Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#3

[otto]

Why wouldn't they just use a knife from AK's apartment? Bringing the knife, and bringing it back, seem highly improbable to me.

Jim

Let's suppose that Knox and Sollecito were going to meet Guede to buy some drugs. Let's suppose that this was set up by Knox. That's not outside of the realm of reality. Let's suppose they wanted some good drugs to celebrate the night of the dead - as this event had particular significance for Sollecito. We know that Sollecito's bank account was nearly empty (he was waiting for his father to top it up at the beginning of the month). Meredith had 300 euros of rent money at the cottage, money that could be used to buy more drugs - money that was missing. Reportedly, they were whacked out on drugs in the afternoon. Why not have a drug induced paranoid moment and bring a knife to a meeting with the scary "black" guy so they could get more whacked in the evening?

As for bringing the knife back to Sollecito's apartment, they had no reason to believe that Sollecito's apartment would be searched ... and it's a known fact that murderers like to keep trophies, so why wouldn't a knife collectors that used a knife in a murder keep the knife as a trophy?

 

[SMK]

[. . . ]We know that Sollecito's bank account was nearly empty (he was waiting for his father to top it up at the beginning of the month). Meredith had 300 euros of rent money at the cottage, money that could be used to buy more drugs - money that was missing.[. . . ]

Just trying to keep all details and facts straight as I read along: Didn't Knox have plenty of money in her own account?

 

[SMK]

The same way the spin has been to refer to AK/RS as so young and there's no reason for this young couple to have committed this crime. All the while putting sole responsibility on RG. Wanting everyone to forget that he is younger than RS and only months older than AK but that is never mentioned when referencing their age.

BBM: I originally found their youth to be a strong point for innocence: Wanting to involve a young girl in a threesome or to rape her, to my thinking, was more a middle-aged perversion. Not something a young, healthy couple would need to consider.

But since reading extensively on the case of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka - both young, collegiate , middle class, blue eyed and blonde in their 20s - I can see that youth simply is not an argument. Nor is whiteness, nor middle class status, etc. Not to say they are guilty- just that youth is no argument for innocence.

 

[Footwarrior]

The US media has, for six years, tried to paint Guede as a black, homeless drifter and drug dealer, but, of the three convicted murderers, he was the only one that had roots in Perugia. He was raised by a prominent family in Perugia, he was not a drifter, he was not homeless and, to his credit, he accepted responsibility for his involvement in the murder.

It has even been recently suggested here that because he was a homeless, drug dealing drifter he broke into the cottage to use the bathroom (since homeless drifters don't have bathrooms) ... this apparently explains why he allegedly threw a rock through Filomina's window and scaled a shear 13 foot wall to enter the cottage.

Your defense of Rudy Guede is touching but misguided. Rudy wasn't homeless, but he was jobless. With no visible means of support he was managing to get by and pay his rent. A clue as to how is the three prior breaking and entering incident he is known to have been involved with in the month before the murder. The incident where a knife was pulled on a Perugia homeowner by an intruder later identified as Guede. The burglary of a lawyers office in Perugia where entry was made by breaking a second story window. Guede was caught in possession of a laptop and cell phone stolen from that office. And finally the nursery school in Milan that Guede broke into only a few days before the murder.

 

[dgfred]

So no unemployment or other benefits available in Italy?

 

[SMK]

So no unemployment or other benefits available in Italy?

Is there any published material available indicating Guede received unemployment benefits? (might go a long way in clearing up the mystery of his self-support)

 

[SMK]

For what it's worth, I do see Guede's father collected unemployment, so maybe the son knew to, as well. but then there was some thieving on his part ---- erm...Okie..........:seeya:

 

[~n/t~]

Is there any published material available indicating Guede received unemployment benefits? (might go a long way in clearing up the mystery of his self-support)

This is all I could find.

Wiki

He rented a student flat in via Canarino in Perugia and lived there from July 2007 until the time of the murder. How he lived for those three months is uncertain: some have suggested that he turned to petty crime; Russell, Johnson and Garofano, in their book, say he lived off his savings; it is likely also that he was entitled to state benefits: if he had worked and made Social Security contributions in the previous two years, he would have been entitled to unemployment benefits equal to 40% of his previous pay.[5]

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Rudy_Hermann_Guede

 

[Amber29]

While we are on the subject of the knife being brought back to Raffaeles, lets discuss the journal he told the lie about pricking Meredith. This is the following line:

"I am worried [non sono tranquillo] because if they found such a small [così irrisoria] trace they can find other [small traces] on the rags and so on... What a nightmare!"

Now why would he think they would find traces on rags....

 

[otto]

Just trying to keep all details and facts straight as I read along: Didn't Knox have plenty of money in her own account?

Going from memory, but I think that she had about $4000 in her account. That money had to last her the entire academic year ... another 6-8 months. $500/month is clearly not enough money given that her rent was 300 euros per month. She was so short on cash that she was working, without a visa, at Patrick's bar, and it does appear that she was angling to move in with Sollecito.

 

[SMK]

Going from memory, but I think that she had about $4000 in her account. That money had to last her the entire academic year ... another 6-8 months. $500/month is clearly not enough money given that her rent was 300 euros per month. She was so short on cash that she was working, without a visa, at Patrick's bar, and it does appear that she was angling to move in with Sollecito.

Thanks, otto.

 

[whoanellie]

Your defense of Rudy Guede is touching but misguided. Rudy wasn't homeless, but he was jobless. With no visible means of support he was managing to get by and pay his rent. A clue as to how is the three prior breaking and entering incident he is known to have been involved with in the month before the murder. The incident where a knife was pulled on a Perugia homeowner by an intruder later identified as Guede. The burglary of a lawyers office in Perugia where entry was made by breaking a second story window. Guede was caught in possession of a laptop and cell phone stolen from that office. And finally the nursery school in Milan that Guede broke into only a few days before the murder.

Sometimes I can't figure out if folks are trying to prove that Amanda is guilty or are trying to convince the world of Guede's innocence. Poor Rudy led astray by the evil temptress.....:banghead:

 

[otto]

Your defense of Rudy Guede is touching but misguided. Rudy wasn't homeless, but he was jobless. With no visible means of support he was managing to get by and pay his rent. A clue as to how is the three prior breaking and entering incident he is known to have been involved with in the month before the murder. The incident where a knife was pulled on a Perugia homeowner by an intruder later identified as Guede. The burglary of a lawyers office in Perugia where entry was made by breaking a second story window. Guede was caught in possession of a laptop and cell phone stolen from that office. And finally the nursery school in Milan that Guede broke into only a few days before the murder.

I have no interest in defending a murderer, but I do have an interest in working with the facts. How can we figure out what happened if we skew the facts against one of the murderers? Guede was raised in Perugia. Throughout his childhood, he lived with a prominent Perugian family. He was between jobs, as the restaurant in Milan where he had been working had failed financially. He had his own apartment in Perugia (just like the other two culprits), he was not a drifter, he had no criminal record, and his drug history was no different than that of Knox. Sollecito had a more serious drug history.

When Guede was found at the nursery school, he did nothing other than explain that he was told that the place was for squatters. He had a knife on him when he spoke to police. Sollecito had a knife on him when he was arrested.

 

[SMK]

Sometimes I can't figure out if folks are trying to prove that Amanda is guilty or are trying to convince the world of Guede's innocence. Poor Rudy led astray by the evil temptress.....:banghead:

I guess one good thing is that no one appears to be racist ("black man found, black man guilty"). Guede is far from innocent; I guess the only question is, did he act alone, or in concert as the Supreme Court has insisted?

ETA: Were I on the jury, my main questions would be, can it really be shown that there was a real, and not a staged, break in; and is there any indication that the SC was wrong in ruling for multiple attackers?

 

[OldSteve]

Your defense of Rudy Guede is touching but misguided. Rudy wasn't homeless, but he was jobless. With no visible means of support he was managing to get by and pay his rent. A clue as to how is the three prior breaking and entering incident he is known to have been involved with in the month before the murder. The incident where a knife was pulled on a Perugia homeowner by an intruder later identified as Guede. The burglary of a lawyers office in Perugia where entry was made by breaking a second story window. Guede was caught in possession of a laptop and cell phone stolen from that office. And finally the nursery school in Milan that Guede broke into only a few days before the murder.

Thanks for info above... shows to me RG was on a path of increasing his robberies, and gives motive to first trying to rob, then trying to sexually assault Meredith..
But how he could do it all by himself remains a mystery to me... considering it was said the attack took 10 minutes, which is a very long time.. would have thought she would have made it out of her room and that there would be evidence of his dragging/forcing her back in...
something not right about that, and hence I can see why it later felt he had to had help...
even if only someone(s) were standing in the doorway pushing her back into him... and perhaps under drugs influence, perhaps thinking it all a dream, egging him on...

 

[~n/t~]

Sometimes I can't figure out if folks are trying to prove that Amanda is guilty or are trying to convince the world of Guede's innocence. Poor Rudy led astray by the evil temptress.....:banghead:

I don't see anyone trying to convince anyone of Guede's innocence. I think we all know he was involved.

 

[SMK]

Your defense of Rudy Guede is touching but misguided. Rudy wasn't homeless, but he was jobless. With no visible means of support he was managing to get by and pay his rent. A clue as to how is the three prior breaking and entering incident he is known to have been involved with in the month before the murder. The incident where a knife was pulled on a Perugia homeowner by an intruder later identified as Guede. The burglary of a lawyers office in Perugia where entry was made by breaking a second story window. Guede was caught in possession of a laptop and cell phone stolen from that office. And finally the nursery school in Milan that Guede broke into only a few days before the murder.

There is a strong argument for Guede acting as a lone wolf and robbing/raping Meredith Kercher (and I was initially wholly convinced that this was in fact the case). The lone wolf theory is still a good option.

The problems are, why did the Supreme Court rule that there had to have been multiple attackers, and that Kercher had been restrained? Did they really simply stick with the prosecution and the defense of Guede? Why?
Why such messy and suspicious behavior on the part of Knox and Sollecito? Why the chief inspector's belief that the scene was staged? Is Mignini really simply a fanatic who won't let go of a theory? What if his theory contains some truth? I really don't know what to think anymore....I would hate to be on that jury.

Wish there was a special video camera you could set up in that cottage, which would pick up the past, and film it. Then we could see exactly , in detail, what happened that night.

 

[OldSteve]

There is a strong argument for Guede acting as a lone wolf and robbing/raping Meredith Kercher (and I was initially wholly convinced that this was in fact the case). The lone wolf theory is still a good option.

The problems are, why did the Supreme Court rule that there had to have been multiple attackers, and that Kercher had been restrained? Did they really simply stick with the prosecution and the defense of Guede? Why?
Why such messy and suspicious behavior on the part of Knox and Sollecito? Why the chief inspector's belief that the scene was staged? Is Mignini really simply a fanatic who won't let go of a theory? What if his theory contains some truth? I really don't know what to think anymore....I would hate to be on that jury.

Wish there was a special video camera you could set up in that cottage, which would pick up the past, and film it. Then we could see exactly , in detail, what happened that night.

All my thoughts too, but better stated!

I never bought into the idea of this being a sex orgy.. that implied consent of some sort...

I wonder how this case might have turned out if presented to show Rudy was the person doing the stabbing, while others (perhaps under drugs influence, perhaps thinking it all a dream) were egging him on and were preventing MK from fleeing or leaving her room... throwing her back into him... holding her by the wrists...

Having said that, then I'm confused as to if that were so, why didn't Rudy come out and say that? AK named her boss, so why would not Rudy want to please LE and name AK/RS?

 

[SMK]

All my thoughts too, but better stated!

I never bought into the idea of this being a sex orgy.. that implied consent of some sort...

I wonder how this case might have turned out if presented to show Rudy was the person doing the stabbing, while others (perhaps under drugs influence, perhaps thinking it all a dream) were egging him on and were preventing MK from fleeing or leaving her room... throwing her back into him... holding her by the wrists...

Having said that, then I'm confused as to if that were so, why didn't Rudy come out and say that? AK named her boss, so why would not Rudy want to please LE and name AK/RS?

thanks Yes, I entertained such a scenario, too. And I've had the same question Re Guede. This case is just so murky. I've followed many cases, but have never been as conflicted as I am now...

 

[Sonata]

Some random thoughts...

If I believed they are all guilty, I still would not think the knife is a likely murder weapon. It seems so ridiculous that they would take it back to RS's instead of dumping it somewhere. I probably have buried it in some random place and bought a new one.

If the scene was staged, why wouldn't they throw the rock through MK's window? Or, make it look like more was stolen and tell the police that? It just seems such a crappy staging. Why bother saying the door was open if you took the trouble to make it look like the entry was through the window?

These kids are fairly bright. It seems odd to do such a sketchy job of it.

Why not go to Gubbio? They could have taken a bag with all their clothes and the knife and dumped it somewhere there, leaving the others to deal with the crime scene.

I find it a bit jarring that everyone seems to try to present Amanda as a charmer, when she seems to get people's backs up. MK supposedly walked into her job at the bar and sounds more of a charmer. AK is also slated for hooking up with RS so quickly, yet MK was also seeing the guy downstairs. It's such a double standard.

If they were all three involved, why does RG not help with the supposed clean up? Wouldn't the mat and the turd be gone off he did? And if the mat print is RS's, why didn't they dispose of the mat?

The clean up and staging both seem so half hearted.