Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #42

[breno84]

I had an idea just occur to me after reading everybodies comments regarding person(s) who had opportunity to take/hide the phone....
But first a question, Does anybody have a decent list of timeframes for everybody involved starting from, say 9pm the night of Allisons Disappearance? I'm talking more specifically about:

1.Time Allison returns home from hairdressers (If known)
2.Time Allison last spoke/texted anyone (other than bc clan)
3.Time womans screams heard/dog barking. (I know it May not be relevent, but bear with me please)
4.Time Nbc reportedly seen at bus stop
5.Time of Roundabout sightings
6.Time of Kholo Creek bridge sightings
7.Time that Gbc first texts Allison
8.Time that Gbc texts Allison 2nd time
9.Time Police are contacted
!0.Time police Arrive
11.Time Ow Arrives
12.Time Ow leaves
13.Time Ow returns
14.Time Nbc Arrives
15.Time of possible showgrounds sighting, for what its worth

Now I know I may be asking a LOT here but I'm sure someone did post a timeline covering most of these things waay back but its very hard for me to trawl through these endless forums to find. Perhaps a mod could help? The reason I ask is I want to do calculations based on EVERYONE involved to determine their maximum range of movement in that time period and overlay the results onto a map.
(I'll need some rough locations of the Skull manor and Allison/Gbc Houses, though not specific Addresses, as well as location of the shops where the hairdressers are)
The rest I can find myself. Now this is going to take some hours for me to do but I'm down for the cause. And maths is my strong point so I hope I can come up with a decent model to spark some new thoughts from everybody.
As I said, I know I'm asking for a lot of what has been posted but if someone has already collated this info (Or part thereof) I would appreciate if you could share. <modsnip>
Something about the movements of Ow sparked a thought in my mind which led me to this post, Just want to test the math first.........
Gasp. Apologies for the long post :hot:

 

[linette]

I had an idea just occur to me after reading everybodies comments regarding person(s) who had opportunity to take/hide the phone....
But first a question, Does anybody have a decent list of timeframes for everybody involved starting from, say 9pm the night of Allisons Disappearance? I'm talking more specifically about:

1.Time Allison returns home from hairdressers (If known)
2.Time Allison last spoke/texted anyone (other than bc clan)
3.Time womans screams heard/dog barking. (I know it May not be relevent, but bear with me please)
4.Time Nbc reportedly seen at bus stop
5.Time of Roundabout sightings
6.Time of Kholo Creek bridge sightings
7.Time that Gbc first texts Allison
8.Time that Gbc texts Allison 2nd time
9.Time Police are contacted
!0.Time police Arrive
11.Time Ow Arrives
12.Time Ow leaves
13.Time Ow returns
14.Time Nbc Arrives
15.Time of possible showgrounds sighting, for what its worth

Now I know I may be asking a LOT here but I'm sure someone did post a timeline covering most of these things waay back but its very hard for me to trawl through these endless forums to find. Perhaps a mod could help? The reason I ask is I want to do calculations based on EVERYONE involved to determine their maximum range of movement in that time period and overlay the results onto a map.
(I'll need some rough locations of the Skull manor and Allison/Gbc Houses, though not specific Addresses, as well as location of the shops where the hairdressers are)
The rest I can find myself. Now this is going to take some hours for me to do but I'm down for the cause. And maths is my strong point so I hope I can come up with a decent model to spark some new thoughts from everybody.
As I said, I know I'm asking for a lot of what has been posted but if someone has already collated this info (Or part thereof) I would appreciate if you could share. <modsnip>
Something about the movements of Ow sparked a thought in my mind which led me to this post, Just want to test the math first.........
Gasp. Apologies for the long post :hot:

I can't help you with what you want to know, but I'm eagerly awaiting what you come up with. I think it will be interesting.

 

[LadyBird1]

I had an idea just occur to me after reading everybodies comments regarding person(s) who had opportunity to take/hide the phone....
But first a question, Does anybody have a decent list of timeframes for everybody involved starting from, say 9pm the night of Allisons Disappearance? I'm talking more specifically about:

1.Time Allison returns home from hairdressers (If known)
2.Time Allison last spoke/texted anyone (other than bc clan)
3.Time womans screams heard/dog barking. (I know it May not be relevent, but bear with me please)
4.Time Nbc reportedly seen at bus stop
5.Time of Roundabout sightings
6.Time of Kholo Creek bridge sightings
7.Time that Gbc first texts Allison
8.Time that Gbc texts Allison 2nd time
9.Time Police are contacted
!0.Time police Arrive
11.Time Ow Arrives
12.Time Ow leaves
13.Time Ow returns
14.Time Nbc Arrives
15.Time of possible showgrounds sighting, for what its worth

Now I know I may be asking a LOT here but I'm sure someone did post a timeline covering most of these things waay back but its very hard for me to trawl through these endless forums to find. Perhaps a mod could help? The reason I ask is I want to do calculations based on EVERYONE involved to determine their maximum range of movement in that time period and overlay the results onto a map.
(I'll need some rough locations of the Skull manor and Allison/Gbc Houses, though not specific Addresses, as well as location of the shops where the hairdressers are)
The rest I can find myself. Now this is going to take some hours for me to do but I'm down for the cause. And maths is my strong point so I hope I can come up with a decent model to spark some new thoughts from everybody.
As I said, I know I'm asking for a lot of what has been posted but if someone has already collated this info (Or part thereof) I would appreciate if you could share. <modsnip>
Something about the movements of Ow sparked a thought in my mind which led me to this post, Just want to test the math first.........
Gasp. Apologies for the long post :hot:

12 April 2012 GBC was alleged to have phoned insurers about his wife's life Insurance policy.

18 April 2012 Google-searched the American term "taking the Fifth" about the right to remain silent.


The Day 19 April 2012

6.30pm Allison left the hairdresser.

8.45pm GBC's phone was removed from its charger.

10.00pm Loud argument heard by GBC neighbours.

10.00pm A woman's muffled screams were heard by Will Truter and his neighbours (4km from GBC home)

10.00pm Scraps the GBC neighbour's dog barking and "going crazy"

10.53pm Screams heard by Bruce Flegg (Dr Flegg's home 1km from BC home.)

11.30pm NBC seen at bus shelter, appeared confused.

12.30am Shortly after midnight, Phone was allegedly used to call his father's phone via a "face time" call, which allows both parties to see each other and talk.

01.48am 20 April: Police allege Mr Baden-Clay&#8217;s phone was returned to the charger.

06.00am (Give a take a few minutes) Shortly after 6am the children were told "Mummy had fallen down a hole and wouldn't be back."

06.15am GBC "woke up." According to GBC.

06.18am - Phone removed from charger

06.20am: GBC sent a text message to Allison saying: &#8220;Good morning! Hope you slept well? Where are you? None of the girls are up yet! Love G&#8221;

06.41am: GBC sent second text message &#8220;Al, getting concerned. Where are you? The app doesn&#8217;t say either? The children now up. I&#8217;m dressed and about to make lunches. Please just text me back or call! Love G&#8221;.

06.51am Defence barrister Peter Davis said Telstra phone records showed it
Was possible someone had used Mrs Baden-Clay's mobile phone in the Fig Tree Pocket area

07.09am: Police allege GBC searched the term &#8216;self incrimination&#8217; on the Internet.

07.14am - Accessed the Queensland Police Service home page

07.15am - GBC Called 000

08.00am - Constable Ash & Constable Leah Hammond arrive at the house in response to 000 call..

08.45am - Two senior officers arrived

09.34am: Police allege GBC searched &#8216;psychiatrists Brisbane West&#8217; on his Phone.

09.54am: Police commenced the investigation into Allison&#8217;s disappearance.

10.14am: Triangulation of Mrs Baden-Clay's phone showed the handset was possibly in a four-kilometre radius to her home.

3.00pm: A second triangulation of Mrs Baden-Clay's phone returned the same result.
A crime scene was declared at the Baden-Clay home and yard. Mr Baden-Clay was asked to give a formal statement as part of the missing Person investigation. Police said he obtained legal advice and declined to be formally interviewed.

 

[Couldbe]

Fig Tree Pocket is not that far from Brookfield. Would be dependent on traffic as to how long it would take. Maybe 5 minutes in the middle of the night - maybe 15 minutes at peak hour if you get stuck on Moggill Road on the turn off to FTP road.

ABC's phone connected to the FTP tower at 6.31am, so if someone else moved the phone from Brookfield to the vicinity of FTP, it would have had to have been prior to the police arriving?

Another scenario might be that the phone was in the FTP area early that morning and then it was moved from there (back to Brookfield), prior to it being 'pinged' in the 150m search area at Brookfield? I don't know whether the phone would have remained connected to the FTP tower if that was the case though. I did a bit of research on that (and posted a link or two) a while back which seemed it might be possible that it could - but I don't have enough technical knowledge to know for sure.

From Alioop: "It was stated twice in the court room as being 6.31am".
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

......Breno84 ...... just wanted to point out the time Allison's phone was used by someone could have been: 6.31am OR 6.51am. There seems to have been a possible error with this timing.

 

[Fuskier]

Some differences:
Between 9.00 & 10.00 pm neighbours heard argument coming from BC house?
Allison's alleged last text was at 8.00pm to her friend Kerry.
When Cons. Ash & Hammond arrived at the BC house at 8.00am, they saw OW leading the children down the stairs and into the car. She allegedly took them to school and returned to the BC houshold around the time the Senior Detectives arrived at 8.45am.
We don't have an exact time when Scraps the dog was going berserk barking at the fence backing on the BC household, but it could be between 9-10pm IMO.

 

[breno84]

Ladybird you are a champion!! Will be getting to work on this tomorrow

 

[LadyBird1]

Between 9.00 & 10.00 pm neighbours heard argument coming from BC house?
Allison's alleged last text was at 8.00pm to her friend Kerry.
When Cons. Ash & Hammond arrived at the BC house they saw OW leading the children down the stairs and into the car. She allegedly took them to school and returned to the BC houshold around the time the Senior Detectives arrived at 8.45am.

Thanks for that Fusiker. That important bit should really be included in the time frame. The bit about OW taking the children off to school.
I need to amend that time frame as more accurate details come to hand. Will try and edit post tomorrow, but I want to ensure 100% accuracy of detail.

 

[breno84]

Great work so far everyone. I'm putting this all into a word file so I can pick through it as I map it out, If anyone wants a copy of these timeframes for their own investigating without going back through forums <modsnip>I'll pass it on!

 

[Judicious]

Dearest all,

(long-time lurker, bit shy...)

Amazingly I find myself child and work free next Monday, so thought I'd try and get to the hearing.

Sorry to have to ask you this (I've tried googling) but does anyone know where exactly the commital hearing will be? Also, does anyone have any view on my chances of getting a seat...earliest I can get there would be 8am?

Thank you! I have semi-followed this case from the start. I'm gripped! Love this site!

Welcome Brizzymum, same here...long time lurker,bit shy and I also love this site :blushing:

 

[marlywings]

Welcome to all new members & welcome back to all older members who have re-joined us. Great to have you all onboard

Posting in the link for Websleuths (WS) Etiquette & Information which all members are required to adhere to.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65798"]Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[DrWatson]

Some differences:
Between 9.00 & 10.00 pm neighbours heard argument coming from BC house?
Allison's alleged last text was at 8.00pm to her friend Kerry.
When Cons. Ash & Hammond arrived at the BC house they saw OW leading the children down the stairs and into the car. She allegedly took them to school and returned to the BC houshold around the time the Senior Detectives arrived at 8.45am.
We don't have an exact time when Scraps the dog was going berserk barking at the fence backing on the BC household, but it could be between 9-10pm IMO.

That's interesting, and it hadn't struck me before - but thanks Fuskier... OW took the girls to school and it took 45 minutes??? The school is literally just across the road. You could walk it in about 2 minutes flat. But they probably drove the kids there because it would otherwise mean crossing Brookfield Rd. But even so... 45 minutes???

The school is about 200 metres from the BC house.

Hmmmm - did she spend some time at the school? Did she slip back to Skull Manor for something? Just WHAT was she doing for about 45 minutes?
And are those times accurate from the MSM reports?

 

[linette]

That's interesting, and it hadn't struck me before - but thanks Fuskier... OW took the girls to school and it took 45 minutes??? The school is literally just across the road. You could walk it in about 2 minutes flat. But they probably drove the kids there because it would otherwise mean crossing Brookfield Rd. But even so... 45 minutes???

The school is about 200 metres from the BC house.

Hmmmm - did she spend some time at the school? Did she slip back to Skull Manor for something? Just WHAT was she doing for about 45 minutes?
And are those times accurate from the MSM reports?

OW would probably just say that she was being a good sister in law and looking for Allison.

 

[Fuskier]

That's interesting, and it hadn't struck me before - but thanks Fuskier... OW took the girls to school and it took 45 minutes??? The school is literally just across the road. You could walk it in about 2 minutes flat. But they probably drove the kids there because it would otherwise mean crossing Brookfield Rd. But even so... 45 minutes???

The school is about 200 metres from the BC house.

Hmmmm - did she spend some time at the school? Did she slip back to Skull Manor for something? Just WHAT was she doing for about 45 minutes?
And are those times accurate from the MSM reports?

Whether or not the times cited in msm reports were accurate is a factor to take into consideration. Some of the times reported have come from Court documents, but sometimes reporters make mistakes too.

E.g: ABC's phone connected to the FTP tower at 6.31am, so if someone else moved the phone from Brookfield to the vicinity of FTP, it would have had to have been prior to the police arriving? From Alioop: "It was stated twice in the court room as being 6.31am".
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

 

[marlywings]

That's interesting, and it hadn't struck me before - but thanks Fuskier... OW took the girls to school and it took 45 minutes??? The school is literally just across the road. You could walk it in about 2 minutes flat. But they probably drove the kids there because it would otherwise mean crossing Brookfield Rd. But even so... 45 minutes???

The school is about 200 metres from the BC house.

Hmmmm - did she spend some time at the school? Did she slip back to Skull Manor for something? Just WHAT was she doing for about 45 minutes?
And are those times accurate from the MSM reports?

BBM

December 15, 2012

In a witness statement, he said he arrived at the Baden-Clay's Brookfield residence at about 8am with Constable Leah Hammond.

Constable Ash said he first saw a woman he now knows to be Baden-Clay's sister Olivia Walton walk three children down the stairs and put them in a car.

Two senior officers arrived at 8.45am and began talking to Baden-Clay, whose sister Ms Walton returned to the home


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...baden-clays-face/story-e6freoof-1226537344568

 

[Fuskier]

That's interesting, and it hadn't struck me before - but thanks Fuskier... OW took the girls to school and it took 45 minutes??? The school is literally just across the road. You could walk it in about 2 minutes flat. But they probably drove the kids there because it would otherwise mean crossing Brookfield Rd. But even so... 45 minutes???

The school is about 200 metres from the BC house.

Hmmmm - did she spend some time at the school? Did she slip back to Skull Manor for something? Just WHAT was she doing for about 45 minutes?
And are those times accurate from the MSM reports?

Possible that she may have talked with the teachers' about the girls distress as their mother had not returned from her morning walk.
May have also talked with Principal etc.
I'm sure QPolice would have investigated what OW said to teachers etc. which will most likely form part of the evidence in this scenario IMO.

 

[linette]

OW could also say the reason the trip took 45 mins is because she went to see the girls teachers about their mother missing. Ofcourse she could only say this if it was true because the teachers would need to back that up.

 

[KG1]

That's interesting, and it hadn't struck me before - but thanks Fuskier... OW took the girls to school and it took 45 minutes??? The school is literally just across the road. You could walk it in about 2 minutes flat. But they probably drove the kids there because it would otherwise mean crossing Brookfield Rd. But even so... 45 minutes???

The school is about 200 metres from the BC house.

Hmmmm - did she spend some time at the school? Did she slip back to Skull Manor for something? Just WHAT was she doing for about 45 minutes?
And are those times accurate from the MSM reports?

Hmmmm - did she detour to senior BCs house before she went to the school?

 

[linette]

Possible that she may have talked with the teachers' about the girls distress as their mother had not returned from her morning walk.
May have also talked with Principal etc.
I'm sure QPolice would have investigated what OW said to teachers etc.

Great minds think alike. lol

 

[LadyBird1]

That's interesting, and it hadn't struck me before - but thanks Fuskier... OW took the girls to school and it took 45 minutes??? The school is literally just across the road. You could walk it in about 2 minutes flat. But they probably drove the kids there because it would otherwise mean crossing Brookfield Rd. But even so... 45 minutes???

The school is about 200 metres from the BC house.

Hmmmm - did she spend some time at the school? Did she slip back to Skull Manor for something? Just WHAT was she doing for about 45 minutes?
And are those times accurate from the MSM reports?

What! 200 metres! I wonder if the children normally WALKED to school. A 2 to 6minute walk. depending on the dawdle factor.
Meaning, how did they they get to school, every day other than the one when their mother was supposedly a few minutes late. (Might have simply fallen down a hole, but nothing serious like.)
If so, why the need to remove them to school just when the police were about to arrive?
And just another matter: (I'm a bit out of date here) Getting the kids to school at 08.00am? Doesn't school start at 09.00am?
Why the need to be so EARLY?

 

[whitechapel]

What! 200 metres! I wonder if the children normally WALKED to school. A 2 to 6minute walk. depending on the dawdle factor.
Meaning, how did they they get to school, every day other than the one when their mother was supposedly a few minutes late. (Might have simply fallen down a hole, but nothing serious like.)
If so, why the need to remove them to school just when the police were about to arrive?
And just another matter: (I'm a bit out of date here) Getting the kids to school at 08.00am? Doesn't school start at 09.00am?
Why the need to be so EARLY?

To get them out of the way of the Police.

Maybe so they could not answer any awkward questions, or maybe so GBC could give his version of events without fear of contradiction, or maybe because she was a caring aunt that wanted to make sure they wouldn't be late for school.

MOO/IMO etc