Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#3

[Amber29]

Had Knox and Sollecito (whether guilty or innocent) simply left on their trip, leaving others to discover the crime and call authorities, do you think they would have been suspects?

Yes I do think even if they had they would've been caught because I believe the evidence points to them. I just think they felt the need to stick around and see how things went and what people's initial thoughts were. It's normal I think for people would commit the crime to hang and around. Look at all MacNeil did to control his wife's discovery and murder scene.

 

[jgsmith]

I think it really comes down to this: Were these 2 normal young people (as normal as they appeared to be?) or was there real pathology brewing? The drugs or acid need not even make an appearance, as I will explain below:

I used to think it was stupid to make the leap to 'pathology brewing'. Until I began to read about Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka (NOT saying that Knox and Sollecito are anything like these 2, though).

The latter in all aspects appeared normal and well-adjusted: So much so, that when a police composite looked like Bernardo, they still didn't bother to test his DNA. And why? Because he was white, blonde, blue eyed, smiley, polite, soft-spoken, eloquent; he was college educated, came from a good family, and all the same could be said of his young, demur wife. Two pleasant and well-liked people in their 20s, with a profession, a house, lots of love from family and friends.

Why on earth would they be compelled to embark on kidnappings, drugging, raping, sodomizing, strangling, dismembering? And yet they did.......So what does this have to do with Knox and Sollecito? Nothing, except to illustrate that IF there is real pathology, the exterior may hide it so well that no one suspects a thing until the bizarre crime has occurred.

And it doesn't even take drugs or acid for such to occur, if the fuse is lit, and the pathology deeply rooted. The scariest thing is, it was only their 2 personalities fused that caused just the right chemistry for real pathology of the degree and kind they displayed.

Could Knox and Sollecito have been a fatal combination?

Possible? Yes. Plausible? Only if they were lunatics under the skin. All hinges on this. Otherwise, to suspect them is absurd.

Very good point.


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[otto]

Well, there is the entire speculation that she would have gone out to buy "hard" drugs. From Guede, no less. Based on what other than a desire to see Amanda Knox under the worst possible light? There certainly is no indication she had ever tried harder drugs.

And why in the world would Raffaele (drove and Audi, had a housekeeper) or Amanda (full back account in Italy, full savings account in the US, and parents ready to help if needed) think to steal money? Sounds again like justifying an irrational hate of Amanda by painting her in the worst possible way.

Sollecito had used hard drugs and Day of the Dead (not Halloween) meant something to him.

This premise is false: people with money in their pockets do not steal, so anything that follows is not valid.

 

[SMK]

Yes I do think even if they had they would've been caught because I believe the evidence points to them. I just think they felt the need to stick around and see how things went and what people's initial thoughts were. It's normal I think for people would commit the crime to hang and around. Look at all MacNeil did to control his wife's discovery and murder scene.

I waver on the evidence but yes, it is not uncommon for perpetrators to try and watch an investigation unfold.

 

[jgsmith]

The referencing them as typical kids who come from good homes doesn't equal innocence.
I don't know what your version of a typical kid is but for me these two are young adults. I also don't think it's far fetched to think someone who smokes pot regularly would branch out.

You asked Otto why he gives Rudy the benefit of the doubt and not AK/RS.

Well why do you feel he's so much more capable of murder than AK/RS? What is so different about him and his upbringing that makes him a murderer and not them? Lets keep in mind that he's a "typical kid" as you said as they are as well. He's months older than AK and younger than RS.

1. He confessed
2. He had sex with MK right before she was murdered
3. His DNA is all over the crime scene
4. He had a history of exactly the type of break-in and theft as happened at the cottage

None of these apply to either AK or RS.

Jim


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[jgsmith]

Jodi Arias?

Damn. You beat me to it!


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[jgsmith]

Keep in mind that we're trying to understand why a "whacked out" stoned person - someone that was stoned every day for a couple of weeks - would decide to carry a knife.

I don't think there is any evidence that AK and RS were "stoned every day for a couple of weeks". Where are you getting this from? Also, as I've said before, pot makes you want to chill, not go find someone to kill.

Jim


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[Amber29]

Well, there is the entire speculation that she would have gone out to buy "hard" drugs. From Guede, no less. Based on what other than a desire to see Amanda Knox under the worst possible light? There certainly is no indication she had ever tried harder drugs.

And why in the world would Raffaele (drove and Audi, had a housekeeper) or Amanda (full back account in Italy, full savings account in the US, and parents ready to help if needed) think to steal money? Sounds again like justifying an irrational hate of Amanda by painting her in the worst possible way.

The whole point of harder drugs is just that speculation.

I would say some (myself included)feel the need of assuming these young adults were whacked out of their minds to commit such a horrendous crime. When the fact is that people in their right mind commit these crimes everyday but it's hard for some to wrap their minds around that. There's no proof of harder drugs being used that night but that doesn't change what happened and by who. Its why IMO the prosecutors didn't include harder drugs in their theory even though they could very well believe they were.

 

[Amber29]

1. He confessed
2. He had sex with MK right before she was murdered
3. His DNA is all over the crime scene
4. He had a history of exactly the type of break-in and theft as happened at the cottage

None of these apply to either AK or RS.

Jim


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1. Amanda accused an innocent person and left him behind bars
2. I don't think there's proof RG had sex with MK
3. His DNA is not all over when you think about how many spots were tested.
Amanda's DNA and Meredith's blood are mixed in multiple spots including a
Spot in Filomenas room.
Raffaeles DNA is on Meredith's bra and a bloody footprint attributed to him is
on the bathmat.
4. So he typically threw huge rocks through a window and scaled a wall with out leaving any evidence on the wall and no evidence he was is that room? (It was muddy that night)

I'm not defending Rudy Guede here btw I just choose not to overlook or justify evidence against Amanda and Raffaele.

 

[jgsmith]

1. Amanda accused an innocent person and left him behind bars
2. I don't think there's proof RG had sex with MK
3. His DNA is not all over when you think about how many spots were tested.
Amanda's DNA and Meredith's blood are mixed in multiple spots including a
Spot in Filomenas room.
Raffaeles DNA is on Meredith's bra and a bloody footprint attributed to him is
on the bathmat.
4. So he typically threw huge rocks through a window and scaled a wall with out leaving any evidence on the wall and no evidence he was is that room? (It was muddy that night)

I'm not defending Rudy Guede here btw I just choose not to overlook or justify evidence against Amanda and Raffaele.

1. Accusing an innocent person of murder, while terrible, is a far cry from murdering someone.
2. I didn't think there was any debate about RG having had sex with MK before she was murdered. Help me out here, is this wrong?
3. There is more than enough of RG's DNA in MK's room. Did I mention he confessed?
4. He typically broke a window, entered, stole money and laptops. Sounds pretty similar to me.

Jim


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[Amber29]

1. He confessed
2. He had sex with MK right before she was murdered
3. His DNA is all over the crime scene
4. He had a history of exactly the type of break-in and theft as happened at the cottage

None of these apply to either AK or RS.

Jim


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And btw you missed my whole point that your description of AK/RS being "typical kids from good homes" applies to Rudy Guede as well and he's clearly guilty. Meaning typical kids from good homes commit and are capable of murder too.

 

[Monzoo]

Sollecito had used hard drugs and Day of the Dead (not Halloween) meant something to him.

This premise is false: people with money in their pockets do not steal, so anything that follows is not valid.

So... Raffaele once tried harder drugs so it is reasonable to speculate Amanda would at the spur of the moment? I seem to remember that they were given drug tests, that came out negative.

At the same time you object to speculations based on what seems to be an escalating pattern of burglaries by Guede. Or on the fact that he had no visible means of support.

I have no idea why the Mexican holiday of Day of the Dead would mean anything to Raffaele. Have you confused that with All Saints Day? I have to say, I have not heard that it was of particular importance to Raffaele. It also is not a holiday which immediately brings out the idea of a big party.

 

[redheadedgal]

1. Amanda accused an innocent person and left him behind bars
2. I don't think there's proof RG had sex with MK
3. His DNA is not all over when you think about how many spots were tested.
Amanda's DNA and Meredith's blood are mixed in multiple spots including a
Spot in Filomenas room.
Raffaeles DNA is on Meredith's bra and a bloody footprint attributed to him is
on the bathmat.
4. So he typically threw huge rocks through a window and scaled a wall with out leaving any evidence on the wall and no evidence he was is that room? (It was muddy that night)

I'm not defending Rudy Guede here btw I just choose not to overlook or justify evidence against Amanda and Raffaele.

1. PL lied (on the stand i believe) about firing amanda. is that ok? AK did not leave PL behind bars. that police couldn't be bothered to investigate him as a suspect before arresting him is not on knox, neither is the fact it look police so long to clear him. amanda recanted that accusation shortly after. the fact PL remained in jail for two weeks (it took police that long to clear him?) is on the police as well.
2. RG's dna was found INSIDE meredith. what exactly do you think this means?
3. compared to knox and raff, YES, his dna was all over including inside MK. amanda lived in the cottage... finding her dna outside MK's room is not suspect. the footprint is more compatible with RG. please explain the other 3-4 dna profiles found on the clasp...
4. you want evidence to prove RG scaled the wall/was in that bedroom but the fact nothing puts amanda in MK's bedroom is meaningless? quite the double standard imo.

 

[Monzoo]

The whole point of harder drugs is just that speculation.

I would say some (myself included)feel the need of assuming these young adults were whacked out of their minds to commit such a horrendous crime. When the fact is that people in their right mind commit these crimes everyday but it's hard for some to wrap their minds around that. There's no proof of harder drugs being used that night but that doesn't change what happened and by who. Its why IMO the prosecutors didn't include harder drugs in their theory even though they could very well believe they were.

Of course, there is also the possibility that they didn't actually commit this crime.

 

[Amber29]

1. Accusing an innocent person of murder, while terrible, is a far cry from murdering someone.
2. I didn't think there was any debate about RG having had sex with MK before she was murdered. Help me out here, is this wrong?
3. There is more than enough of RG's DNA in MK's room. Did I mention he confessed?
4. He typically broke a window, entered, stole money and laptops. Sounds pretty similar to me.

Jim


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From my memory there's no evidence of actual sex although I could be wrong and don't want to go into details of her autopsy.
Yes you mentioned he confessed. In his confession did he include throwing that rock and climbing through a window?
Strange that he left Filomenas and Amanda's laptops in their rooms.

 

[otto]

1. Accusing an innocent person of murder, while terrible, is a far cry from murdering someone.
2. I didn't think there was any debate about RG having had sex with MK before she was murdered. Help me out here, is this wrong?
3. There is more than enough of RG's DNA in MK's room. Did I mention he confessed?
4. He typically broke a window, entered, stole money and laptops. Sounds pretty similar to me.

Jim

Neither Guede nor Sollecito raped the victim.

Guede had broken into a law office by climbing up to the balcony and entering through French doors. At the cottage, it would have been easy to climb up to the balcony and enter through the French doors, or the kitchen window. There was a break-in after the murder and the point of entry was: climb up to the balcony and enter through the kitchen window. Throwing a rock through a second story window and then scaling a shear wall to enter that window is not similar to anything that Guede did in the past.

Guede confessed that he was at the cottage at the time of the murder, but he still claims that he did not commit the murder. The laptop, sitting on the desk next to the broken window, was not stolen. Neither was the camera. Knox's laptop, on her desk, was not stolen. Meredith's €300 were stolen.

There is ample evidence of all three culprits at the murder scene - which is the entire main floor of the cottage, not Meredith's bedroom.

 

[SMK]

Neither Guede nor Sollecito raped the victim.

It was NOT confirmed that Guede raped (or had sex with) the victim? I really had thought that it was? Was she not a victim of rape as well as murder?

ETA: Found this; did not realize she likely was not raped:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1578560/Meredith-Kercher-may-not-have-been-raped.html

 

[Amber29]

1. PL lied (on the stand i believe) about firing amanda. is that ok? AK did not leave PL behind bars. that police couldn't be bothered to investigate him as a suspect before arresting him is not on knox, neither is the fact it look police so long to clear him. amanda recanted that accusation shortly after. the fact PL remained in jail for two weeks (it took police that long to clear him?) is on the police as well.
2. RG's dna was found INSIDE meredith. what exactly do you think this means?
3. compared to knox and raff, YES, his dna was all over including inside MK. amanda lived in the cottage... finding her dna outside MK's room is not suspect. the footprint is more compatible with RG. please explain the other 3-4 dna profiles found on the clasp...
4. you want evidence to prove RG scaled the wall/was in that bedroom but the fact nothing puts amanda in MK's bedroom is meaningless? quite the double standard imo.

1.Nope I don't think PL lied on the stand and amanda didn't recant, please recanting would've been saying out loud over and over that you lied! She and her mother did nothing to help PL.
2.answered this in another post,
3. We will agree to disagree on the DNA evidence.
4. The double standard is saying lack of Amanda's DNA in Meredith's room means she wasn't there. So why can't it be used to say RG wasn't in Filomenas room. Especially when you consider the mixed sample of Amanda and Meredith in Filomenas room. That sample is just another piece that people have to explain away to see them as innocent.

 

[sherlockh]

Some random thoughts...

If I believed they are all guilty, I still would not think the knife is a likely murder weapon. It seems so ridiculous that they would take it back to RS's instead of dumping it somewhere. I probably have buried it in some random place and bought a new one.

*Snipped*. Why not reason the other way around? Meredith's DNA on the knife proves that the knife was at the cottage and most likely involved in the murder. Of course, this is ridiculous. The whole murder is ridiculous. I don't understand this kind of reasoning where evidence is simply dismissed because somebody else would have done things differently. JMO.

 

[sherlockh]

i find it odd that both meredith and rudy were seen on cctv near the cottage the evening of the murder but there are no reports of seeing the accused on cctv that same night... things that make you go hmmm...

It was proven that the CCTV was 10 minutes fast by a check with the internet time. You can't get any more accurate than that. This excludes the possibility that Meredith was on the CCTV images. This was mostly likely Knox arriving at the cottage IMO. I don't think the guy walking in the parking garage was Guede. He looks very different. There are other images showing only someone's shoes crossing the street. I think this could have been Guede looking around for the guys downstairs as he said himself, but you can't definitely state that it was him just based on shoes.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Mauro_Barbadonri's_Testimony_(English)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tH-klo4nGQ