Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #42

[Fuskier]

May I just say all you sleuths are awesome! Great theories, fantastic to bounce all ideas around here. What a great forum - all in the cause of seeing justice for Allison.

I don't post often, because, as others have said, a lot of my questions or theories have already been posted. I'm on here every day, read everything (from Day 1) and really do appreciate the way your enquiring minds and caring hearts are working to unravel this sad mystery that still confounds and profoundly upsets me.

Huge thanks to Marly, for keeping us on point and on track.

Monday is a public holiday for us here in Melbourne. No sleeping in for me! My OH doesn't quite get my obsession, but he does know I'm committed to seeing this thing through for Allison and her girls. And here is where I'll be.

I know its not much, but if the only support I can give is to be here through this, I hope somewhere, somehow, Allison knows how much we all care.

So, I'll have my alarm set and will be right here, hitting 'refresh' every second. Just wish I could be in court!

I would also like to take this opportunity to give a very special 'shout out' to Alioop and the good Doc. With what I have learned from these two very patient, knowledgeable and giving professionals, I reckon I am almost ready to take my double degree in Law and Thoracic Surgery! Thanks guys!

Roll on Monday!!!

I agree with you Oz Jen. IMO timely post today. Thank you to all the WS members who contribute diligently to case discussion and provide some thought provoking posts. Collectively, we are amazing sleuths. Yes, we are an online community united by wanting justice for Allison Baden-Clay. Thank you to the moderators, especially Marlywings for keeping so many posts within the rules etc. Thank you to all the regular contributors who contribute so patiently and who have kept the Threads moving brainstorming each aspect available in msm with maps, photos etc. We are fortunate indeed here on WS. Well, it's finally here after a long wait. Next week will be a busy one and I will be here throughout the day to follow the progress of the Committal hearing. "It offends our collective consciousness".

P.S. Hope the Kholo Bridge is adorned with sunflowers and glows bright & beautiful next week in support of Allison Baden-Clay.

 

[Curiousasacat]

What lovely posts! What a great bunch of people. I just can't keep up with thanking every post but I do read them all. I am going to be here on Monday too. After waiting so long I am making sure to be on my laptop. I will get those twitter updates happening : )
With Jill's case as well I think a lot of us will be here for a long time in the upcoming days. Better get to the bottle shop and pick up some wine. So another big thanks to everyone here and lets hope that we can get to the bottom of what happened.

 

[Makara]

What lovely posts! What a great bunch of people. I just can't keep up with thanking every post but I do read them all. I am going to be here on Monday too. After waiting so long I am making sure to be on my laptop. I will get those twitter updates happening : )
With Jill's case as well I think a lot of us will be here for a long time in the upcoming days. Better get to the bottle shop and pick up some wine. So another big thanks to everyone here and lets hope that we can get to the bottom of what happened.

Having the Twitter updates available will be awesome, thanks Curious. I'm hoping to keep the Media Timeline thread updated with the MSM links as they come through. It's certainly going to be a big week and I think we're in for one hell of a rollercoaster ride!

May justice for Allison Baden-Clay be served.

MOO.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Having the Twitter updates available will be awesome, thanks Curious. I'm hoping to keep the Media Timeline thread updated with the MSM links as they come through. It's certainly going to be a big week and I think we're in for one hell of a rollercoaster ride!

May justice for Allison Baden-Clay be served.

MOO.

I will try my best Makara. The media Timeline is invaluable and a piece of history really. It really is great you can do that for us : )
Rollercoaster is correct. That's why I think I'll need wine.
I just wish I could see his face and his reactions. Would be great if we had live court TV.

 

[Liadan]

What lovely posts! What a great bunch of people. I just can't keep up with thanking every post but I do read them all. I am going to be here on Monday too. After waiting so long I am making sure to be on my laptop. I will get those twitter updates happening : )
With Jill's case as well I think a lot of us will be here for a long time in the upcoming days. Better get to the bottle shop and pick up some wine. So another big thanks to everyone here and lets hope that we can get to the bottom of what happened.

love your latest avatar CC! Its very Allison!!! Great tribute to her memory!

 

[Sleuthis-maximus]

Re the lies etc.. I followed with great interest the NSW Keli Lane case -accused (and convicted in 2010) of murdering her baby daughter Tegan in the mid 90s - no body has been found..no one in her life including her partner/parents knew she had carried Tegan and another two babies to term, secretly adopting the two others out and Tegan being unaccounted for) anyway..all aspects of her life including the above, abortions, sex life including cheating etc were aired throughout the trial - they actually had a figure on the number of lies she told and it was huge. All throughout her trial, her QC maintained her innocence, that she gave the baby to the father (Andrew Norris/Morris who has never been found despite comprehensive searches) and that just because someone tells lies doesn’t mean they are guilty of murder, or that they cant be quite truthful in regard to other matters...it was a very complex case -she did not give evidence... she was found guilty by a majority 11-1 jury verdict. She is appealing at the moment and the presiding trial judge who's since retired has said he wasn’t convinced the crown proved its case, but that was for the jury.. it reminds me a lot of the GBC case in terms of the public interest...anyway my point in this ramble is how this court/QCs handled the lies in regard to guilt in a similar (in terms of high profile) trial.

 

[KG1]

Excellent thinking there MM. That could indeed have been where the 150m radius came from. And you're correct that the search warrant was in the afternoon, which would indeed have given GBC or whoever else the chance to retrieve the phone and either turn it off, or simply to take it somewhere in a panic and ditch it - within range of the Fig Tree Pocket tower, where it lay until the battery ran out?

That could certainly explain the apparent discrepancy between the "150m radius of the house" thing, and the connection to the FTP tower until the battery went dead.

So WHO was prowling around the BC house in between the arrival of the police at around 8am, and the search warrant time, and WHO then took a drive??

Dr, we already know that OW took the girls to school and then returned to the BC house. She left with girls while police were in the first attendance that morning. How far is Fig Tree Pocket from the senior BC house?

 

[DrWatson]

Dr, we already know that OW took the girls to school and then returned to the BC house. She left with girls while police were in the first attendance that morning. How far is Fig Tree Pocket from the senior BC house?

Not far at all - perhaps a few minutes drive to where the coverage of the FTP tower would be, at a guess.

Yes - that is one of the things I was hinting at....

 

[KG1]

Not far at all - perhaps a few minutes drive to where the coverage of the FTP tower would be, at a guess.

Yes - that is one of the things I was hinting at....

"Elementary, my dear Watson"
:takeabow:

 

[Liadan]

Dr, we already know that OW took the girls to school and then returned to the BC house. She left with girls while police were in the first attendance that morning. How far is Fig Tree Pocket from the senior BC house?

Exactly KG1 and for some reason after OW dropped the girls off at school she took quite a while to come back to the house. Long enough to have driven somewhere with that phone and disposed of it!

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

Dr, we already know that OW took the girls to school and then returned to the BC house. She left with girls while police were in the first attendance that morning. How far is Fig Tree Pocket from the senior BC house?

Fig Tree Pocket is not that far from Brookfield. Would be dependent on traffic as to how long it would take. Maybe 5 minutes in the middle of the night - maybe 15 minutes at peak hour if you get stuck on Moggill Road on the turn off to FTP road.

ABC's phone connected to the FTP tower at 6.31am, so if someone else moved the phone from Brookfield to the vicinity of FTP, it would have had to have been prior to the police arriving?

Another scenario might be that the phone was in the FTP area early that morning and then it was moved from there (back to Brookfield), prior to it being 'pinged' in the 150m search area at Brookfield? I don't know whether the phone would have remained connected to the FTP tower if that was the case though. I did a bit of research on that (and posted a link or two) a while back which seemed it might be possible that it could - but I don't have enough technical knowledge to know for sure.

From Alioop: "It was stated twice in the court room as being 6.31am".
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8663991&postcount=642"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40[/ame]

 

[Couldbe]

Fig Tree Pocket is not that far from Brookfield. Would be dependent on traffic as to how long it would take. Maybe 5 minutes in the middle of the night - maybe 15 minutes at peak hour if you get stuck on Moggill Road on the turn off to FTP road.

ABC's phone connected to the FTP tower at 6.31am, so if someone else moved the phone from Brookfield to the vicinity of FTP, it would have had to have been prior to the police arriving?

Another scenario might be that the phone was in the FTP area early that morning and then it was moved from there (back to Brookfield), prior to it being 'pinged' in the 150m search area at Brookfield? I don't know whether the phone would have remained connected to the FTP tower if that was the case though. I did a bit of research on that (and posted a link or two) a while back which seemed it might be possible that it could - but I don't have enough technical knowledge to know for sure.

From Alioop: "It was stated twice in the court room as being 6.31am".
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

As GBC stated that he woke at 6.15am then that, for one, puts him in the running to have been able to be in possession of Allison's phone when it was used by someone at 6.31am .... especially as he told the Operator when he phoned at 7.15am to report his wife missing, that he was 'driving the streets'.
If he was in fact out there, then the phone could still have been in his possession when he returned to the home before the Police arrived. JMO

 

[they'll get you]

Sorry if I shouldn't be asking this, but is the aussiecriminals site still discussing this case does anyone know?

Yep they're onto it but they seem be more open than us which could be a problem towards the outcome of the court proceedings. I'm not sure but they may not get time out for over stepping boundaries, eh Doc? Some very interesting things have been said, not sure how true but interesting.

 

[Fuskier]

Fig Tree Pocket is not that far from Brookfield. Would be dependent on traffic as to how long it would take. Maybe 5 minutes in the middle of the night - maybe 15 minutes at peak hour if you get stuck on Moggill Road on the turn off to FTP road.

ABC's phone connected to the FTP tower at 6.31am, so if someone else moved the phone from Brookfield to the vicinity of FTP, it would have had to have been prior to the police arriving?

Another scenario might be that the phone was in the FTP area early that morning and then it was moved from there (back to Brookfield), prior to it being 'pinged' in the 150m search area at Brookfield? I don't know whether the phone would have remained connected to the FTP tower if that was the case though. I did a bit of research on that (and posted a link or two) a while back which seemed it might be possible that it could - but I don't have enough technical knowledge to know for sure.

From Alioop: "It was stated twice in the court room as being 6.31am".
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

IMO then it's possible that it was GBC himself. It was widely reported in msm and discussed on WS threads that GBC stated to the emergency operator that he was out in the car at that moment looking for Allison while his father was at his house with the children.

 

[marlywings]

Hi Radster, if the prosecution intends to call them as witnesses, they would have already subpoenaed them which is an order of the court requiring them them to attend. Failure to comply with a subpoena can result in a warrant issued for their arrest to be brought before the court. I am sure if NBC and /or OW have been subpoenaed then they will be there.
They can refuse to answer any questions only on the grounds that it may incriminate themselves. If they did this the magistrate will decide on this issue. They cannot claim that that an answer may incriminate GBC. It is only self incrimination.

They can be held in contempt of court if they fail to answer a question other than ones where the magistrate decides they are excused because of the self incrimination ground. I have posted previously on the penalties for contempt. Marly would you be kind enough to find that post, it was a couple of threads ago.

Let me know if this isn't the one & I'll have another look.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8564925&postcount=563"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #39[/ame]

Thought I'd add this post of yours in as well as it includes link to the "Going To Court" booklet which some members may like to read.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8181410&postcount=422"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #35[/ame]


http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/30620/GoingToCourt_booklet.pdf

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

As GBC stated that he woke at 6.15am then that, for one, puts him in the running to have been able to be in possession of Allison's phone when it was used by someone at 6.31am .... especially as he told the Operator when he phoned at 7.15am to report his wife missing, that he was 'driving the streets'.
If he was in fact out there, then the phone could still have been in his possession when he returned to the home before the Police arrived. JMO

IF the reports of phone logs etc are correct though, then the phones thing is a bit of a conundrum - as GBC's phone was making text messages from Brookfield around the same time. Either GBC wasn't in possession of one of the phones at that time (His or ABC's) - or he was driving exceedingly quickly back and forth between Brookfield and FTP that morning. (It does give 10 mins either side of each text though - which is possible if he sent first text from his phone at Brookfield, went straight to FTP area, ABC's phone logged on, went straight back to Brookfield and immediately made another text from his phone).

(Apologies to Doc Watson too - I didn't realise you had already answered the 'how far to FTP from Brookfield question until after I had posted).



"The documents show five minutes after he discovered Allison was missing on April 20, he sent her a text message at 6:20am.

"Good morning! Hope you slept well? Where are you? None of the girls are up yet! Love G," he wrote.

No reply and 21 minutes later he sent a follow-up text.

"Al, getting concerned. Where are you? The app doesn't say either?... I'm dressed and about to make lunches. Please just text me back or call! Love G," the message read." See more at: http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/14044887/more-on-baden-clay-bail-bid-revealed/

 

[brizzymum]

Dearest all,

(long-time lurker, bit shy...)

Amazingly I find myself child and work free next Monday, so thought I'd try and get to the hearing.

Sorry to have to ask you this (I've tried googling) but does anyone know where exactly the commital hearing will be? Also, does anyone have any view on my chances of getting a seat...earliest I can get there would be 8am?

Thank you! I have semi-followed this case from the start. I'm gripped! Love this site!

 

[KG1]

Fig Tree Pocket is not that far from Brookfield. Would be dependent on traffic as to how long it would take. Maybe 5 minutes in the middle of the night - maybe 15 minutes at peak hour if you get stuck on Moggill Road on the turn off to FTP road.

ABC's phone connected to the FTP tower at 6.31am, so if someone else moved the phone from Brookfield to the vicinity of FTP, it would have had to have been prior to the police arriving?

Another scenario might be that the phone was in the FTP area early that morning and then it was moved from there (back to Brookfield), prior to it being 'pinged' in the 150m search area at Brookfield? I don't know whether the phone would have remained connected to the FTP tower if that was the case though. I did a bit of research on that (and posted a link or two) a while back which seemed it might be possible that it could - but I don't have enough technical knowledge to know for sure.

From Alioop: "It was stated twice in the court room as being 6.31am".
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

Well, that blows my hypothesis!. I did not recall that it was 6.31am that it pinged at FTP. Could have been picked UP from FTP at that time, then to BC house, if OW on way from BC seniors.

 

[Fuskier]

IF the reports of phone logs etc are correct though, then the phones thing is a bit of a conundrum - as GBC's phone was making text messages from Brookfield around the same time. Either GBC wasn't in possession of one of the phones at that time (His or ABC's) - or he was driving exceedingly quickly back and forth between Brookfield and FTP that morning. (It does give 10 mins either side of each text though - which is possible if he sent first text from his phone at Brookfield, went straight to FTP area, ABC's phone logged on, went straight back to Brookfield and immediately made another text from his phone).

(Apologies to Doc Watson too - I didn't realise you had already answered the 'how far to FTP from Brookfield question until after I had posted).



"The documents show five minutes after he discovered Allison was missing on April 20, he sent her a text message at 6:20am.

"Good morning! Hope you slept well? Where are you? None of the girls are up yet! Love G," he wrote.

No reply and 21 minutes later he sent a follow-up text.

"Al, getting concerned. Where are you? The app doesn't say either?... I'm dressed and about to make lunches. Please just text me back or call! Love G," the message read." See more at: http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/14044887/more-on-baden-clay-bail-bid-revealed/

... but there was at least one other person at GBC's house at that time. Anybody can send a text from somebody else's phone. Do we know without doubt that GBC had his phone on him or had he left it at the house? This is a most interesting aspect of possible accessory before/after the fact involvement IMO. I am interested in how the Prosecution will approach this one.

 

[they'll get you]

As GBC stated that he woke at 6.15am then that, for one, puts him in the running to have been able to be in possession of Allison's phone when it was used by someone at 6.31am .... especially as he told the Operator when he phoned at 7.15am to report his wife missing, that he was 'driving the streets'.
If he was in fact out there, then the phone could still have been in his possession when he returned to the home before the Police arrived. JMO

Allison could have been recording the therapy sessions on her phone as a refresher/evidence for the therapist & I've tucked my phone into my bra if I don't have pockets (I know it's a health risk) & if Allison had a built in bra that would be an easy thing, I recall she had an iphone 3 which was a more slimmer/rounder design than the current models.
Another thought, their plan could have been assault and theft of the phone while she was out for her walk. Get rid of the phone to look like that? Beats me.

I hope the police escavated some of the soil around Allisons body when they found her because that bloody phone could have been right there under her

Going crazy trying to figure out these crazies.