Amanda Berry, Gina deJesus & Michelle Knight FOUND! #3

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
<snipped for space>
Michelle is an adult. And unless/until some court declares her incompetent she has the right to make her own decisions and see who she chooses to see. If Mom doesn't like it, then tough.

While I agree, the one thing that makes me nervous is there are two types of "incompetent" that she could be declared (that's not the best description but I can't think of how to word it better). There can be a Guardian of a person, a Guardian of an estate (assets/property), or both. It's all over the place if you Google it but just for the sake of adding a link, here's one source I found for Ohio (it looks like states vary somewhat, but they're all similar): http://www.ohiolegalservices.org/public/legal_problem/wills-and-probate/guardianships/qandact_view

A guardian of the person is IMO the closest to "custody" for an adult. They're responsible for the person's well being, care, support, education, health, medical care, etc. A guardian of the estate, on the other hand, is responsible for the money, basically - property, any "business affairs," assets, taxes, legal claims, etc.

Both are court appointed based on loose guidelines, but always decided by the court. Also worth noting, "In almost all cases, the guardian must be an Ohio resident."

It's probably harder to be sure the guardian of the person "duties" are being carried out properly, but a guardian of the estate has a lot of accounting they have to do to prove they're handling the money appropriately. Here's a snippet from the link above:

"What duties does a guardian have?

Anyone appointed as guardian must act in the ward’s best interests. If you are a guardian of the person, you must protect and control the incompetent person. You are responsible for the person’s daily maintenance. These expenses can be paid from the ward’s estate, as approved by the court. You may also authorize health care, unless the ward or an interested party objects to the court.

If you are a guardian of the estate, you may transfer property, sign contracts and/or handle all of the ward’s other financial matters. You must also file an inventory and reports with the probate court. A guardian may not open the ward’s safety deposit box until the contents have been audited by the county auditor.

What inventory and reports must the guardian file?

As the guardian of the estate, you must file an inventory of the incompetent’s assets within three months of your appointment. Each year thereafter, you must file a report which itemizes every purchase you made on the incompetent’s behalf. Include all receipts."​

ETA: when I say "based on loose guidelines" above I mean that they have general guidelines they follow, but the end goal is always what's best for the "ward" - the person the guardian is being appointed to. For example in general it's the spouse (if there is one), a person the incapacitated person names (if there is one), adult relatives, etc. but it's not a given that the "next of kin" becomes the guardian.
 
I don't entirely agree. I do not think she is a very smart person evidenced by the fact that she was still in junior high at 17 or so and also that she was termed mentally disabled on her missing person report. She did not survive in the house of horrors without any help. The monster fed them and kept them alive. Is Michele able to carry on from now on without any help? I don't think so. She has no skills for a job. She has no place to live. She is totally dependant on help from others for now and maybe forever. I don't know how evil the mother is or is not, but she is the only person coming foward to offer a place for Michele to go.

As for the mother's motives for coming forward, she is damnned if she does and damnned if she doesn't. Had she not come forward, she would have been ridiculed for not caring. She comes forward, and is ridiculed and accused of having unsavory motives.

That isn't true- her brother has come forward and Gina's family has made it very clear Michelle is welcome there, that to them she is family.
 
Cleveland kidnap-and-rape monster Ariel Castro terrorized relatives with mannequin

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/rape_lunatic_mannequin_pal_ur80lqz5Pmqctyz9fwIXCN

It occurred to me in the middle of the night ,because I could not sleep thinking of this mess: I understand he terrorized his wife with mannequin but, I think he used it for more. I would be there was somebody else in that home... and he could tell his wife, if she THOUGHT she caught a glimpse in the window, it was the mannequin.

I know that sounds silly, but I went through a very manipulative relationship , I'm telling you it would happen like that!

Who was that with you in the basement, I saw someone, I saw something....

You're spying on me? What are you stupid? It was the mannequin. I swear, I didn't know you were so dumb.

Or even if somebody thought they saw someone in the window when he was gone, as was reported. Just my thoughts from experience, although, nothing as awful as this.
 
Well, I think it's hard to say what you would do if you were in another persons shoes. We don't know if they lost their minds and needed fámily support in another region. We don't know anything. Except apparently dad may never have lived in Ohio to begin with.

And I think if that was what was meant by your post- that you were critical because the dad left town- you probably would have posted that instead of links to articles showing tons of photos of a scraggly haired, shirtless heavily tattoed man with no mention of him leaving town.



All of that may be true or some of it or none of it. I don't know because I wasn't there. Were you?

I have heard the mother say she has come back repeatedly to put up fliers and that she never have up hope.

bbm Except that people who live there have claimed to not ever have known about Michelle being missing or ever saw a flyer of her. I know we shouldn't be condemning the mother at this point, but it's very hard not to with the info we DO have. It makes it that much easier that Michelle is refusing to see her and when her mother did manage to get in, she was told to leave. There is a reason for that - and it's not a good one I'm sure.
 
My thoughts are with little J this afternoon. So curious about what she makes of how her life has changed in the last few days. I hope she is not too confused and is enjoying all the all the attention from family members who are bound to love her cute little self to pieces.
 
Knight met with her mother Barbara Knight, who flew in from Naples, Fla., briefly on Wednesday, but afterward, that request for privacy also applied to family.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...knight-avoids-public-family-article-1.1341364
Knight met with her mother, Barbara Knight, briefly on Wednesday but then refused to see her again.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...nd_captive_is_refusing_to_see_her_family.html

She did see her mother, evidently long enough to know that they did not need to know where she went.

I don't blame her i bit. jmo

I suspect she is bitter about the loss of her child. She has had a lot of time to think about that through her ordeal and captivity, in her mind she may trace everything that happened to her back to her family situation in the beginning. That is not something that will easily be overcome, and it is going to continue to haunt her even now. She was been forced to abort, she has witnessed another woman give birth and raise a child, all the while she was forgotten by everyone and her own child was who knows where. All the things that should have given her joy have been taken from her and denied to her, and she has been powerless to do anything.

I feel so sorry for her. The other girls have been through hell too, but I think Michelle deserves the most empathy, and, sadly, I think she mostly won't get it and will soon be forgotten once again :(
 
My thoughts are with little J this afternoon. So curious about what she makes of how her life has changed in the last few days. I hope she is not too confused and is enjoying all the all the attention from family members who are bound to love her cute little self to pieces.

She may be confused but I am sure she is getting spoiled and loved on in a way she never had a chance before
 
I don't entirely agree. I do not think she is a very smart person evidenced by the fact that she was still in junior high at 17 or so and also that she was termed mentally disabled on her missing person report. She did not survive in the house of horrors without any help. The monster fed them and kept them alive. Is Michele able to carry on from now on without any help? I don't think so. She has no skills for a job. She has no place to live. She is totally dependant on help from others for now and maybe forever. I don't know how evil the mother is or is not, but she is the only person coming foward to offer a place for Michele to go.

As for the mother's motives for coming forward, she is damnned if she does and damnned if she doesn't. Had she not come forward, she would have been ridiculed for not caring. She comes forward, and is ridiculed and accused of having unsavory motives.

Michelle had never delivered a baby as far as weknow and delivered Amandas daughter, and knew to breathe for her so I don't believe she has the mind of a child, like a family member has said. It's possible with her disability she may have failed and didn't earn a credit or credits that was required and held back or may have missed to many days. Maybe her mother asked them to hold her back. The mentally disabled on the police report I assume is what the mother told them when she was abducted. I honestly believe when it comes out it will be a learning disability. The hospitial obviously disagreed with the family member who said she had the mind of a child, because they said she was an adult and capable of making her own decisions. Learning disabilitys happen alot and the adults and children usually struggle with a certain subject or subjects. Most drive, live on there own and do anything anyone else does.
 
BBM

The Cleveland public relations firm of Hennes Paynter Communication is representing all three women, said Barbara Paynter of that company. Paynter said that her firm of crisis management specialists is working pro bono after being "asked to help them out," joining a team of like-minded individuals that includes lawyers and counselors.

The rescued women, none of whom have spoken publicly since being freed, are set to issue a full statement at 10 a.m. Sunday, according to Paynter.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/11/justice/ohio-missing-women-found/index.html
 
Just wondering, what did you find unusual about her nickname? Or was it her size/height?
Her size and weight. For an adult, 4'7" is quite abnormal, don't you think? And 160 pounds is quite overweight for 4'7". I'm just thinking that somewhat points to maybe she had some kind of developmental problem, both mental and physical.
 
Her size and weight. For an adult, 4'7" is quite abnormal, don't you think? And 160 pounds is quite overweight for 4'7". I'm just thinking that somewhat points to maybe she had some kind of developmental problem, both mental and physical.

If she really is 4'7", she doesn't look to be 160 lb.
Maybe her mother didn't report her height/weight correctly when she reported her missing.
 
Michelle had never delivered a baby as far as weknow and delivered Amandas daughter, and knew to breathe for her so I don't believe she has the mind of a child, like a family member has said.
There is a lot of emphasis being placed on her saving that baby. Consider the fact that maybe Monster Castro was there instructing her what to do.
 
Her size and weight. For an adult, 4'7" is quite abnormal, don't you think? And 160 pounds is quite overweight for 4'7". I'm just thinking that somewhat points to maybe she had some kind of developmental problem, both mental and physical.

Ah ok thanks. I see what you mean now. Yes, that's quite short although I've known a few adults that were probably about this height. I hadn't thought about the height/weight together before. I wonder if the weight was accurate or just a guess when her missing poster was put together? From the pics of her not too long before her abduction she didn't look super thin, but didn't look particularly overweight either IMO. She also doesn't look all that short in the pic of her with AC's daughter that was posted earlier today, unless they're both pretty small.

Hmm. I don't know what it means, but you're right, it is unusual now that you mention it.

ETA: sorry, was thinking of the wrong pic above - it was one of Gina. I thought I saw one of Michelle earlier too that was more than just her face - if so and if I can find it again I'll post it.
 
There is a lot of emphasis being placed on her saving that baby. Consider the fact that maybe Monster Castro was there instructing her what to do.

Amanda may have too and who knows Monster castro may have bought a home birth book, not out of kindness but bc he wanted that baby and wanted Michelle to deliver a live baby. It would make sense to me he gave the girls info on how to do a birth for his own end goal
 
There is a lot of emphasis being placed on her saving that baby. Consider the fact that maybe Monster Castro was there instructing her what to do.

If he was instructing her with what to do she did it. So she is able to understand and follow instructions.
 
From the pics of her not too long before her abduction she didn't look super thin, but didn't look particularly overweight either IMO. She also doesn't look all that short in the pic of her with AC's daughter that was posted earlier today, unless they're both pretty small.
Hmmm, I have not seen any photos of her except for two face shots. Can you provide a link of the pic with her and AC's daughter? Are you sure that isn't Gina?
 
Forgive me for some of the crazy stuff I think about and write. I was just wondering about Castro's shopping trips. Didn't anyone think it odd for him to buy enough from McDonald's to feed 4 people? And what about the need for sanitary napkins, toilet paper, etc. His shopping list must have looked odd for a single male. Wouldn't he have needed to buy pampers too and baby food? I suppose he would go out of town for those things.
 
While I agree, the one thing that makes me nervous is there are two types of "incompetent" that she could be declared (that's not the best description but I can't think of how to word it better). There can be a Guardian of a person, a Guardian of an estate (assets/property), or both. It's all over the place if you Google it but just for the sake of adding a link, here's one source I found for Ohio (it looks like states vary somewhat, but they're all similar): http://www.ohiolegalservices.org/public/legal_problem/wills-and-probate/guardianships/qandact_view

A guardian of the person is IMO the closest to "custody" for an adult. They're responsible for the person's well being, care, support, education, health, medical care, etc. A guardian of the estate, on the other hand, is responsible for the money, basically - property, any "business affairs," assets, taxes, legal claims, etc.

Both are court appointed based on loose guidelines, but always decided by the court. Also worth noting, "In almost all cases, the guardian must be an Ohio resident."

It's probably harder to be sure the guardian of the person "duties" are being carried out properly, but a guardian of the estate has a lot of accounting they have to do to prove they're handling the money appropriately. Here's a snippet from the link above:

"What duties does a guardian have?

Anyone appointed as guardian must act in the ward’s best interests. If you are a guardian of the person, you must protect and control the incompetent person. You are responsible for the person’s daily maintenance. These expenses can be paid from the ward’s estate, as approved by the court. You may also authorize health care, unless the ward or an interested party objects to the court.

If you are a guardian of the estate, you may transfer property, sign contracts and/or handle all of the ward’s other financial matters. You must also file an inventory and reports with the probate court. A guardian may not open the ward’s safety deposit box until the contents have been audited by the county auditor.

What inventory and reports must the guardian file?

As the guardian of the estate, you must file an inventory of the incompetent’s assets within three months of your appointment. Each year thereafter, you must file a report which itemizes every purchase you made on the incompetent’s behalf. Include all receipts."​

ETA: when I say "based on loose guidelines" above I mean that they have general guidelines they follow, but the end goal is always what's best for the "ward" - the person the guardian is being appointed to. For example in general it's the spouse (if there is one), a person the incapacitated person names (if there is one), adult relatives, etc. but it's not a given that the "next of kin" becomes the guardian.

Great post. Excellent nutshell of the guardianship process for a disabled or incompetent adult.

I wanted to add that in IL and many other states a guardian ad litem (GAL) is also assigned by the court to examine the evidence presented in the petition for guardianship. They meet with the proposed guardian of the person and/or estate, they examine the medical and psychological reports and they meet with the proposed ward of the court. After looking at all the evidence available, the GAL then makes a written report to the court giving his/her recommendations about whether a guardianship is needed and if so, who should be made guardian. I need to do some checking on if that holds true in OH as well but I am pretty sure it does.

In addition, guardians can be appointed on either a temporary basis or a plenary (more permanent) basis.
 
Michelle had never delivered a baby as far as weknow and delivered Amandas daughter, and knew to breathe for her so I don't believe she has the mind of a child, like a family member has said. It's possible with her disability she may have failed and didn't earn a credit or credits that was required and held back or may have missed to many days. Maybe her mother asked them to hold her back. The mentally disabled on the police report I assume is what the mother told them when she was abducted. I honestly believe when it comes out it will be a learning disability. The hospitial obviously disagreed with the family member who said she had the mind of a child, because they said she was an adult and capable of making her own decisions. Learning disabilitys happen alot and the adults and children usually struggle with a certain subject or subjects. Most drive, live on there own and do anything anyone else does.

Michelle was a mother, she definitely would have been familiar with babies.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
75
Guests online
2,286
Total visitors
2,361

Forum statistics

Threads
601,613
Messages
18,126,904
Members
231,103
Latest member
maxnum
Back
Top