? It just seems so wrong that something that was meant for Alison and her brother primarily (and their partners) could be liquididated to fund her accused murderer's defense.

Is there like a not benefitting from "proceeds of crime" type of thing that applies? I know it's not that but surely there's something similar that would be applicable?

I think that as Mr Dickie now has standing as court appointed administrator of Allison's estate which is a equal shareholder in WOTS, he can now investigate all the finances of WOTs and any company, trust etc that Allison may have had an interest in. That would already be happening.

If the sale is around market value which is based on the value now in the depressed Gold Coast market, then I think the sale will likely go through. Regardless of tax issues as they will be what they will be and are not payable for a couple of years anyway, it may be beneficial for the estate to separate her assets from GBC's, payout debts and any entitlement of Allison's family. Then Allison's estate assets can be separately invested for the benefit of whoever is ultimately entitled under her will depending on if GBC is convicted. That is Mr Dickie's job to do.

GBC is entitled to use his own assets and that includes any share of the sale proceeds that lawfully may be paid to him, to fund his legal defence. In the legal system he is innocent until proven guilty and can't be denied his own assets to try to defend himself.

 

[OakingtonAve]

Oakington - yes this is indeed BC's point of view the flipside- and they need money but seriously would I do it secretly - no! Would I do it with fairness and consideration for the Dickies and all parties involved -you betcha! They need to sell the assets to raise money for the defence completely understandable but the ways and means they did this was almost thinly veiled fraud.

Actually, yes, given the situation, the tide of public opinion firmly and unwaveringly against them, the need for urgency and the ever mounting legal fees and stress related to that, then yes, in all probability, I would.

Put yourself for one minute in OW's shoes, however distasteful it seems to you. Become neutral and think - really think about - what YOU would do in her situation.

They believe the children are okay and being taken care of.

Their actions are desperate and all consuming.

The need for funds - quickly - would override any other feelings, both morally and or ethically, that may have been present before this whole situation arose.

I personally would be doing all and everything in my power to try to extracate my brother and family from this mess.

So, I believe, would you...

 

[they'll get you]

Methinks that there is more to all of this than meets the normal honest eyes.

We may have to be very patient until such time as all is revealed.

Could this property have special meanings to the Dickies?
Could this property have created the argument between Allison & GBC?
Did GBC want to sell and diddle the family & Allison & her brother refused to sell?
Possibly she wanted to leave GBC & move close to her parents. I'd love to know who owned the property before the Dickies acquired it. It could have been willed to the Dickie family.

Finally GBC in his greed has sold it as the ultimate slap in the face to Allison & the Dickies.

Anyone got access to RPData to access the prior owners?

Just my thoughts and ramblings....I'm gobsmacked by this underhandedness.

 

[Liadan]

Slightly OT, but is it only me who sees the irony in the so called Top Step of the World P/L or whatever ridiculously altruistic name was chosen?

Should've been House of Cards in hindsight....

Its a blinkin awful name I agree Oak, but probably something he was aiming for the top step of the world puke!

Anyone have any ideas of what else this stupid company name could mean in relation to the family?

 

[Fuskier]

...

GBC is entitled to use his own assets and that includes any share of the sale proceeds that lawfully may be paid to him, to fund his legal defence. In the legal system he is innocent until proven guilty and can't be denied his own assets to try to defend himself.

This is not in dispute, in my opinion.

 

[Liadan]

Actually, yes, given the situation, the tide of public opinion firmly and unwaveringly against them, the need for urgency and the ever mounting legal fees and stress related to that, then yes, in all probability, I would.

Put yourself for one minute in OW's shoes, however distasteful it seems to you. Become neutral and think - really think about - what YOU would do in her situation.

They believe the children are okay and being taken care of.

Their actions are desperate and all consuming.

The need for funds - quickly - would override any other feelings, both morally and or ethically, that may have been present before this whole situation arose.

I personally would be doing all and everything in my power to try to extracate my brother and family from this mess.

So, I believe, would you...

Sorry Oakington - A 100x no. I know you are asking me to be the devils advocate. Appreciate that! And yes the tide of the public opinion is against him he needs fast money. Those assets are part of a company that his late wife and he shared. Just because no one is watching or has to know is not an excuse for lets hurry up and get the money. If he has control of the company then he can still dispose of his assets and collect the cash. And that is not my voice only. There is no way on earth my solicitor would sanction or advise me not to notify all parties - they were his to sell and that sale could go ahead honestly without the Dickies then why the cloak and dagger tactics.

 

[OakingtonAve]

Sorry Oakington - A 100x no. I know you are asking me to be the devils advocate. Appreciate that! And yes the tide of the public opinion is against him he needs fast money. Those assets are part of a company that his late wife and he shared. Just because no one is watching or has to know is not an excuse for lets hurry up and get the money. If he has control of the company then he can still dispose of his assets and collect the cash. And that is not my voice only. There is no way on earth my solicitor would sanction or advise me not to notify all parties - they were his to sell and that sale could go ahead honestly without the Dickies then why the cloak and dagger tactics.

I knew you would take my reply in the way in which it was intended.

BUT, I still stand by what I have written and the reasoning behind it, however skewed it may seem upon face value.

Desperate times call for desperate measures IMHO.

 

[they'll get you]

Sorry Oakington - A 100x no. I know you are asking me to be the devils advocate. Appreciate that! And yes the tide of the public opinion is against him he needs fast money. Those assets are part of a company that his late wife and he shared. Just because no one is watching or has to know is not an excuse for lets hurry up and get the money. If he has control of the company then he can still dispose of his assets and collect the cash. And that is not my voice only. There is no way on earth my solicitor would sanction or advise me not to notify all parties - they were his to sell and that sale could go ahead honestly without the Dickies then why the cloak and dagger tactics.

I agree. If I knew my brother killed ANYONE let alone the mother of my neices I would NOT sell & spend the children's inheritance to get the MURDERER out. I would not run from the media, I would stand shoulder to shoulder with the parents and give ultimate support. I WOULD BE HANGING MY HEAD IN SHAME! I would clear my association and these actions would clear the innocent parties in the public eyes. Yes I'm sure OW still loves her brother BUT I would never show public support to this horror.

 

[Opinionsgalore]

My issue with this is that had Mr Dickie NOT gotten wind of this sale, had he NOT gained approval from the court to oversee Allisons estate, then Allison would be paying (in part) for the legal fees of the person accused of murdering her. It riles me no end that GBC is acting as though it is Allisons responsibility to help pay his legal fees.
I agree that GBC has every right to raise money for his defence, but certainly not at the expense of his children interest, and certainly not in such a slimey, underhanded manner.



All MOO.

 

[Dodo]

Actually, yes, given the situation, the tide of public opinion firmly and unwaveringly against them, the need for urgency and the ever mounting legal fees and stress related to that, then yes, in all probability, I would.

Put yourself for one minute in OW's shoes, however distasteful it seems to you. Become neutral and think - really think about - what YOU would do in her situation.

They believe the children are okay and being taken care of.

Their actions are desperate and all consuming.

The need for funds - quickly - would override any other feelings, both morally and or ethically, that may have been present before this whole situation arose.

I personally would be doing all and everything in my power to try to extracate my brother and family from this mess.

So, I believe, would you...

Yes, see where you are coming from and if I thought my bro was innocent of course i would fight tooth and nail for him. I would do this after hiring a private detective to find out if there was ANYTHING pointing to the possibility of someone else being the murderer, after going public with information about him to every newspaper and television network I could find, protesting his innocence and telling Australia that there is no way he could do such a heinous act. I would have searched for my sister in law, pleaded for information, supported all the ses workers searching for her. Then i would have talked to him every day while they were searching for his missing wife,quizzing, questioning, rallying everybody who was close to her and trying to find even the tiniest bit of evidence that would find the killer. No matter how painful the media intrusion was for myself, I would have used every opportunity to update them how my brother was feeling and what we were doing to find his wife and the suspects. When it was revealed publicly that my brother had been having affairs for several years, I would have taken him into a private room and gone off my head at him for not telling me and asking him why he hadn't told me and were there other things he hadn't revealed about his life with his wife. If he had lied to me about that, were there other things he had lied about. If after hours of interrogation he had still satisfied me of his innocence, and I was one hundred percent sure, yeah, I'd go into bat for him and try and save his ar%#*!


Can't recall too many of those things happening, ahhhhhhhhhhhm nup!!

Ha ha, got a bit passionate there, but I was trying to role play like you suggested and got a bit carried away, hahaha. Got myself banned from another site just recently for being a bit close to the bone, hope I haven't offended you oakington!!!