Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*

[Katie-L]

Based on the same 'shoddy' Italian science, experts have then locked up a black man on the same evidence and that's ok then?
I think Steve Moore has his own issues to deal with.
Jumping on the notoriety bandwagon, for what?
Can someone please give me a rational opinion as to why AK's name is writ in large red bold letters?
And the lovely Meredith Kercher and Mr Lumumba not, where is the fairness in that?
Amanda Knox is a convicted proven liar, and has done time for it.
I don't think she is capable of honesty.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about wrt to large red bold letters???

...and the evidence against Rudy (while have NOTHING to do with his skin color) is pretty conclusive. Rudy also confessed and has never recanted his confession.

The investigation on Amanda and Raffaele consists of the same fantasy imagination that had Patrick arrested.

But do be clear - Amanda Knox did not arrest Patrick Lumumba.

The police may want to deflect their irresponsible behavior on someone else - but sorry, I don't buy it. If you arrest someone without any key evidence or reason - that's on your head.

 

[Malkmus]

Based on the same 'shoddy' Italian science, experts have then locked up a black man on the same evidence and that's ok then?(snipped)

Rudy's statements corroborate the forensic evidence. He places himself at the cottage that night, and admits to sexual activity with Meredith. What on earth is anyone supposed to dispute then? And why do you keep bringing up his race, as if it makes any difference?

I, too, have no idea what you mean with regards to Amanda's name in red letters. Can you elaborate for all of us?

 

[Malkmus]

This family has engaged a PR team, did they think they needed their collective behaviour in check/cheque why go to all the bother? Public Relations companies are well know for spin and muddying waters, that's the name of the game,

The three women who escaped after ten years of confinement also have the help of a PR firm. So obviously they're not just used by people who need to put a certain spin on things.

 

[Gecko100]

I don't have any idea what you're talking about wrt to large red bold letters???

...and the evidence against Rudy (while have NOTHING to do with his skin color) is pretty conclusive. Rudy also confessed and has never recanted his confession.

The investigation on Amanda and Raffaele consists of the same fantasy imagination that had Patrick arrested.

But do be clear - Amanda Knox did not arrest Patrick Lumumba.

The police may want to deflect their irresponsible behavior on someone else - but sorry, I don't buy it. If you arrest someone without any key evidence or reason - that's on your head.

Sorry, if you thought that was meant for you, for some unknown reason AK's name appears in bolded red in some posts, and it draws my attention to them, as I am sure it does others, that is slightly influential if I may be so bold. I'm not sure why it happens. Then they get duplicated.

I am very clear that the police arrested Mr Lumumba, based on what evidence?

The same investigation that convicted RG, is now 'imagination', 'wonky science' and conducted by 'inappropriate/irresponsible police', pretty good grounds for an appeal for RG, I would have thought.
But I think he is fairly poor.

 

[Katie-L]

Sorry, if you thought that was meant for you, for some unknown reason AK's name appears in bolded red in some posts, and it draws my attention to them, as I am sure it does others, that is slightly influential if I may be so bold. I'm not sure why it happens. Then they get duplicated. It wasn't meant for you, my apologies.:blushing:

I am very clear that the police arrested Mr Lumumba, based on what evidence?

The same investigation that convicted RG, is now 'imagination', 'wonky science' and conducted by 'inappropriate/irresponsible police', pretty good grounds for an appeal for RG, I would have thought.
But I think he is fairly poor.

I've never seen Amanda's name in red letters. It might be something unique to your browser or forum settings. ??

I think you misunderstood what was being said about the wonky science.

Guede was arrested and convicted based on solid DNA evidence, footprints, fingerprints, the works. He was there. He also agrees that he was there and that he committed the crime.

Amanda, Raffaele and Patrick were all arrested based on speculation. There was never ANY evidence at the crime scene (Meredith's bedroom) tying them to the crime in any way.

Patrick was released because he had a solid, verifiable alibi. It was a bad arrest and the investigators knew that.

Amanda and Raffaele were tried based on a fantastical, bizarre theory of the crime that had NO accompanying evidence at all. The theory changed as well. From a cult sacrifice to a demonic orgy to a "sex and drug game gone wrong". Their involvement was attributed to the idea that a single person couldn't possibly have done the crime without help.

Alot of people on this forum are following the Jodi Arias trial. Can you imagine if the prosecutor just decided that there was no way she could have committed such a violent murder alone? Her victim was, after all, stabbed 27 times, shot in the head, and had his throat sliced open - all in under 2 minutes and Arias didn't have more than a few scratches and cuts.

Lets say the prosecutor was in charge of the investigation and decide that all his previous girlfriends were in on it? And that this was an ultimate revenge kill? And that everyone but Arias managed to completely remove all their DNA from the locked bedroom - leaving poor little Jodi to take the fall all on her own?

And lets say he dragged former girlfriends into an interrogation room and yelled at them in French for hours, forcing them to sign a confession - even though none of them spoke more than a few words of French?

Would a US jury find that compelling? Even if the press found it titillating?

Would it be a travesty of justice? Would it be a crime against innocent people?

I think so - and I'm pretty sure that a jury of 12 peers (in a proper jury system) would feel the same.

Yet, it seems there are a few people who believe that Amanda and Raffaele don't deserve the dignity of truth or justice. If they can be blamed - regardless of the logic - they must have done it.

Meanwhile, Meredith's murderer was allowed to appeal his sentence and have it knocked down to a length that will put him back on the streets - still young and still able to do whatever he wants with his own life.

This isn't a case of "if the glove doesn't fit - you must acquit" - it's a case of "if nothing fits, no matter how hard you try to twist it in - you must still find them guilty - along with the guy for whom everything fits".

 

[Gecko100]

She was tortured all night by the Italian police--a 20 year old girl 6000 miles from home--and they are the ones who wrote the alleged confession involving Patrick, not her. She just went along with them finally and signed it.

As soon as she got some sleep and food, she retracted it in writing.

It's more complicated than that but go read about it. There's a lot of information about what they did to her to get that false confession.

By the way, false confessions are more common than thought. Twenty five percent of confessions where DNA is present turn out to be false confessions per the Innocence Project. That's one in four.

It's amazing what you'll say when you're being tortured and are scared out of your mind.

IMO

I was discussing Ms Kercher.
Not the other one.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Sorry, if you thought that was meant for you, for some unknown reason AK's name appears in bolded red in some posts, and it draws my attention to them, as I am sure it does others, that is slightly influential if I may be so bold. I'm not sure why it happens. Then they get duplicated.

I am very clear that the police arrested Mr Lumumba, based on what evidence?

The same investigation that convicted RG, is now 'imagination', 'wonky science' and conducted by 'inappropriate/irresponsible police', pretty good grounds for an appeal for RG, I would have thought.
But I think he is fairly poor.

That happens if you use the search feature to find the thread .. for the rest of that thread the words you used to search appear in red bold ..

 

[Gecko100]

Again - I don't want to harp on this - but aren't you confusing your perception of her as a person, or of her behaviour - with evidence?

As for "black" - well, not being an american (and being from the Mediterranean) - I can assure you, dark skinned men and women in Europe do not face the same prejudice wrt the justice system or life in general.

In fact, around the Mediterranean (which is very close to Africa), "black" people are not the objects of racism in the same way as those of middle eastern background or race.

So I'm not sure why you find it so relevant that Rudy or Patrick are dark skinned (black) men. It's not as if Meredith had a choice on the skin color of the person who was going to rape, rob and murder her.

The man who did murder Meredith is in prison - and with a very short sentence that could end any day.

How just is that?

What kind of a man kills a young woman just because? What kind of man rapes and robs and steals the life of someone's daughter just because?

The kind of man who will very soon be free to walk the streets and find someone else's daughter - while a handful of people jump all over 2 innocent people trying to twist invisible and non-existent evidence.

I am also European
I guess I might find it significant if the accused doesn't come from Europe.
What kind of young drugged up amnesic has a perfectly innocent man thrown into jail based on her evidence alone, just because?

 

[redheadedgal]

gecko-- do you use the search feature all the time to locate threads? i can give you an easier way... if you want?

 

[Gecko100]

gecko-- do you use the search feature all the time to locate threads? i can give you an easier way... if you want?

No I don't always redheadedgal, but I can see now where it might have come from, that makes sense lol.
Thank-you

 

[sherlockh]

Can you figure out another reason why not more defensive wounds--like she was knocked out or something? Because as the retired FBI agent said, there was only one person in that room with her, and his footprints, fingerprints, and DNA were everywhere in that room in her blood. No other perps could have been in that room with her and Rudy.

If someone were holding down her arms and legs, there would still be bruising in those areas where she was held. Is there any evidence of this?

IMO

There was no major head wound to show that she was unconscious (like with Nicole Simpson for example). Knox apparently 'lucky guessed' Meredith was conscious since she claimed to have heard screaming. Guede, and 2 other witnesses claimed to have heard a loud scream as well.

There was bruising by both elbows showing where she was held (probably by Guede from behind IMO). The person who held her by both arms could not have strangled her and caused the bruising and major wounds by the neck with 2 different knives. That makes no sense.

The defense tried to claim one knife was used. They said it was used as a saw to explain the different widths of the wounds but the judge rejected that theory. Besides the different wounds from opposing angles, there is the proof of a smaller knife imprint on the bed, and Meredith's DNA on the blade of a bigger knife in Sollecito's apartment. The defense themselves realized a single attacker doesn't make any sense otherwise they would have never come up with the jail witnesses that claimed 'others' had done it IMO.

If somebody uses such a generic term as 'everywhere' my hinky meter immediately goes up. What does 'everywhere' mean? Guede left one trace of DNA on Meredith's clothes as evidence of the initial fight. 2 Traces of Guede, and 1 trace of Sollecito as evidence of the sexual assault. From the horrible attack at her neck, the bruising, the hair pulling, the strangling, the stabbings was no DNA left. It is silly to keep repeating this. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[sherlockh]

Guede was arrested and convicted based on solid DNA evidence, footprints, fingerprints, the works. He was there. He also agrees that he was there and that he committed the crime.

Amanda, Raffaele and Patrick were all arrested based on speculation. There was never ANY evidence at the crime scene (Meredith's bedroom) tying them to the crime in any way.

*Snipped*. Evidence against the other 2 is as solid as against Guede. The crime scene doesn't suddenly stop at Meredith's door. You are stuck with fruit pulp, Guede hopping around on one shoe to explain the missing prints to the bathroom, Guede merging 2 toes and shrinking his foot a few sizes to fit the bathmat print, the invisible burglar, 5 traces of mixed blood/DNA that is all just 'normal', a 'coercion' in half an hour, and a whole bunch of other silly apologies to explain away the evidence. The judges in Florence are not gonna buy that nonsense.

Amanda and Raffaele were tried based on a fantastical, bizarre theory of the crime that had NO accompanying evidence at all. The theory changed as well. From a cult sacrifice to a demonic orgy to a "sex and drug game gone wrong". Their involvement was attributed to the idea that a single person couldn't possibly have done the crime without help.

Lol, how you come up with that stuff? Lets see what the prosecutor himself says in an interview with CNN.

1’03” CNN: You’ve never said that Meredith’s death was a satanic rite?
1’08” Mignini: I have never said that. I have never understood who has and continues to say that. I read, there was a reporter, – I don’t know his name, I mention it because I noticed it, – who continues to repeat this claim that, perhaps, knowing full well that it’s not like that. I have never said that there might have been a satanic rite. I’ve never said it, so I would like to know who made it up. This is a conspiracy, a fantasy, to my detriment though, to my detriment. Simply a sexual act. And maybe I have always said, I maintained this in the first-instance trial, there was a relationship which deteriorated between the two girls. I’ve always maintained that. I’ll tell you this because…

Witnesses reported the relationship between Knox and Meredith had deteriorated. That there was a sexual assault involved is obvious. Knox and her bf themselves claimed that had used drugs that night. This is what was discussed in court. Nothing about any cult sacrifice.

This isn't a case of "if the glove doesn't fit - you must acquit" - it's a case of "if nothing fits, no matter how hard you try to twist it in - you must still find them guilty - along with the guy for whom everything fits".

I understand this is just your opinion but it completely contradicts what is actually being discussed in court. Just repeating 'no evidence' is silly because we had years of trials and a zillion pages in this threat discussing the evidence. There is at least 10 pieces of evidence who all by themselves already would be enough to convict Knox in any court IMO.

 

[kwmred]

The evidence supports a short violent struggle with one attacker who quickly overwhelmed the victim. Meredith's neck wounds are consistent with one knife of the shape and size indicated by the bloody outline on the bed. The larger of these wounds was not survivable and she would have lost consciousness rather quickly. The sexual assault happened afterwards, when Meredith was no longer capable of any resistance.

We don't know for certain where the fight started, but Rudy's statements do give us a clue. He claimed to have engaged Meredith's attacker in the kitchen, perhaps expecting the investigators to find signs of a fight there. Any such evidence would have been trampled by the small crowd in the room shortly before the body was discovered. Rudy didn't fight Meredith's attacker after leaving the bathroom, he fought Meredith.

Meredith arrived home while Rudy was sitting on the toilet. He probably waited a bit, then tried to sneak out the front door. But Meredith would have locked that with her key after entering. A quick scuffle in the kitchen, then a chase into Meredith's bedroom where he quickly overwhelmed the poor girl using his size advantage and a knife..

A few weeks before the murder, Rudy was confronted by a homeowner after climbing into a Perugia home via a window. Rudy responded by pulling a knife and threatening the homeowner.

Thank you!!

 

[Malkmus]

(snipped)
What kind of young drugged up amnesic has a perfectly innocent man thrown into jail based on her evidence alone, just because?

I think the more appropriate question is:

What kind of police force has a perfectly innocent man thrown into jail based on her evidence alone, just because?

 

[miley]

Speaking of false confessions... has anyone been watching the new series on the Sundance Channel called Rectify?
if you haven't seen it, watch the preview: http://www.sundancechannel.com/series/rectify/full-episode

The main character, Daniel, (falsely) confessed to the rape/murder of his high school girlfriend. Following her death he exhibited some strange behavior plus there was eyewitness - he was ultimately sentenced to death. The story begins 19 years later when his conviction is vacated due to new dna. On his release, the town is divided and the prosecutor may retry him. The best part though, is watching Daniel acclimate to life outside of prison - it's fascinating.

Damien Echols (West Memphis Three) said the show was too realistic for him - in a review for the Huff Post, regarding Daniel's false confession, he wrote:

Law enforcement and politicians in the show say that despite what DNA testing shows, the lead character would not have confessed if he weren't guilty. That greatly mirrors the sentiments I've heard in the outside world. The reality is that anyone can be so worn down that they'll eventually confess to anything, no matter how strong they believe themselves to be. And it happens all the time -- from people who are killed after confessing to practicing witchcraft, to people sentenced to lethal injection even though the crime scene bears no resemblance to the confession tortured out of them. Huffington Post
​

Even though Amanda never confessed to murdering Meredith, you can see the parallels.

 

[Malkmus]

There was bruising by both elbows showing where she was held (probably by Guede from behind IMO).

Is this your personal theory regarding the elbow injuries? Because that's not what the coroner said:

"He then proceeded to describe the two bruised areas present on the left elbow of the victim, and with regard to these, he stated that these were not marks caused by restraining, but hypostatic stains. But since he could not absolutely exclude that they might be bruises stemming from an effort of the victim to defend herself, he noted that the fact that they were present only on the left forearm at the level of the elbow would mean that the forearm remained free, making it difficult to attribute the bruises to the fact of having been restrained."

The person who held her by both arms could not have strangled her and caused the bruising and major wounds by the neck with 2 different knives. That makes no sense.

The following is the header of the section on her injuries from the Massei report:

"The consultants and forensic scientists have asserted that from the point of view of forensic science, it cannot be ruled out that the author of the injuries could have been a single attacker, because the bruises and the wounds from a pointed and cutting weapon are not in themselves incompatible with the action of a single person."

The rest of Massei's logic concerning multiple attackers stems from how he thinks Meredith should have been able to fight back, and should have had more defensive wounds. The flawed logic here, as demonstrated by other posters here and in many other cases, is when threatened with physical and sexual violence it is not unlikely that the victim will either comply or simply go into shock.

http://www.nationalguard.mil/jointstaff/j1/sapr/files/Barriers_to_Credibility.pdf

Barriers to Credibility
Understanding and Countering Rape Myths
by Lynn Hecht Schafran Director of National Judicial Education Program
Legal Momentum

Quote:
Myth 3. A woman who was truly being raped would offer utmost physical resistance.

Fact: Many rape victims offer no physical resistance whatsoever. Despite changes in rape law to eliminate the requirement for earnest resistance, the lingering demand for evidence of physical resistance on the part of some judges and jurors reflects a lack of awareness of how rape usually happens.

There are several reasons why many victims do not resist.

The first is women’s lifetime of socialization to be nice. Many victims do not resist at the start of an assault because they are afraid of embarrassing themselves or the assailant. Women and girls are socialized from birth to be polite, to smile, not to offend and not to say “no” because it may hurt someone’s feelings. By the time these women realize how much danger they are in, it is too late to resist.

Second is the fact that men's greater size and strength are in themselves threatening to women and are often enough either to intimidate the victim or to overcome her resistance.
Even when no force is used beyond the intimidation factor of the man's size and/or greater strength, women experience great fear and indeed often fear for their lives. "I thought he was going to kill me" is a common statement from rape victims. In the Rape in America study 49% of rape victims feared serious physical injury or death. This fear causes some women to make a strategic decision not to offer physical resistance. They believe with good reason that submission will increase their chances of surviving the rape, or surviving without major physical injury.

Other women experience one of two terror-induced altered states of consciousness called dissociation and frozen fright which render them totally passive. For some victims of both stranger and nonstranger rape the psychic stress is so extreme that they dissociate during the rape, saying later that they felt it was a terrible dream, or that it was as if the attack were happening to their body and they were watching it from the outside.

The defense tried to claim one knife was used. They said it was used as a saw to explain the different widths of the wounds but the judge rejected that theory. Besides the different wounds from opposing angles, there is the proof of a smaller knife imprint on the bed, and Meredith's DNA on the blade of a bigger knife in Sollecito's apartment.

The kitchen knife was too big to make most of the wounds, but a smaller knife, the size of the one imprinted on the bed could have made all the wounds.

The defense themselves realized a single attacker doesn't make any sense otherwise they would have never come up with the jail witnesses that claimed 'others' had done it IMO.

The defense argued simply that a a single attacker could not be ruled out, as others agreed.

 

[Malkmus]

*Snipped*. Evidence against the other 2 is as solid as against Guede. The crime scene doesn't suddenly stop at Meredith's door. You are stuck with fruit pulp, Guede hopping around on one shoe to explain the missing prints to the bathroom, Guede merging 2 toes and shrinking his foot a few sizes to fit the bathmat print, the invisible burglar, 5 traces of mixed blood/DNA that is all just 'normal', a 'coercion' in half an hour, and a whole bunch of other silly apologies to explain away the evidence. The judges in Florence are not gonna buy that nonsense.

None of what you listed is evidence against Amanda and Raf.

Lol, how you come up with that stuff? Lets see what the prosecutor himself says in an interview with CNN.

Mignini is known to lie. In two different interviews he gives conflicting reasons for why the interrogations weren't taped. But he did state the murder was committed as a "Halloween rite". Satanic or Halloween, both are nutty. The pre-trial judge threw his theory out.

The murder, Il Tempo newspaper reported him telling the court, “was premeditated and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Hallowe’en. A sexual and sacrificial rite ... In the intention of the organisers, the rite should have occurred 24 hours earlier” – on Hallowe’en itself – “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organised by Meredith and Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed for one day. The presumed assassins contented themselves with the evening of 1 November to perform their do-it-yourself rite, when for some hours it would again be the night of All Saints.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...ck-981759.html

When this has been shown to you in the past, you've tried to write it off as the defense making it up. But it's in Judge Micheli's report!

(un po’ lumeggiate dal P.M., pur non contestandole, nella a dir poco fantasiosa ricostruzione descrittiva di riti, festini di Halloween, pubblicazioni manga ed occasioni da non lasciarsi sfuggire, magari dopo una pantomima di prova generale davanti al malcapitato K.

I understand this is just your opinion but it completely contradicts what is actually being discussed in court. Just repeating 'no evidence' is silly because we had years of trials and a zillion pages in this threat discussing the evidence. There is at least 10 pieces of evidence who all by themselves already would be enough to convict Knox in any court IMO.

But most of it revolves around Knox's "narcissism", her family, what she wrote in an unrecorded interrogation without a lawyer present, and forensics that point at just about anyone who lived at the house.

 

[Gecko100]

Isn't it true that proceedings have begun by the Italian Police regarding the outrageous lies contained in both of the books written by RS and AK?

 

[Gecko100]

I think the more appropriate question is:

What kind of police force has a perfectly innocent man thrown into jail based on her evidence alone, just because?

Sorry I just can't agree with that.
I think the police wouldn't have gone anywhere near him if he hadn't been mentioned, it was after all still under investigation.
Police officers in all countries investigate leads.
AK gave them a false lead, and was charged and convicted for it.

 

[Malkmus]

Isn't it true that proceedings have begun by the Italian Police regarding the outrageous lies contained in both of the books written by RS and AK?

Not that I've heard. Do you have a link?