Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

[marlywings]

Some interesting comments by David Caruso, the director of the advocacy and justice unit at the University of Adelaide about prosecution & defence at bail hearing, committal hearing & trial...

December 16, 2012 - 1:23PM

“In other words this has neatly telegraphed to the prosecution that at the committal stage or the trial stage, there is going to be some suggestion of a defence claim that this was suicide.

“It just puts the prosecution on notice that when they are putting their evidence up, before the cross examination even begins, that they will have to counter that particular theory.”

However the defence is under no obligation to necessary continue with any theories presented during a bail application.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...enclay-case-20121216-2bh94.html#ixzz2FD0Ihk3G

 

[alioop]

Mavericks comments are very insightful and have been proven to be true. Though he did not think Allison's body was dumped where she was found as he believed she would have been found earlier if that was the case and it being too risky given the traffic going over the bridge. But he has got nearly everything else correct.

Where are you Maverick. Come back and say hello.

 

[alioop]

Some interesting comments by David Caruso, the director of the advocacy and justice unit at the University of Adelaide about prosecution & defence at bail hearing, committal hearing & trial...

December 16, 2012 - 1:23PM

“In other words this has neatly telegraphed to the prosecution that at the committal stage or the trial stage, there is going to be some suggestion of a defence claim that this was suicide.

“It just puts the prosecution on notice that when they are putting their evidence up, before the cross examination even begins, that they will have to counter that particular theory.”

However the defence is under no obligation to necessary continue with any theories presented during a bail application.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...enclay-case-20121216-2bh94.html#ixzz2FD0Ihk3G

Thanks Marly for posting that good article. It is right when it says the prosecution now has been given a heads up about the suicide theory, giving it 3 months for relevant witnesses to think about their evidence in view of such a theory. Not exactly a good strategy by the defence I would have thought. But GBC wanted to get out of jail really badly so they must have thought it was worth it for that chance. Didn't work.

 

[enthralled]

After having his 2nd bail application denied I feel that when the time comes GBC will definitely be found guilty. I can't wait. I also hope others will be convicted as well for being accessories or whatever

 

[Radster]

Very interesting thanks Marly - it won't open for me either but I did do a search of maverick.au's posts a while ago and I agree, it is interesting in light of what we now know.

If I had time now I would also do a further search, as I am very sure that someone in earlier threads mentioned the comment about mummy falling down a hole, pretty much verbatim as we now know it - does anyone else remember this? It is amazing how many of the initial stories have turned out to be correct.

Yep, that was me. "Mummy fell down a hole." Verbatim. I realise that the mods have to summarily dismiss anything that is not on MSM as "rumour" but the problem with that approach is that sometimes people close to the story know more than the MSM and also that the MSM often get it very wrong.

 

[Sleuthilicious]

Still trying to catch up! Wow! A lot of new info.

Coincidentally today I saw a white prado with licence plates "BWANA". I nearly shouted "follow that car" to hubby but stopped when I realised they are VIC plates

Good to see GBC won't be sharing Christmas with the girls.

 

[Walk A Mile]

and he didnt mention it in his bumbling tv interview with his sister, they both said she was happy and untroubled.

Are you sure? I seem to recall OW saying she suffered depression as though that might be a factor in her disappearance.

 

[Humdinger]

Are you sure? I seem to recall OW saying she suffered depression as though that might be a factor in her disappearance.

I feel like I remember both...

I think OW said something like she was her usual happy Al or something similar in an interview but also remember another one where someone mentioned her depression...

 

[marlywings]

Are you sure? I seem to recall OW saying she suffered depression as though that might be a factor in her disappearance.

Yep correct...

April 26, 2012

"I spoke to her the night before she disappeared on Thursday night and she seemed fine," she said.

"I saw her last week and she seemed normal, delightful - her normal, easygoing, beautiful-natured, thoughtful, kind-hearted self.

"We just adore Allison, we just want her home," Ms Walton said.

"(We) just cry out to her if she can hear us, if she sees this: Please, darling Al, come home. We love you so much and we want you home."


"Allison suffers from depression, my thoughts are simply consumed with where she might be. I'm not interested in the speculation and rumours."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ry-disappearance/story-e6freoof-1226338290711

 

[KG1]

I've just taken and attached a screen capture of one of Allison's diary entries titled Gratitude List. I can't quite make out the date but it looks to be 16/4/2012. This gratitude list that Allison penned IMO flies in the face of Defence lawyer Mr. Davis' claim that Allison's diary entries were very much indicative that she was suicidal.

I in no way agree with Allison's diary entries being plastered across MSM but I'm more than happy for this one to be seen. It made me smile.

Transcript:
My Gratitude List. 16/4/2012(?)

Today I am grateful for

The loving look I just received from my husband.

The fact I could afford to have my hair done & buy a new top today.

The school I am sitting outside where my girls attend.

For the relationship we have with the teachers & principal.

That we live in such a wonderful Suburb - close to some wonderful after school activities.

For Paula Barratt & the wonderful programme she has written that has helped my family.

Being associated with Pathways at this stage of its growth.

My wonderful parents & their boundless and unconditional love.

My education at IGG & all the friends I made.

RYBG(?) & the places it took me.

Gratitude List.
View attachment 28589

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national...en-clay-crossed-paths-with-husband-s-mistress

This is an excerpt from the Courier Mail of 14 June 2012, when GBC was charged with Allison's murder.

Allison Baden-Clay was an accomplished ballerina who travelled Australia and the UK as a girl with the Australian Youth ballet.

I think the letters quoted as RYBG are actually AYB. with a large filled in dot after the B, when magnified.

 

[KG1]

and he didnt mention it in his bumbling tv interview with his sister, they both said she was happy and untroubled.

But there was one brief TV interview, after GBC had walked back to the car, when OW stated that ABC was 'depressed'. And she was a bit tearful and upset when she spoke. (Was near the carport of Skull Manor).

 

[Humdinger]

Do you think it's possible for people 'OW' etc, to have made up their minds early on and not budge from that regardless of what has been uncovered, said etc etc??
So in an almost delusional way by refusing to accept anything else?

I'm not actually being mean, It's just a thought I had whilst trying to understand why someone would so staunchly stand by someone where so many others see a totally different picture?

 

[alioop]

After having his 2nd bail application denied I feel that when the time comes GBC will definitely be found guilty. I can't wait. I also hope others will be convicted as well for being accessories or whatever

There is a big difference between what a judge has to determine for the purpose of a bail hearing and what a jury has to decide to convict an accused. In between is what a magistrate has to decide to commit an accused to stand trial. Think of it as a ladder, with rungs at the bottom for the bail hearing, rungs a bit higher up for the committal and the second top rung for the trial. I say second top rung as a top rung would mean they had to prove absolutely that he murdered Allison which is not required, only that it is beyond reasonable doubt.

What I am trying to say is there is a long way to go and it will not be an easy task for the prosecution to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that GBC murdered Allison. Just because he has failed at getting bail twice now is not closely related to the prospects of a conviction. I am not trying to be negative, just pointing out the legal requirements.

 

[alioop]

This is an excerpt from the Courier Mail of 14 June 2012, when GBC was charged with Allison's murder.

Allison Baden-Clay was an accomplished ballerina who travelled Australia and the UK as a girl with the Australian Youth ballet.

I think the letters quoted as RYBG are actually AYB. with a large filled in dot after the B, when magnified.

Good sleuthing KG1. I was trying unsuccessfully to work out what that meant.

 

[marlywings]

Yep, that was me. "Mummy fell down a hole." Verbatim. I realise that the mods have to summarily dismiss anything that is not on MSM as "rumour" but the problem with that approach is that sometimes people close to the story know more than the MSM and also that the MSM often get it very wrong.

To be fair...I don't recall too much being "very wrong" throughout the reports on this case. One has to keep in mind, police will only release details which they decide can be reported so as not to hinder their investigation in any way. Also, with all the journalism rules/regulations they have to play it safe.

With Friday's bail hearing, it was noted on Twitter, the journos comments were being vetted by lawyers before it could be reported in MSM.

There's always the option for you to become a WS verified insider...you could then post whatever you "hear".

 

[pinhead]

Saw NBC and one of the girls in traffic on kenmore roundabout this week in original BWANAmobile.

 

[Thinking]

But there was one brief TV interview, after GBC had walked back to the car, when OW stated that ABC was 'depressed'. And she was a bit tearful and upset when she spoke. (Was near the carport of Skull Manor).

Thanks KG1. I really don't want to suffer through that interview again, but I recall that the question about allisons state of mind was really where he fell down and lost any trace of sincerity - the journalist asked him if Allison was upset and he said "no" then quickly changed the direction to something about "we've told the police everything we know" or words to that effect. He could not directly answer the question regarding Allison's frame of mind.

 

[summer_breeze]

Welcome to WebSleuths Isk79EQ, pinhead and MichaelSmith!

:wagon:

 

[enthralled]

There is a big difference between what a judge has to determine for the purpose of a bail hearing and what a jury has to decide to convict an accused. In between is what a magistrate has to decide to commit an accused to stand trial. Think of it as a ladder, with rungs at the bottom for the bail hearing, rungs a bit higher up for the committal and the second top rung for the trial. I say second top rung as a top rung would mean they had to prove absolutely that he murdered Allison which is not required, only that it is beyond reasonable doubt.

What I am trying to say is there is a long way to go and it will not be an easy task for the prosecution to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that GBC murdered Allison. Just because he has failed at getting bail twice now is not closely related to the prospects of a conviction. I am not trying to be negative, just pointing out the legal requirements.

I know what your saying is correct Alioop. I am just going on the thought that surely the jury will have common sense and after hearing all his lies etc will see he did it. Most on here seem to think he is guilty. I know the jury will hear a lot more before we do but a jury is made up of everyday citizens like we are.
Maybe I should have said it like my mother would "I can feel it in my waters" lol

 

[Susan12]

Do you think it's possible for people 'OW' etc, to have made up their minds early on and not budge from that regardless of what has been uncovered, said etc etc??
So in an almost delusional way by refusing to accept anything else?

I'm not actually being mean, It's just a thought I had whilst trying to understand why someone would so staunchly stand by someone where so many others see a totally different picture?

Accomplice perhaps. It's been said hasnt it that she was there before the police arrived?