Alternate Theories

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
If RH offered this explanation and I were prosecuting, I'd ask the jury to think about the last time they took a toddler to a fast food restaurant....or watched someone with a toddler in a McDonalds or Chik-fila. Or maybe show a few video clips of parents in that situation. I watched a woman with a small girl yesterday in just such a situation. The toddler was under the table at one point, then had to asked to sit and eat, then hopped down and headed off for another table...Mom had to get up and swoop her back to where they were sitting...
There was a tremendous amount of interaction. There HAD to be a high amount of awareness just to get in, eat, help them, leave, put the child back in the car. It's hands on...watching...eyes on that child all the time.

This is not a book or a briefcase...an inanimate object that there is no reciprocal interaction. Your mind has to be focused on where they are, what they are found, etc. It's like playing handball..watching a moving changing object!

Cooper was said to be awake, talking and walking around. I think a few short videos of kids and parents at a fast food restaurant would squash the idea that any parent can "forget" in seconds after so much hands-on interaction.

But even if we were to somehow cross the hurtle...the problem with this theory, IMO, is that these parents say hot car death was "their greatest fear." They researched how long, how hot, etc. How do we reconcile Ross being so casual about leaving his son with the knowledge HE HAS just researched?! He absolutely KNEW how lethal a situation he was leaving Cooper in!

He spent time reading! He watched videos!

He knew the parameters! And supposedly...he and LH had this tremendous fear!

It's hard to reconcile someone who researched and feared...thinking..."oh, I'll just pop back later! Oh, he's just sleeping!"

That research is going to hang this Monster. You can't defend giving your child ten times the normal amount of medicine because you...thought it would be harmless...if you have been reading and watching videos about how high doses causes death!

The problem with all RH's "innocent" scenarios is that it is like we are talking about two different people.,The descriptions that he and LH give of him as the obsessive, researching parent...kissing Cooper because he might die in a wreck, etc....do not match the description of the Doofus who forgets a child in 30 seconds and blows off leaving him in a hot car...with the windows up....while he works.

And...If he knew...surely he'd open the windows. Even for a dog, you'd open the windows!

He wants to be Fabulous Dad and Lethal Ferris Bueller all at once. I don't think that will sell to a jury.

Edited to add....in many hot car cases, there is a caregiver who is on overload of responsibilities...in their personal life and/or work. It's the opposite in this case. How much more of a blow-off job can anyone have...when you can sext all day at work? RH seems to be a man-child with no responsibilities!!!

Look at his day! He lays in bed watching TV, lounging while LH goes to work? He heads to feed his face at Chik-fila. He sexts all morning...breaks for more food. More sexting...and then he would be off to a movie, not home to the family.

He is in a position where he will need to argue that his obsession with photographing his penis to attract underage girls is why, he...the FABULOUS father....forgot his child in 30 seconds and left him to die, scratching his tiny face and banging his baby head in agony...while Daddy sexted.
SMM, you are simply awesome. :loveyou:

When I read your posts, you tend to say everything I want to say and more. Thanks for that.

I really wish you could write the opening and closing arguments for the Prosecution. Brava!
 
If it had been an accident that occurred in this way, I really feel that he would have called an ambulance as soon as he noticed. He should have been mortified that lunchtime if he had intended for him to survive his stay in the car. Not casually carrying on with his day.

Based on this, I believe that it has to be either premeditated murder or a complete mistake (too busy sexting to think about poor Cooper). I don't believe he knowingly left him in the car without intending him to die. The Internet searches should have made him aware how dangerous this was.

You think he just forgot him? I am just asking for clarification. What makes you think he just forgot him? Just spaced out? (Not snarky, this sounds snarky. It's not.)
 
Couple of ways I see that being answered, again, I'm going with the what ifs.

IF he left Cooper intentionally but not to kill, and it was going to be a short while (no idea what short while equates to) windows would be closed?
IF he left Cooper intentionally but not to kill, and it was going to be a long while, I would hope windows would be open for some air, and breeze.

Since windows were closed I'm thinking:
He left Cooper intentionally to kill him, intentionally but not to kill, or he forgot all together.

I'm not here to excuse his actions, find an innocent reason, or to defend him - but I do like to know that there's room for open discussion even if the thought or explanations are not with the main stream conclusion.

my opinion, etc., :moo:

Thank you. I LOVE the discussion too....love the debate. But I'm not sure we are allowed to answer in this thread? Can we only post theories now with absolutely no discussion at all?

I would love to participate but I'm confused.
 
If that truly was the case, why wasn't 911 the first call he made. It took police 9 min. to arrive on scene. Someone else was doing CPR on the baby. Why no 911 call?

Respectfully, I believe this is an "alternative theories" thread and it seems the subject of Cooper just being forgotten is/has become an "alternative theory." Therefore, I believe your snip of my answer to another post might be considered off-topic. And beyond that, my original post made no mention of any 911 theories. Your question would likely be best posed to the poster who mentioned the possibility of Cooper being completely forgotten, not forgotten in a drug-induced stupor (my kinda theory.)

Respectfully, truly.
 
You think he just forgot him? I am just asking for clarification. What makes you think he just forgot him? Just spaced out? (Not snarky, this sounds snarky. It's not.)

No, I do believe he left him there on purpose. There are too many unfortunate coincidences and situations and none of it adds up to being accidental when you put them all together. I just believe that the "completely forgot" theory makes more sense than the "intentionally left, but death was accidental" theory.
 
Alright, okay. I think I am seeing the problem here. There is little room for responding to the alternate theories proposed. And yet the discussion of each alternate basically derails the thread because it rehashes all the facts that we know and it stops the discussion of other theories.

So we could make this a list only thread and put the discussion elsewhere? Or...

I made a sticky thread where we can discuss this so we don't take this thread further off topic. You can find it here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?250145-Issues-with-Specific-Thread-Content

Salem
 
Thank you. I LOVE the discussion too....love the debate. But I'm not sure we are allowed to answer in this thread? Can we only post theories now with absolutely no discussion at all?

I would love to participate but I'm confused.
Me too! I thought this thread was about posting theories, and the pros and cons of each of them.???
 
I kinda wonder if he meant to duck into work to grab something/start a program running and then leave work again, with Cooper. My husband has to start programs running at his job but, his job is very different. Then, MAYBE, JRH got "tied up." Did he then forget? Did he get swamped with various snapchats from women etc and mixed up dropping Cooper off prior to breakfast as opposed to after (as he sometimes did?) When he threw the lightbulbs in, was he enough of a socio to compose himself well enough to detach himself and start planning a rouse to cover what had happened? He was certainly living a double life what with his church attendance on one side and his online activities on the other....

Personally, I find myself throwing out these suggestions because I keep coming back to Cameron Todd Willingham. Executed and then exonerated for the death of his daughters. I know the differences between these cases are miles apart but, I am loathe to jump on any bandwagon where anyone's life or freedom is at stake, no matter how horrid I may find that particular individual to be.

I do find this guy to be suspect as all holy hell. I find that the pieces don't make sense. BUT, I find myself trying to mash those pieces together, maybe because my mind cannot grasp something so horrible or because I know our justice system can be TERRIBLY TERRIBLY flawed.... It's not to be a contrary troll.

These things in particular cause me pause:
- Guy was in IT: He KNEW that HD had cameras. He knew he was being recorded. He knew his searches would be on company time and therefore subject to scrutiny and that HD could throw those doors wiiiide open without his permission or even knowledge.
- He left his son, Cooper, in a busy parking lot at a popular store. That's risky. Cooper was incredibly unlucky. I am pretty surprised the poor baby wasn't seen. I still wonder if he wasn't further concealed beyond being strapped down in that seat.
- ALL THOSE SEARCHES. Why would you even do all those searches?! Everyone on Earth knows hot cars kill dogs, kids, anything alive. The reddit postings? The same usernames with no efforts to use proxies? He was in IT! Why wouldn't he have made some effort to cover his tracks?
- Asking about the life insurance? That soon? It just seems.... like IDK, it just seems like he was completely unaware he was being monitored or he had no clue the gravity of such a statement? Beyond that, it doesn't seem enough money to murder someone for, especially not considering the investigation that would surely follow?

There are other things too that leave me *advertiser censored*-eyed (is that a word??) but, I worry I'm "power-posting" so, enough for now....
 
No, they didn't won a house. They WANTED to, they planned to.

Obviously, he shouldn't have received a raise. That wasn't even the point. The point is he made $61,000 before taxes for two years. In my experience, in a lower cost of living community, that is not enough income combined with hers to 1. carry debt from credit cards, school loans, and automobiles (and not be buried) and 2. plan to purchase a home.

Add daycare, rent, insurance, cell phone bills, utilities, all the eating out, movies, and entertainment he loved...and all other bills...they did not make enough for what they wanted, or how they lived. IMO.

I am a single mom, with two adult children living in my home, free of cost, and for whom I purchase all the groceries. I have a 15 year mortgage on the house, recently purchased a vacation/retirement home (also with a 15 year mortgage) and have another 2 years before my car is paid off. I don't have a lot of discretionary funds, but I am getting by and owe "only" $1,000 total on credit cards.

I make less than Ross did, receive no financial assistance from anyone, and don't live in a particularly "cheap" part of the country.
 
Thank you. I LOVE the discussion too....love the debate. But I'm not sure we are allowed to answer in this thread? Can we only post theories now with absolutely no discussion at all?

I would love to participate but I'm confused.

I'm not quite sure now - I thought this was open for discussion as long as it's in reference to an alternative theory, another way of saying "what if ?????????".

I hope it's ok to be posting this.....
 
According to Accu-weather, the low was 69, in Atlanta, Ga. on June 18th. Temps can vary depending on what metro county you are in.

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/atlanta-ga/30303/june-weather/348181


Edited to add: The mean temperature that day was 81 degrees.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...ty=Atlanta&req_state=GA&req_statename=Georgia






I'm sorry, that is wrong. The news even reports that in THAT area, the high was 92, and that it was 90 by noon. Also, the recorded low on the government website, is not 69. It doesn't really matter. Even IF (which it was not) 69 degrees at 9:30 that morning, the car still would have been 110-120 degrees in that car in one hour. He would have known this, because he searched it.
 
REALLY REALLY GOOD! I too thought he might have the "memory" of dropping Cooper off because of removing him from the car at CFA. But he and Cooper ate there. I do not know if he normally went there alone and ate at a table... if so, this all fits. If he normally grabs food to go when it is just him, the fact that he did not have a bag of food when he exited the car would have jogged his memory that he had forgotten something.

BBM: I don't know either.

Would be nice to know if he normally went through drive through (alone or with Cooper) or did he usually eat in (alone or with Cooper).
Was this a one time eat in to be caught on camera? or Was he the type that likes to order inside only?
One of my friends as well as my father likes to order from inside, so they can watch what the kitchen is doing. At fast food places of course :D
 
I kinda wonder if he meant to duck into work to grab something/start a program running and then leave work again, with Cooper. My husband has to start programs running at his job but, his job is very different. Then, MAYBE, JRH got "tied up." Did he then forget? Did he get swamped with various snapchats from women etc and mixed up dropping Cooper off prior to breakfast as opposed to after (as he sometimes did?) When he threw the lightbulbs in, was he enough of a socio to compose himself well enough to detach himself and start planning a rouse to cover what had happened? He was certainly living a double life what with his church attendance on one side and his online activities on the other....

Personally, I find myself throwing out these suggestions because I keep coming back to Cameron Todd Willingham. Executed and then exonerated for the death of his daughters. I know the differences between these cases are miles apart but, I am loathe to jump on any bandwagon where anyone's life or freedom is at stake, no matter how horrid I may find that particular individual to be.

I do find this guy to be suspect as all holy hell. I find that the pieces don't make sense. BUT, I find myself trying to mash those pieces together, maybe because my mind cannot grasp something so horrible or because I know our justice system can be TERRIBLY TERRIBLY flawed.... It's not to be a contrary troll.

These things in particular cause me pause:
- Guy was in IT: He KNEW that HD had cameras. He knew he was being recorded. He knew his searches would be on company time and therefore subject to scrutiny and that HD could throw those doors wiiiide open without his permission or even knowledge.
- He left his son, Cooper, in a busy parking lot at a popular store. That's risky. Cooper was incredibly unlucky. I am pretty surprised the poor baby wasn't seen. I still wonder if he wasn't further concealed beyond being strapped down in that seat.

- ALL THOSE SEARCHES. Why would you even do all those searches?! Everyone on Earth knows hot cars kill dogs, kids, anything alive. The reddit postings? The same usernames with no efforts to use proxies? He was in IT! Why wouldn't he have made some effort to cover his tracks?
- Asking about the life insurance? That soon? It just seems.... like IDK, it just seems like he was completely unaware he was being monitored or he had no clue the gravity of such a statement? Beyond that, it doesn't seem enough money to murder someone for, especially not considering the investigation that would surely follow?

There are other things too that leave me *advertiser censored*-eyed (is that a word??) but, I worry I'm "power-posting" so, enough for now....

I hope it's okay to point put that he wasn't at a "popular store" with customers coming and going. RH parked where he worked, at a corporate facility. Much less traffic with probably some predictability as to when most people arrived for work, and left.

And he did come late, didn't he? after most people would already be inside...
 
My theory is that JRH is just a selfish, self absorbed, indulgent, and irresponsible male. He thought he had it all, a wife and child at home and he could be a playboy on top of that.

I think he laid in bed watching cartoons with Cooper and likely dozed off, forgetting the time. When he woke up he realized he was already or going to be late for work. At that point he probably figured a couple extra minutes eating breakfast at Chick Fil A wouldn't make a big difference. Then when he comes out of the restaurant he realizes its even later and now he may start to worry about the time.

At this point he unintentionally leaves Cooper in the car and drives to work.

I think the rest of the damning coincidences can be explained logically.

  • The video... I think the fact that he and Leanna viewed it shows that there is more to it. I think he forgot Cooper in the car before and Leanna made him watch it to prove it could have killed Cooper. To prove how careless and irresponsible what he did was probably because he didn't think it was all that bad.
  • The "Child Free" section of Reddit. I read Reddit regularly myself, I had not seen that mentioned before because I usually just read the front page, food, and gardening. But when i went searching for it, a whole bunch of unrelated threads popped up about children where they were discussing how abhorrent that subreddit was. So its possible reading normal threads he was made aware of it and went and looked at it for himself.
  • The "watch people die" I am a woman, I am not obsessed with death at all but I remember watching faces of death when I was in my early 20's just out of curiosity. I was more than disgusted and outraged afterwards and regretted it. But I still watched the video of Daniel pearl being executed when it happened. Coincidentally when I heard from the news that you could get the recipe for meth online, I looked that up too. I also read the Bomb making edition for terrorists online. I am not planning to do any of those things!!!
  • Leanna immediately assuming he left Cooper in the car, again this shows evidence that he had done it before. Cooper ended up being ok that time, naturally she would assume very wrongly he would be this time too.
  • Leanna declining to see her child, at this point I am guessing it was obvious that her husband was in custody, not necessarily charged yet but he had been handcuffed. She has been told that Cooper is dead, its only common sense at that point to worry about what she has left... JRH. It doesn't mean she doesn't love Cooper but really now she is scared of losing her husband too.
  • Leanna asking if he said too much.. JRH advocated online that people should not cooperate with LE, I think he used his dispatcher job to pretend he had knowledge superior to everyday people and that he used it to boost his own self importance. I think he said the same in real life and they probably discussed this many times. Simply watching the news will give you plenty of opportunity to start a conversation so you can act that way.
  • Her crazy statements at the funeral can be attributed easily to what she has been told, and the fact that she wants to believe that. It may be all that was getting her through that honestly.
 
Thank you Confusion for starting this thread.

What if RH did forget?

He leaves CFA, goes directly to work thinking he dropped Cooper off prior to eating at CFA.

He usually drops Cooper off first, grabs himself something to eat at CFA and then goes to work - His attorney states that's more his routine than the other way around. (CFA, day care, then work). Bringing Cooper to CFA was a specialty, not the norm. So he may have been on an autopilot leaving CFA parking lot rushing to get to work.

With hearing loss to the right ear having low audio of Cooper, driving distraction/heavy traffic needing to concentrate, window may have been down with outside noises drowning his left good ear, radio on volume high - most of all, probably can't wait to meet new hook ups on line. So he parks his car thinking only about his computer and getting on line. He never notices Cooper and the 30 second stall was to make sure window up, radio off, and the computer was all intact. Then goes into work never noticing he forgot Cooper until later in the day as he claims.

Or....the 30 second stall was RH notices Cooper, but sits and contemplates, and rationalizes that Cooper would be fine for a little while. He'll take him to day care at break but before lunch, then goes in to work. RH forgets about him again, because he's tangled with his sexting, movie planning, and making lunch plans with his friends. It's not until he drops the light bulbs off that he realizes he forgot about Cooper, but looks like he is sleeping so RH figures he'll let him rest and leave work early to drop him off at day care. That's why he texts LH his "when are you picking up my buddy" comment. He has to leave work early to beat LH to day care, but he's also going to be late to the movies and let's his friends know.

RH leaves work, gets in suv but because of his loss of smell (side effect from meds), he does not notice anything bad. After driving a distance, thinking Cooper's kind of quiet, he takes a good look behind. See's his color's off and thinks he's choking. Realizes he better get out of the car and check, but dreads what he may look like. Then the reality and horror and shock and all emotions explodes and he snaps.

What have I done - I killed my son. Some one else now is trying cpr. He's off to the side trying to contact LH - Our child is dead, he gets word to her? Maybe the 6min call is someone at day care room 5, trying to listen to all the commotion, but not saying anything? Phone to good ear so he can't hear police telling him to get off the phone, he's all frazzled, tells cop to eff-off. Cop takes phone away disconnecting the call. Now he's hand cuffed and in the police car. He can't understand what's happening, didn't talk to anybody on that call, yet, the one's on the other end knows something bad's happened. LH and day care worker thinks he's still at work parking lot. LH now thinking "he must have left Cooper in the car, it's the only explanation" and meet police at HD parking lot.

At HD parking lot police inform LH Cooper's dead, maybe tell her he's been taken away in ambulance. RH's arrested and at the jail. So she decides to go see RH. They talk, he can't understand what's happening, in his mind he's done nothing wrong, Cooper was ok, can't believe it. Thought maybe he was choking, dreaded how he would look. Thinks he'll loose his job. Says, our son is dead, what have I done, I killed our son. LH says "did you say too much" in reference to RH stating I killed our son?

This is an alternate theory explaining some of the main points.

Yes RH left Cooper in the car all day, but what if it was not intentionally to kill him. It's just that he forgot about him several times through out the day. Checking on him, thinking he's ok, just resting. Making plans to drop off a live Cooper each time, but that too did not go as plan.


my opinion, and all that jazz :moo:


There is videio of RH and Cooper at Cfl, so that ones out.

I've thought of him forgetting also......but he checked how it would be if Cooper died in the car. Not poisoning, or chocking on food or a toy, not getting run over by a car, but to die in an oven.

In ways I 've wonder if he'd left Cooper in the car before, recently enough for LeAnna to find him and go online for herself. Maybe RH told her that he was asleep in the car when he drove home, and he didn't want to wake him ( Especially since Cooper hadn't been sleeping well the last few weeks) told her that he'd be OK, he'd checked online and Cooper would be fine. Did he park his suv in the driveway or garage?
 
I think a lot of the components of your theory are very very similar to mine - I think the same way you do! ;-)
http://eastcobb.patch.com/groups/opinion/p/justin-ross-harris

My theory is that JRH is just a selfish, self absorbed, indulgent, and irresponsible male. He thought he had it all, a wife and child at home and he could be a playboy on top of that.

I think he laid in bed watching cartoons with Cooper and likely dozed off, forgetting the time. When he woke up he realized he was already or going to be late for work. At that point he probably figured a couple extra minutes eating breakfast at Chick Fil A wouldn't make a big difference. Then when he comes out of the restaurant he realizes its even later and now he may start to worry about the time.

At this point he unintentionally leaves Cooper in the car and drives to work.

I think the rest of the damning coincidences can be explained logically.

  • The video... I think the fact that he and Leanna viewed it shows that there is more to it. I think he forgot Cooper in the car before and Leanna made him watch it to prove it could have killed Cooper. To prove how careless and irresponsible what he did was probably because he didn't think it was all that bad.
  • The "Child Free" section of Reddit. I read Reddit regularly myself, I had not seen that mentioned before because I usually just read the front page, food, and gardening. But when i went searching for it, a whole bunch of unrelated threads popped up about children where they were discussing how abhorrent that subreddit was. So its possible reading normal threads he was made aware of it and went and looked at it for himself.
  • The "watch people die" I am a woman, I am not obsessed with death at all but I remember watching faces of death when I was in my early 20's just out of curiosity. I was more than disgusted and outraged afterwards and regretted it. But I still watched the video of Daniel pearl being executed when it happened. Coincidentally when I heard from the news that you could get the recipe for meth online, I looked that up too. I also read the Bomb making edition for terrorists online. I am not planning to do any of those things!!!
  • Leanna immediately assuming he left Cooper in the car, again this shows evidence that he had done it before. Cooper ended up being ok that time, naturally she would assume very wrongly he would be this time too.
  • Leanna declining to see her child, at this point I am guessing it was obvious that her husband was in custody, not necessarily charged yet but he had been handcuffed. She has been told that Cooper is dead, its only common sense at that point to worry about what she has left... JRH. It doesn't mean she doesn't love Cooper but really now she is scared of losing her husband too.
  • Leanna asking if he said too much.. JRH advocated online that people should not cooperate with LE, I think he used his dispatcher job to pretend he had knowledge superior to everyday people and that he used it to boost his own self importance. I think he said the same in real life and they probably discussed this many times. Simply watching the news will give you plenty of opportunity to start a conversation so you can act that way.
  • Her crazy statements at the funeral can be attributed easily to what she has been told, and the fact that she wants to believe that. It may be all that was getting her through that honestly.
 
I was at the court hearing and it was very clearly stated that JRH often went to the Chick Fil A with Cooper, sometimes went alone too, before work. The times when they actually sat in (as opposed to drive through) were a special treat, special daddy and baby time.. From all accounts at that Chick Fil A, JRH was pretty well known in there and seemed to really dote on his son


BBM: I don't know either.

Would be nice to know if he normally went through drive through (alone or with Cooper) or did he usually eat in (alone or with Cooper).
Was this a one time eat in to be caught on camera? or Was he the type that likes to order inside only?
One of my friends as well as my father likes to order from inside, so they can watch what the kitchen is doing. At fast food places of course :D
 
There is videio of RH and Cooper at Cfl, so that ones out.

I've thought of him forgetting also......but he checked how it would be if Cooper died in the car. Not poisoning, or chocking on food or a toy, not getting run over by a car, but to die in an oven.

In ways I 've wonder if he'd left Cooper in the car before, recently enough for LeAnna to find him and go online for herself. Maybe RH told her that he was asleep in the car when he drove home, and he didn't want to wake him ( Especially since Cooper hadn't been sleeping well the last few weeks) told her that he'd be OK, he'd checked online and Cooper would be fine. Did he park his suv in the driveway or garage?

I know there's video, but he may have been on autopilot leaving CFA. Forgetting or getting distracted and thinking he dropped Cooper off already. Reason why I say this, is one of the routines was dropping Cooper off first, eating at CFA, then go on his way to work. So out of routine after leaving CFA was to go directly to work, did he just followed in that routine?

The searches online, hmm, not sure how I feel - His defense attorney (pch video) has Stoddard stating Stoddard's the one who used the word "research", it was only looked at twice between RH,LH. Stoddard did not have all the details of when or how the viewing was done - I need more info from the police computer search. I'm sure they have plenty to go through. Probably will have to wait until trial.

What does stump me, is the backing up, being in reverse at work's parking lot - did he or did he not see Cooper? position of car seat etc. - I'm going to wait until trail for this one.

my opinion, etc., :moo:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
242
Guests online
3,140
Total visitors
3,382

Forum statistics

Threads
604,480
Messages
18,172,825
Members
232,618
Latest member
CouchdetectiveC
Back
Top