Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

[Thinking]

There is no current legal basis for a family court judge to prohibit access by the BC's. They have not been charged with any crime and they had a very close relationship with the girls prior to Allison's death and prior to GBC's arrest. It may have been after the Dickie's were given temporary custody when GBC was arrested that the BC's weren't allowed contact with them but as time has moved on and no further arrests made, they have obviously been allowed contact as being in the interests of the girls.

Yes I do understand the legalities of this aspect. I guess I just "feel it in my waters" that it would be better if contact were supervised at this stage

 

[alicat]

Where abouts was mummy BWANA on the morning? We have heard about OW and dad BWANA, but where was she?

Wondering if someone of a legal background could answer this, but if one of the family did know of what happened to Allison and they decided to fess up what would happen to them? Would they get done for being an Accessory etc? (Just noticed someone mentioned about OW and why she has stood by the family).

Also, everytime I read 'Skull Manor' it makes me laugh. If they have insiders reading this forum (we know you do!) then why not get rid of the skulls? Or maybe they have gone all out and decorated them in Christmas lights? **shudders**

As for GBC, being referred to GB (Gorgeous Boy) I threw up in my mouth. Terrible, yuck.

 

[alioop]

OW was very quiet in court.

 

[enthralled]

I am thinking that OW played the biggest accessory part and that is why she is the one in the TV interview, pushing for donations and appearing at court hearings. I think she is worried that if GBC goes down then she is next in line.
MOO

 

[alioop]

I've just learned from a CM reporter that the Face Time call was disproven. It is mentioned in court documents. It was also brought up at a Family Court hearing. :what:

I am keeping an open mind about this until we know facts. The call clearly is on GBC's phone records, I have seen the relevant page of those records myself.

Maybe it is not the call that is disputed but how or who made it, I just don't know.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

I haven't personally, but I was recently speaking to someone who was telephoned by OW asking for $$ before the first bail hearing. Apparently they politely said they weren't able to donate any funds (as if!), and she was quite snappy and rude in response - that's the way to get people on side, yes?

Thank you Thinking.

The whole money issue in this case perplexes me in many ways.

First, who in their right mind would bankroll GBC's bail bond? Many people must have done so to get the $800,000. Are they canvassing OW's hubbies parishioners? If so, that's a serious abuse of position / power / privilege.

GBC seems to suffer from shifting fortunes. On the one hand, he shamelessly begged large amounts of money from contacts, yet was able to sell a property (albeit, not entirely his) to fund his defense. Prior to this, for his first hearing, OW had to beg money (from ?) to pay $30,000 (I think) for his legal team to show up.

A QC friend estimated that the second bail hearing would have cost at least $50,000. I thought that it would have been more. Then there's the rest of the show to pay for. How can a man who, prior to the murder, was so desperate for money, that he was prepared to grovel for it??

Now the defense is claiming that GBC has little debt!!

Maybe GBC suffers from what I call "selective poverty" in which people pick and choose where they get their money from (ideally not their own) and how they spend it. Sufferers of "selective poverty" prefer to use other people's money and resources whenever possible. However, despite their poverty status, are able to meet their needs for luxuries etc which are usually unavailable to the "real" poor.

Some other thoughts:

I used a www calculator to estimate how long it would take someone like Allison to walk the 14 km to where she was found. It was amost 5 hours. If she was unused to such walking, it would have taken longer.

 

[possumheart]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/diary-reveals-betrayal-of-allison-badenclay-20121217-2biqi.html

nothing new

 

[possumheart]

Thank you Thinking.

The whole money issue in this case perplexes me in many ways.

First, who in their right mind would bankroll GBC's bail bond? Many people must have done so to get the $800,000. Are they canvassing OW's hubbies parishioners? If so, that's a serious abuse of position / power / privilege.

GBC seems to suffer from shifting fortunes. On the one hand, he shamelessly begged large amounts of money from contacts, yet was able to sell a property (albeit, not entirely his) to fund his defense. Prior to this, for his first hearing, OW had to beg money (from ?) to pay $30,000 (I think) for his legal team to show up.

A QC friend estimated that the second bail hearing would have cost at least $50,000. I thought that it would have been more. Then there's the rest of the show to pay for. How can a man who, prior to the murder, was so desperate for money, that he was prepared to grovel for it??

Now the defense is claiming that GBC has little debt!!

Maybe GBC suffers from what I call "selective poverty" in which people pick and choose where they get their money from (ideally not their own) and how they spend it. Sufferers of "selective poverty" prefer to use other people's money and resources whenever possible. However, despite their poverty status, are able to meet their needs for luxuries etc which are usually unavailable to the "real" poor.

Some other thoughts:

I used a www calculator to estimate how long it would take someone like Allison to walk the 14 km to where she was found. It was amost 5 hours. If she was unused to such walking, it would have taken longer.

ddsmiley: good post!

 

[Makara]

I am keeping an open mind about this until we know facts. The call clearly is on GBC's phone records, I have seen the relevant page of those records myself.

Maybe it is not the call that is disputed but how or who made it, I just don't know.

Yes I agree Alioop. I've also seen those records. It may be as you say that it is about how and who made the call. It could also be that it wasn't in fact a FaceTime call but a normal phone call. Why it was brought up in a Family Law court is concerning. Was NBC wanting to clear himself in regard to that FaceTime call to his phone so that he and Mrs. Bwana could have access to the girls?

 

[Nads]

As for GBC, being referred to GB (Gorgeous Boy) I threw up in my mouth. Terrible, yuck.

Particularly yuck for me as my dog is called BG (Beautiful Girl)! Blame the pet rescue for the name, not me.

 

[alioop]

Thank you Thinking.

The whole money issue in this case perplexes me in many ways.

First, who in their right mind would bankroll GBC's bail bond? Many people must have done so to get the $800,000. Are they canvassing OW's hubbies parishioners? If so, that's a serious abuse of position / power / privilege.

GBC seems to suffer from shifting fortunes. On the one hand, he shamelessly begged large amounts of money from contacts, yet was able to sell a property (albeit, not entirely his) to fund his defense. Prior to this, for his first hearing, OW had to beg money (from ?) to pay $30,000 (I think) for his legal team to show up.

A QC friend estimated that the second bail hearing would have cost at least $50,000. I thought that it would have been more. Then there's the rest of the show to pay for. How can a man who, prior to the murder, was so desperate for money, that he was prepared to grovel for it??

Now the defense is claiming that GBC has little debt!!

Maybe GBC suffers from what I call "selective poverty" in which people pick and choose where they get their money from (ideally not their own) and how they spend it. Sufferers of "selective poverty" prefer to use other people's money and resources whenever possible. However, despite their poverty status, are able to meet their needs for luxuries etc which are usually unavailable to the "real" poor.

Some other thoughts:

I used a www calculator to estimate how long it would take someone like Allison to walk the 14 km to where she was found. It was amost 5 hours. If she was unused to such walking, it would have taken longer.

Lots of good points and I agree with your friend's estimate of the cost of the bail application. Regarding the part that I have bolded about GBC's debt, from my understanding of hearing it discussed in court is that when the forensic accounting was done, it showed that at the time of Allison's death that they had plenty of debt but that when the paper value of his rent roll was offset against the debt that the amount of actual debt was $58,000. But they didn't have the cash for the value of the rent roll, if they did they would not have been for eg maxed out on the credit cards or GBC crying to get a loan. So I don't know if his rent roll has since been sold, it probably has to another real estate agent at a discount.

So as to what GBC's current financial position is, I can only guess that it is massively in debt even after the sale of the rent roll. He surely would have nothing left after paying whatever he had for legal fees.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

Lots of good points and I agree with your friend's estimate of the cost of the bail application. Regarding the part that I have bolded about GBC's debt, from my understanding of hearing it discussed in court is that when the forensic accounting was done, it showed that at the time of Allison's death that they had plenty of debt but that when the paper value of his rent roll was offset against the debt that the amount of actual debt was $58,000. But they didn't have the cash for the value of the rent roll, if they did they would not have been for eg maxed out on the credit cards or GBC crying to get a loan. So I don't know if his rent roll has since been sold, it probably has to another real estate agent at a discount.

So as to what GBC's current financial position is, I can only guess that it is massively in debt even after the sale of the rent roll. He surely would have nothing left after paying whatever he had for legal fees.

You've got to wonder if there was any value left for that rent roll after everything that went down. Particularly when it was reported in msm how financially things were not good.

Moo.

 

[Amee]

any ideas how much it has cost them so far and what its going to cost in total?
would the police still have the Captiva impounded as it was leased what would happen there?

 

[EllaN]

This might be a silly question, but could someone please clarify what "owning a rent roll means"? Do you mean the commission the agent collects before depositing the money into the landlord's account. And how can you sell a rent roll. If for example a real estate agent closed shop, I would phone around and find a new real estate agent myself. How can that be sold without asking the landlord's permission?

 

[DrWatson]

This might be a silly question, but could someone please clarify what "owning a rent roll means"? Do you mean the commission the agent collects before depositing the money into the landlord's account. And how can you sell a rent roll. If for example a real estate agent closed shop, I would phone around and find a new real estate agent myself. How can that be sold without asking the landlord's permission?

The rent roll is the list of rental properties that they have, on which they act for the owners. It is an asset for the business, and can be on-sold to another real estate agent for whatever consideration they agree upon. I seem to recall hearing it mentioned that there is some sort of formula for working out the value of the rent roll as an asset to the business, based on the number of rental properties, amount of rent, etc etc. Perhaps somebody with real estate knowledge could clarify that...?

Our family had a couple of rental properties through their Century 21 business, but when things went belly up and the office moved its business premises to Toowong, those properties were removed from that rent roll and are now run by another real estate agent. And as far as I know, there isn't any hanky panky going on at the new place...

I also don't know what happened to the rest of the rent roll, eg how many properties were left on it after all the publicity.

 

[Bayside]

This might be a silly question, but could someone please clarify what "owning a rent roll means"? Do you mean the commission the agent collects before depositing the money into the landlord's account. And how can you sell a rent roll. If for example a real estate agent closed shop, I would phone around and find a new real estate agent myself. How can that be sold without asking the landlord's permission?

Real estates build up and sell off rent rolls all the time. Sometimes the owners are not happy when a new agent takes over and will leave when their contract is up. Sometimes they can be happier with the new company, just depends.

I have a client that I have worked with for over 20 years who started with just a few rentals. She has a very good rep and has reached the max of rentals that she wants as she does not want to move office location or hire any more staff. So she will pick out 50 - 100 properties at a time and sell them on.

I think a lot of owners would have already left Gerard by now so he wouldnt have a very large rent roll to sell anyway.

 

[Bayside]

You've got to wonder if there was any value left for that rent roll after everything that went down. Particularly when it was reported in msm how financially things were not good.

Moo.

The rent roll will still have value but he would have to discount the sale of it under the circumstances.

It really depends how many properties he has managed to retain, I doubt it would be too many.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

The rent roll will still have value but he would have to discount the sale of it under the circumstances.

It really depends how many properties he has managed to retain, I doubt it would be too many.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm getting at. I wouldn't have thought there'd be many left at all, so value would be pretty low. That's why I can't figure out why the defence would be able to factor that in to his financial situation. Perhaps it would have been a reasonable asset before this, but after...?

 

[marlywings]

Sorry, first ever post, so just getting the hang of it.
Yes, alioop, I think that the police may have pieced together a lot more about what GBC did that morning in the Captiva. I distinctly remember seeing a television report about police searching industrial bins in those first few days. I think they knew he'd disposed of crucial evidence. For some reason, I'd always had in my mind that those bins were at Indooroopilly Shoppingtown, but I don't know whether that's what I deduced from the image on TV, or from the local rumour mill. (which I have to say is proving to be a quite reliable source!!!)

Hi privato & welcome to Websleuths...

The news video in which searching industrial bins is mentioned is still on youtube...

Warning...it also contains GBC's "little bit hurt" blah blah...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c76CI6vtixI"]The Gerard Baden-Clay Interview, (His wife Allison Beden-Clay still missing) UPDATE BODY FOUND - YouTube[/ame]

 

[alicat]

Hi privato & welcome to Websleuths...

The news video in which searching industrial bins is mentioned is still on youtube...

Warning...it also contains GBC's "little bit hurt" blah blah...

Uggghhhh I watched it, I shouldn't have! His voice, his mannerisms, HIM!

'Thank you. I'm sorry.'

What are you sorry for GBC?!????