Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

[ollijack]

Sorry, I need to keep going.... lol

Their "crocodile tears". Who shed crocodile tears????
The public and media seemed so much more affected than the family that chose to stay holed up in skull manor and appeal for understanding while they made life "normal" for the girls. Where were their tears????
The only tears I saw, were GBC's and OW's "crocodile tears".

So, why the aggression?

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...allisons-in-laws/story-e6freoof-1226390060831

Thankyou Obsessor. That was a really good post *advertiser censored*

 

[LadyBird1]

This is quite deep and full of meaning .......... I get it ...... as I feel sure others do too, but unfortunately will escape many others. Wonder where he learned it, but hopefully he will stop it.

Please Couldbe, not quite sure what part of this you think will escape others.

The Gaslighting, the Showmanship, the general overall Charade, the Falseness of speech or the remoteness from any thing genuinely real? Publicity seemed quite acceptable in the beginning too, until the tables turned.

I am not trying to be facetious or argumentative. But in the beginning I thought he, IW was a real pastor.
Now, I am overwhelmed with a sadness that Allison was confronted with falsehoods, deceit, lies, manipulations with every turn she took. Excluding her own blood family.
She would have firstly trusted and loved her husband.
Then, She would have desired to trust and love her in-laws.
Then, She would have desired to trust at least her sister in law.
Then, She should have been able to trust the bloody Pastor.
"A wolf in sheep's clothing" words keep appearing before me.
Then even her death, they appear to want their pound of flesh.
Money and abstinence from any manner of guilt. No-where ever has any one witnessed any of them seeking with righteous anger, Allison's killer.

 

[Liadan]

His (the pastor) attitude in Allison's death is not so different to what I imagine happened to Allison in real life. They would be thinking - oh yes Allison is going through a tough time, she is depressed and GBC says she is teary and gets upset way too easily - lets just ignore her behaviour. But thank goodness GBC has this great friend in TM - wow what a relief for him and the kids and when Allison is back well we will deal with that then. But she is letting the side down at the moment - she is not being that wife and helper GBC married - he is doing it so tough not having Allison's support.

I reckon that is the crock of shyte that Allison had to deal with being part of this loathesome duplicit family.

 

[Couldbe]

Please Couldbe, not quite sure what part of this you think will escape others.

The Gaslighting, the Showmanship, the general overall Charade, the Falseness of speech or the remoteness from any thing genuinely real? Publicity seemed quite acceptable in the beginning too, until the tables turned.

I am not trying to be facetious or argumentative. But in the beginning I thought he, IW was a real pastor.
Now, I am overwhelmed with a sadness that Allison was confronted with falsehoods, deceit, lies, manipulations with every turn she took. Excluding her own blood family.
She would have firstly trusted and loved her husband.
Then, She would have desired to trust and love her in-laws.
Then, She would have desired to trust at least her sister in law.
Then, She should have been able to trust the bloody Pastor.
"A wolf in sheep's clothing" words keep appearing before me.
Then even her death, they appear to want their pound of flesh.
Money and abstinence from any manner of guilt. No-where ever has any one witnessed any of them seeking with righteous anger, Allison's killer.

....heartfelt understanding of Allison's plight.
Such a voracious appetite for their own importance and greed is all that they are projecting.....each and every one of them.

 

[Cyansea]

You have to wonder what his religious beliefs really are huh? What does he teach his followers and children. Scary!

I know what you are saying and I agree. Seems Adam (the brother) did the best thing he could have when he moved to the other side of the world.

Curiousasacat, I found this, as I was wondering ^ also, it's a podcast by IW very interesting, it's long but I got an insight into some of the thinking which makes me really :what:
Podcast recorded August, 2011.
http://www.northreach.net/bible-mes...ian-walton-husbands-and-wives-submitting.html

Hope ok to post as gives insight I think. Make of it what you will but I found it very interesting, even talking about how children need to 'obey' their parents, his take on that.

Also, I had read somewhere earlier in the threads, again can't recall, that IW worked at Flight Centre. Did he meet GBC at Flight Centre, did he know Allison at Flight Centre, how did he meet OW? i.e. whom did he meet first?

He mentions David Guzik in podcast.

David Guzik's Commentaries
on the Bible
http://www.studylight.org/com/guz/view.cgi?book=col&chapter=003

3. (18-19) The new man's marriage relationship.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.

a. Wives, submit: The ancient Greek word translated submit is essentially a word borrowed from the military. It literally means "to be under in rank." It speaks of the way that an army is organized among levels of rank. You have Generals and Colonels and Majors and Captains and Sergeants and Privates. There are levels of rank, and you are obligated to respect those in higher rank.

 

[Mountain Misst]

I had to look up gormless in the dictionary. This same "gormless" person had a twitter account going well after all this, where he was very vocal about all things political, and some things social. He also was professing a supposed allegiance to family and his religion. I was surprised and shocked about what appeared to be pontifications and self advertising. Not because he is a so called pastor, but because I thought he would be in a grief state over a murdered close family member.

The person of your interest has not left the social media sites - just taken a side step and re-opened in another alias.

 

[LadyBird1]

The person of your interest has not left the social media sites - just taken a side step and re-opened in another alias.

Hmmm Is that how one can skate around social media sites without people recognizing you are one and the same person?
Wonder if each alias has a separate personality?
Wonder if this is for one's own benefit?
Or wonder if this simply allows one to be a mouth with different aliases?
Or wonder if this a way to manage relationships more discreetly?
Or wonder if one is hiding something behind a name.
Interesting.
trytobegracious appears to have disappeared.
And who knows what else?

 

[Obsessor]

I'm gobsmacked at the distorted realitly ALL Allisons in-laws seem to live in. (not Adam)Its very frightening.
This pastor, has made so little of her untimely passing, and the circumstances surrounding it, yet has been so vocal and outraged over what I see as minor issues or non-existant issues. Can you believe his outrage over the "imagined" rumours? None were witten in msm or broadcast.

Lastly, the chosen quote he used in his blog, "struck down but not destroyed". I mean, surely, he could have spent a little more time and care on his choice here.
I know he's referring to the "rest of the family", but hello, Allison WAS destroyed. She cant come back from this. She cant bunker down and fend off the accusations directed at the family. No, she is destroyed!!!!!!!

How callous and insensitive,

Clearly, they had a them and us attitude towards Allison, because she was not included in the "struck down but not destroyed" comraderie.

 

[Couldbe]

I'm gobsmacked at the distorted realitly ALL Allisons in-laws seem to live in. (not Adam)Its very frightening.
This pastor, has made so little of her untimely passing, and the circumstances surrounding it, yet has been so vocal and outraged over what I see as minor issues or non-existant issues. Can you believe his outrage over the "imagined" rumours? None were witten in msm or broadcast.

Lastly, the chosen quote he used in his blog, "struck down but not destroyed". I mean, surely, he could have spent a little more time and care on his choice here.
I know he's referring to the "rest of the family", but hello, Allison WAS destroyed. She cant come back from this. She cant bunker down and fend off the accusations directed at the family. No, she is destroyed!!!!!!!

How callous and insensitive,

Clearly, they had a them and us attitude towards Allison, because she was not included in the "struck down but not destroyed" comraderie.

The incongruity of their statements about their feelings for Allison is just so evident.
Prior to Allison's death, they were soldiering on, despite the strong feelings about their mounting very very large debt, trying to keep appearances while doing their best to 'correct' their finances......the focus has now been shifted, but a boost to the finances is still much needed.......will still remain resolute in their endeavours to gain money. Surely the Media would never 'come to the party'.

 

[LadyBird1]

I'm gobsmacked at the distorted realitly ALL Allisons in-laws seem to live in. (not Adam)Its very frightening.
This pastor, has made so little of her untimely passing, and the circumstances surrounding it, yet has been so vocal and outraged over what I see as minor issues or non-existant issues. Can you believe his outrage over the "imagined" rumours? None were witten in msm or broadcast.

Lastly, the chosen quote he used in his blog, "struck down but not destroyed". I mean, surely, he could have spent a little more time and care on his choice here.
I know he's referring to the "rest of the family", but hello, Allison WAS destroyed. She cant come back from this. She cant bunker down and fend off the accusations directed at the family. No, she is destroyed!!!!!!!

How callous and insensitive,

Clearly, they had a them and us attitude towards Allison, because she was not included in the "struck down but not destroyed" comraderie.

I find usage of this quote from scripture "struck down but not destroyed" deeply offensive in this context. Because Allison WAS struck down AND destroyed.
This infers that Allison didn't even count. Not one jot, not one iota.
This also infers that only the BC family (excluding Adam) matters here.
This also infers that IW blatantly uses scripture to suit his own ends.

 

[Obsessor]

I find usage of this quote from scripture "struck down but not destroyed" deeply offensive in this context. Because Allison WAS struck down AND destroyed.
This infers that Allison didn't even count. Not one jot, not one iota.
This also infers that only the BC family (excluding Adam) matters here.
This also infers that IW blatantly uses scripture to suit his own ends.

This is exactly how I see it. Totally horrifying on every level.

 

[Couldbe]

I find usage of this quote from scripture "struck down but not destroyed" deeply offensive in this context. Because Allison WAS struck down AND destroyed.
This infers that Allison didn't even count. Not one jot, not one iota.
This also infers that only the BC family (excluding Adam) matters here.
This also infers that IW blatantly uses scripture to suit his own ends.

...didn't remember to be a 'true' Christian!
.....or just keeping everything separate (Allison's death need not be related in any way, after all she is not here any more .....and their survival is more important), 'so let's get on with it'.

 

[Crime and punishment]

http://www.northreach.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/120212.pdf
Here's a link to a church Bulletin from early last year before Allison's murder. There's a picture of the Walton family some of you may not have seen- they are there smiling and happy unaware of what the year would bring. Ian wrote the front page article.
Now -I don't doubt the likelihood of Gerard being found guilty but I'm a bit surprised by the sting in some recent comments about Ian. He wrote that blog at a time he was hurting. Have a think how you would react. The choice of scripture was not the best but he wasnt talking about Allison- at that stage he probably believed his brother-in-law was innocent (not sure how they can still believe that) and if you have ever been the public eye the media can be relentless and sneaky. Ian has set aside his life to help people and from the contact I have had with him he does that. It's a big shame he wasn't able to help Allison. The blinkers were on and Gerard was incredibly devious. I can't see they would have condoned the affair he was having with T. They probably only thought she was a work colleague. Gerard could do no wrong and all that. IMO

 

[Obsessor]

With full respect C&P, I think the comments were fair. As someone who knows nothing of this man except that he is Allisons brother-in-law, I am not commenting at all on the man or what he has done before the murder, or since. Your opinion there is probably very accurate and I respect that, but your question, how would you react? that is the point that has disturbed me sooo much.
As I said, I would be devastated, in a state of disbelief and horror. Murder?? of a middle class mother of 3??? Incomprehensible.
I would also be supportive and thankful of the police, the SES, the volunteers, the grieving public, and doing what I could to help and thank.
I would be vowing to help the family; GBC and the girls as much as I could.
I would realise the long road of grief and rebuilding that was before everyone involved, and I would be concentraing on that rather than slinging abuse towards outsiders. I think most people would be the same.

I do believe that what he wrote was insensitive and poorly chosen. I know it was not written for the greater public, but nonetheless, if you write something on social media you expect it to be read, and he could have been so different with what he said and how he said it. After all, he was experienced at public speaking.

It matters not in the scheme of things. As you say, GBC appears guilty of this crime from what we have heard, and we all wonder for how long his family will unwaiveringly support him.

There is just something very off about the whole piece, especially if this family cared for Allison deeply. I'm afraid his choice of words doesn't sound as if they did.

My opinion only.

I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone.

 

[Liadan]

With full respect C&P, I think the comments were fair. As someone who knows nothing of this man except that he is Allisons brother-in-law, I am not commenting at all on the man or what he has done before the murder, or since. Your opinion there is probably very accurate and I respect that, but your question, how would you react? that is the point that has disturbed me sooo much.
As I said, I would be devastated, in a state of disbelief and horror. Murder?? of a middle class mother of 3??? Incomprehensible.
I would also be supportive and thankful of the police, the SES, the volunteers, the grieving public, and doing what I could to help and thank.
I would be vowing to help the family; GBC and the girls as much as I could.
I would realise the long road of grief and rebuilding that was before everyone involved, and I would be concentraing on that rather than slinging abuse towards outsiders. I think most people would be the same.

I do believe that what he wrote was insensitive and poorly chosen. I know it was not written for the greater public, but nonetheless, if you write something on social media you expect it to be read, and he could have been so different with what he said and how he said it. After all, he was experienced at public speaking.

It matters not in the scheme of things. As you say, GBC appears guilty of this crime from what we have heard, and we all wonder for how long his family will unwaiveringly support him.

There is just something very off about the whole piece, especially if this family cared for Allison deeply. I'm afraid his choice of words doesn't sound as if they did.

My opinion only.

I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone.

I agree Obsessor and apologies C&P but from nearly day 1 of the murder investigation all we heard was how horribly the media was treating the BC family. The BC family were literally running away from the media. And yes, there is no doubt the media are intrusive and bullish but GBC had long courted them in his quest to raise his profile in the community and suddenly he is not interested in being the centre of attention. The media were held at arms length and the whole family were holed up at the senior BC house - their choice. They had nothing to say fair enough but when they do speak - its not to ask for leads find the perpertrator - its to complain about their treatment and how unfairly their side of the story has been portrayed. Victims of the cameras and the media machinations. It is good to know that the house abounds with abounding love and deep grief but it is too much to show the media? Understandable given the situation. And actions can speak louder than words.
But - it is when IW decides to start with the propaganda 'the salacious rumours and crocodile tears'- what rumours and what crocodile tears. Allisons plight was universally identifiable. A dedicated, devoted mother stolen from her babies. In its purest form -Allison's death/murder was beyond tragedy and heartbreak. The wake of devastation it left for the girls, the Dickies, family, friends and community-how could this be described as the media masquerading crocodile tears? Are we going to blame cheap unthinking journalism for the salacious rumours? - To my mind the respect the media paid Allison, her family (BC's included) and the police was first class - where were the unsubstantiated rumours or the so called name calling - I think we were all surprised at the empathy and fairness of the media reporting.
Imprisoned in their house - well even body language and a sad thoughtful demeanor would have given the media insight to the BC's family's feelings. The media certainly didn't have to second guess what the Dickies were thinking of feeling.
"IW doth protest too much, methinks." - the salacious rumours? was GBC having an affair, was GBC going to leave Allison, did the BC family know about TM? Were the BC family looking after Allison because she suffered depression? Are these the rumours or is IW highlighting more to come....

I guess we will find out!

 

[Berry]

I'm gobsmacked at the distorted realitly ALL Allisons in-laws seem to live in. (not Adam)Its very frightening.
This pastor, has made so little of her untimely passing, and the circumstances surrounding it, yet has been so vocal and outraged over what I see as minor issues or non-existant issues. Can you believe his outrage over the "imagined" rumours? None were witten in msm or broadcast.

Lastly, the chosen quote he used in his blog, "struck down but not destroyed". I mean, surely, he could have spent a little more time and care on his choice here.
I know he's referring to the "rest of the family", but hello, Allison WAS destroyed. She cant come back from this. She cant bunker down and fend off the accusations directed at the family. No, she is destroyed!!!!!!!

How callous and insensitive,

Clearly, they had a them and us attitude towards Allison, because she was not included in the "struck down but not destroyed" comraderie.

:bump::goodpost:

I feel this happens so often when groups/families rearrange the truth and facts to suit their destroying power. This is so sad and not felt by many, but boy Allison did.

"Small minds talk about people" Eleanor Roosevelt

 

[Berry]

With full respect C&P, I think the comments were fair. As someone who knows nothing of this man except that he is Allisons brother-in-law, I am not commenting at all on the man or what he has done before the murder, or since. Your opinion there is probably very accurate and I respect that, but your question, how would you react? that is the point that has disturbed me sooo much.
As I said, I would be devastated, in a state of disbelief and horror. Murder?? of a middle class mother of 3??? Incomprehensible.
I would also be supportive and thankful of the police, the SES, the volunteers, the grieving public, and doing what I could to help and thank.
I would be vowing to help the family; GBC and the girls as much as I could.
I would realise the long road of grief and rebuilding that was before everyone involved, and I would be concentraing on that rather than slinging abuse towards outsiders. I think most people would be the same.

I do believe that what he wrote was insensitive and poorly chosen. I know it was not written for the greater public, but nonetheless, if you write something on social media you expect it to be read, and he could have been so different with what he said and how he said it. After all, he was experienced at public speaking.

It matters not in the scheme of things. As you say, GBC appears guilty of this crime from what we have heard, and we all wonder for how long his family will unwaiveringly support him.

I'm afraid his choice of words doesn't sound as if they did. There is just something very off about the whole piece, especially if this family cared for Allison deeply.

My opinion only.

I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone.

:rocker: Very well said

 

[Crime and punishment]

Certainly no offence taken Obsessor:
I understand the level of feeling this case has generated. That's why I too have followed closely from the early days. We feel the same way- we want the killer behind bars. i just wanted to speak up for Ian who has also married into that family as Allison did. I'm sure it hasn't always been easy for him. When they were all holed up at the Baden-Clays in those days before Allison was found I remember seeing an email to the church about how difficult it was with 6 children and 5 adults all under the one roof but they were having daily Bible study and prayer together. Gerard must have put on a good show joining in with all this- I wonder if his demeanor gave him away to the family at that time? Probably not as Olivia was doing all that fund raising later on- but Ian, I wonder if he picked up anything? He would have skills in reading people surely?
The family decision not to speak to the media was possibly advised by the solicitors. After that awfully awkward interview with Gerard and Olivia it probably was good advice but not to voice concerns over catching the killer, or thanking all the searchers etc doesn't mean they didn't have those sentiments just that it wasn't put out there. Again probably not good in the court of public opinion as was said in that Facebook message. I agree the BCs have made some poor choices how everything was done. I hope all truth comes out!

 

[Couldbe]

I had to look up gormless in the dictionary. This same "gormless" person had a twitter account going well after all this, where he was very vocal about all things political, and some things social. He also was professing a supposed allegiance to family and his religion. I was surprised and shocked about what appeared to be pontifications and self advertising. Not because he is a so called pastor, but because I thought he would be in a grief state over a murdered close family member.

...... Unless he wants to go against them and suffer their wrath (or more), it may be the preferred 'gormless' thing to do ....... especially if he takes the option of waiting until the trial brings evidence that will be crucial to disproving the 'innocence' of Gerard /or others......unenviable position to be in. The fallout will no doubt cause a lot of grief.

 

[Obsessor]

respectfully snipped- I agree the BCs have made some poor choices how everything was done. I hope all truth comes out!

I agree with you 100% on this point.

Referring back to recent conversation, the presence of BOTH NBC and OW so early on the morning of the disappearance is just too odd. How many dads could not cope with getting 3 kids ready for one morning without calling for double back-up. I agree with so many others on this that it was way too early in the piece for GBC to be as worried as he claimed, and for the family members to have sprung into action and be there, what, 20 mins or so after she was due back? This is alarming in itself.

I know if my brother called me and asked for help I'd probably tell him to settle down, as Allison would be back soon and tell him just to make the lunches. It doesn't take much more than that to get them out the door. But, who knows what was really going on. I can hardly wait to hear.