Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#8

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Do you really believe this? If so, then they are insane. What satisfaction could they get in "pretending" Knox is guilty, and fooling the world through deceptive trickery?

If they believed it was a hickey, but photoshopped it to deceive the public - that is ludicrous. I hope you're wrong. It is not only unethical, but insane. And it would mean they believe Knox is likely innocent, but are framing her. To what end??? Here it is in B and W:

I've seen examples of outright manipulation and trickery both from deeply invested and busy pro-guilt activists (manipulating photographs in photoshop, deceptive charts etc) and from the Perugian police ( the harry potter book lie, the lie about missing clothing etc)
Perugian authorities had clear motive that I wrote about already some time ago. As for the pro-prosecution activists, well, I guess it can be explained psychologically.
 
Recent court decisions in the US have a lot of people questioning what US justice is all about. It doesn't seem to be based on what is right or wrong, but rather on whether a lawyer can skew perceptions such that a guilty person appears innocent. Yesterday, a 16 year old drunk driver that killed four people was given probation because he's a rich kid who didn't learn that there were consequences for breaking the law. The courts confirmed his belief and did not impose consequences for killing four people. A woman that shoved her husband off a cliff and tried to cover up her crime was allowed to plea to a lesser charge for no obvious reason. A woman that murdered her child was found not guilty because the jury didn't see how the murder occurred. I see the same approach with this case. That is, every legal trick and skewing of perceptions is presented in order to paint Knox and Sollecito as not guilty. At the same time, common sense tells me that innocent people don't need each piece of evidence to be reviewed in isolation, they don't need PR Firms, they don't need to undermine the science of DNA, and they don't need to aggressively attack every individual that had a role in the persuit of justice. Yet, that is all we have seen from the defense for Knox/Sollecito.

OT and BBM

This wreck happened in my town and i have been following this case since it happened in June about 2mins from my house. It's actually why I haven't been around much last couple days. This is a total travesty of justice and I've been so upset about it.
 
I don't view it as a minor role: I view it as being the one who set the whole thing in motion. And legally, a felony and accessory to homicide.

And Raffaele equally set it in motion along with Amanda? Because otherwise he really took on a lot of punishment for her. I know you'll say that 2 people can egg each other on to do something neither would do alone, but really, there's nothing connecting Raffaele to Meredith but Amanda - he could have easily accused her of considering doing what you said and denied any participation of his own, or knowledge that it actually happened until after the murder was discovered.
 
There is a picture of it.

It's a hickey IN YOUR OPINION.

That is not a fact.

Amanda testified it's a hickey. The prosecution didn't present the post arrest medical examination report to contradict it. I take it as a proof.
 
Do you really believe this? If so, then they are acting insanely and irresponsibly. What satisfaction could they get in "pretending" Knox is guilty, and fooling the world through deceptive trickery?

If they believed it was a hickey, but photoshopped it to deceive the public - that is ludicrous. I hope you're wrong. It is not only unethical, but makes no sense. And it would mean they believe Knox is likely innocent, but are framing her. To what end??? Here it is in B and W:
(ETA: Or do you mean that are such Javert-like zealots that in their passionate belief she is guilty, are "helping it along", as the cop who "knows" the suspect did it, will feel justified in planting his fingerprints?)

Yes because anything that can be viewed negative against amanda has an explanation. So if we think it looks like something other than a hickey, then the photo had to be doctored to appear that way.

The fact is amanda bled in that bathroom and it had to have a source.
 
Amanda testified it's a hickey. The prosecution didn't present the post arrest medical examination report to contradict it. I take it as a proof.

Laura said it didn't appear to be a hickey. So actually it's not fact.

Again defendants aren't the best source.
 
Yes because anything that can be viewed negative against amanda has an explanation. So if we think it looks like something other than a hickey, then the photo had to be doctored to appear that way.

The fact is amanda bled in that bathroom and it had to have a source.

But Amanda could have bled in the bathroom at some other time than during/after the murder. Even if that is not a hickey as it appears to me, it's not a break in the skin that would have dripped blood anywhere.
 
I've seen examples of outright manipulation and trickery both from deeply invested and busy pro-guilt activists (manipulating photographs in photoshop, deceptive charts etc) and from the Perugian police ( the harry potter book lie, the lie about missing clothing etc)
Perugian authorities had clear motive that I wrote about already some time ago. As for the pro-prosecution activists, well, I guess it can be explained psychologically.
It's possible. It is a misfortune that anyone would be so invested psychologically as to feel the need to resort to exaggeration and manipulation, but I have certainly seen examples of this within the political and academic spheres.
 
Especially clear in B&W is the fact that it is lighter than the moles/freckles on her skin and appears to be beneath the surface of one of the spots. Also, something I tried to post earlier didn't show up:

I don't see any scabbing here from where blood would have dropped, and there are apparently no other cuts or scratches on Amanda that could have dropped blood, which indicates to me that traces of Amanda's blood found in the cottage are from well before the murder took place and irrelevant to the murder case.

As I understand it, Meredith was menstruating, so finding her blood in the bidet next to her bedroom is not surprising and does not in itself indicate anyone was washing their feet in the bidet. Finding Amanda's dna in the bidet is also not indicative of much except that she might have used it at some point.
I see, yes. And yes, the menstrual blood thing had crossed my mind.

The evidence becomes shaky with the constant onslaught of empirical refutations revealing the dubious nature.
 
IMO the way it worked was like this:

When LE first investigated the murder they decided that there was not a break-in in their opinion, therefore it had to be an "inside job"

AK was the only one potentially at home at the time, so in their minds it had to involve AK.

The text AK sent to PL saying "see you soon" was taken literally by LE as meaning that she would meet him shortly, rather than the American meaning (as AK would have definitely meant) which is a form of "goodbye till I see you again".

This formed in their mind the theory that AK met up with PL that night and went over to kill MK, and they set about collecting evidence that would show that.

The problem with the theory is that RS said he was with AK, that had to be resolved.

This they set about by using interrogation to extract a confession. According to Italian law a suspect has to be provided a lawyer and the interview has to be recorded. This would prevent them from using coercion to extract a confession (which is why the law is that way in the first place). However, if they interviewed RS and AK as "witnesses", they would have no such protection and LE could do as they pleased, effectively skirting the law. I suspect that this is standard practice with local LE in Perugia. At the end of the day when the suspect complains, they would say they did everything "by the book" and back each other up so it is the word of the many against the word of the one, since there are no lawyers or recordings to contradict them. Nice little racket they have going there, and it is blatantly obvious that is what is going on.

So, to get statements reinforcing their theory they first extract a statement from RS through intimidation and threats that AK left that night, then they do the same with AK implicating AK and PL. Case solved. Or is it?

But not quite. Firstly, PL has a rock solid alibi, and secondly, forensic evidence points at RG as the killer. So what to do now? The can't go with their original theory that AK left RS and hooked up with RG to go an kill MK, because AK barely knew RG and it would be absurd to suggest that she left her new boyfriend to hook up with a near stranger to go and assault her room mate. So, to get around that they decided to get RS implicated. This is pretty much the ONLY reason he was charged with the crime. Then they come up with all these weird and lurid theories about what happened as motive, for a crime that otherwise would be pointless and for no reason.

This is the how they came up with their theory of events. After that, their evidence gathering has been focussed on supporting that theory, and ignoring or downplaying anything which might not support it. So, if they find something that hints at supporting the theory, it assumes massive importance, but anything that hints against it is irrelevant and incidental.

This is the big problem with their investigation, it is flawed to the core and has no semblance of objectivity whatsoever. The correct method to do an investigation is to collect evidence and let the evidence as a whole define the theory, not the other way around.

Getting on to these "confessions" and "statements". People here seem to believe there is no way an innocent person would say anything like that. Let me tell you that is flat out false. They do all the time. I my younger days I came from a country that had conscription for military service, and I did my time in the military intelligence corp for two years. Interrogators are very skilled at extracting statements from people, sometimes they use the old "hook up to a car battery" method, or more usually they use prolonged exposure to stress, fear, intimidation and verbal abuse, but eventually almost EVERYONE breaks and tells the interrogator something. If you have never experienced that sort of thing in an unregulated environment you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

The problem for the analyst who afterwards has to evaluate that information extracted by the interrogator is that the analyst knows that people will say anything eventually to stop the interrogation, so is it true or just made up? Is the information a diamond or a lump of coal? To figure that out what you do is take the information and look for corroborating information that the interrogator was not aware of. If that corroboration substantially matches the statement you know it is likely true, it doesn't then it is likely false.

Now, in this case the information that came from both RS and AK is clearly false since it fails the corroboration tests. If AK really did kill MK then she would have implicated RG, not PL. PL was implicated because that is what the interrogator WANTED to happened, and it means AK probably knows nothing about what happened. The original prosecutor would have been the equivalent of the analyst in an intelligence gathering organization, but he appears to have completely failed in that function. Actionable intelligence absolutely depends on unbiased critical analysts doing their job properly, or you end up in a huge mess.

Likewise with RG. During his original trial he made no mention of AK even though she was under arrest for the same crime at the time. What would be the point of that? It would have made far more sense to have laid the blame at her feet right from the start, since it was proven he was there. But he only did that much later, apparently as a deal to LE to get his own sentence reduced.

I am sorry folks, but this whole case stinks of unprofessional LE tactics throughout. It is clearly an attempt to railroad a conviction by people who are basically incompetent.
 
What date was it that Laura noticed it? Oh, well, guess it does not matter. I had thought she was suspected almost immediately, but I guess not.

Knox was not a suspect until she voluntarily went to the police station late on November 5, 2007, and reported that Patrick murdered Meredith while she was at the cottage.
 
IMO the way it worked was like this:

When LE first investigated the murder they decided that there was not a break-in in their opinion, therefore it had to be an "inside job"

AK was the only one potentially at home at the time, so in their minds it had to involve AK.

The text AK sent to PL saying "see you soon" was taken literally by LE as meaning that she would meet him shortly, rather than the American meaning (as AK would have definitely meant) which is a form of "goodbye till I see you again".

This formed in their mind the theory that AK met up with PL that night and went over to kill MK, and they set about collecting evidence that would show that.

The problem with the theory is that RS said he was with AK, that had to be resolved.

This they set about by using interrogation to extract a confession. According to Italian law a suspect has to be provided a lawyer and the interview has to be recorded. This would prevent them from using coercion to extract a confession (which is why the law is that way in the first place). However, if they interviewed RS and AK as "witnesses", they would have no such protection and LE could do as they pleased, effectively skirting the law. I suspect that this is standard practice with local LE in Perugia. At the end of the day when the suspect complains, they would say they did everything "by the book" and back each other up so it is the word of the many against the word of the one, since there are no lawyers or recordings to contradict them. Nice little racket they have going there, and it is blatantly obvious that is what is going on.

So, to get statements reinforcing their theory they first extract a statement from RS through intimidation and threats that AK left that night, then they do the same with AK implicating AK and PL. Case solved. Or is it?

But not quite. Firstly, PL has a rock solid alibi, and secondly, forensic evidence points at RG as the killer. So what to do now? The can't go with their original theory that AK left RS and hooked up with RG to go an kill MK, because AK barely knew RG and it would be absurd to suggest that she left her new boyfriend to hook up with a near stranger to go and assault her room mate. So, to get around that they decided to get RS implicated. This is pretty much the ONLY reason he was charged with the crime. Then they come up with all these weird and lurid theories about what happened as motive, for a crime that otherwise would be pointless and for no reason.

This is the how they came up with their theory of events. After that, their evidence gathering has been focussed on supporting that theory, and ignoring or downplaying anything which might not support it. So, if they find something that hints at supporting the theory, it assumes massive importance, but anything that hints against it is irrelevant and incidental.

This is the big problem with their investigation, it is flawed to the core and has no semblance of objectivity whatsoever. The correct method to do an investigation is to collect evidence and let the evidence as a whole define the theory, not the other way around.

Getting on to these "confessions" and "statements". People here seem to believe there is no way an innocent person would say anything like that. Let me tell you that is flat out false. They do all the time. I my younger days I came from a country that had conscription for military service, and I did my time in the military intelligence corp for two years. Interrogators are very skilled at extracting statements from people, sometimes they use the old "hook up to a car battery" method, or more usually they use prolonged exposure to stress, fear, intimidation and verbal abuse, but eventually almost EVERYONE breaks and tells the interrogator something. If you have never experienced that sort of thing in an unregulated environment you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

The problem for the analyst who afterwards has to evaluate that information extracted by the interrogator is that the analyst knows that people will say anything eventually to stop the interrogation, so is it true or just made up? Is the information a diamond or a lump of coal? To figure that out what you do is take the information and look for corroborating information that the interrogator was not aware of. If that corroboration substantially matches the statement you know it is likely true, it doesn't then it is likely false.

Now, in this case the information that came from both RS and AK is clearly false since it fails the corroboration tests. If AK really did kill MK then she would have implicated RG, not PL. PL was implicated because that is what the interrogator WANTED to happened, and it means AK probably knows nothing about what happened. The original prosecutor would have been the equivalent of the analyst in an intelligence gathering organization, but he appears to have completely failed in that function. Actionable intelligence absolutely depends on unbiased critical analysts doing their job properly, or you end up in a huge mess.

Likewise with RG. During his original trial he made no mention of AK even though she was under arrest for the same crime at the time. What would be the point of that? It would have made far more sense to have laid the blame at her feet right from the start, since it was proven he was there. But he only did that much later, apparently as a deal to LE to get his own sentence reduced.

I am sorry folks, but this whole case stinks of unprofessional LE tactics throughout. It is clearly an attempt to railroad a conviction by people who are basically incompetent.
Well, these thoughts - which you state so well, btw - are ones which I and many others have also had to varying degrees.

I hope I don't wind up arriving back at this again - I will feel a fool and have wasted my time.

If the scenario you state is true - and some are certain it is - then it would warrant major litigation for wrongful arrest/ imprisonment/defamation/libel. I'm trying not to go there, yet ........
 
I think the police did notice it. There was a police photo of it from the post arrest medical exam circulating on the web. I'm sure the pro-guilt sites have it.

It was a hickey.

The abrasion was still visible five days later on November 6? It is an abrasion. Knox has not explained the cause of that abrasion.
 
And Raffaele equally set it in motion along with Amanda? Because otherwise he really took on a lot of punishment for her. I know you'll say that 2 people can egg each other on to do something neither would do alone, but really, there's nothing connecting Raffaele to Meredith but Amanda - he could have easily accused her of considering doing what you said and denied any participation of his own, or knowledge that it actually happened until after the murder was discovered.
Not a bad point.
 
I think it's the full view thing which bothers me , as well. In the case of Noura Jackson (teen who knifed her mother in the US) police were suspicious as on the night of the murder when they questioned her, she was wearing long sleeves on a very hot summer night. They asked to see her arms and she had very significant injuries. Receipts for hydrogen peroxide, iodine and bandaids from the night of the murder were found. In other words, it was very clear, unlike this Knox neck thing....

Who were the two accomplices that participated in the murder ... or did Noura act alone?
 
Thanks for finding that! The abrasion was there on November 2. Do you know when the photo was taken?
I am not sure, but I imagine it was on the day of her arrest.
 
Laura said it didn't appear to be a hickey. So actually it's not fact.

Doesn't it surprise you that Laura's opinion is presented instead of the medical examiner's who took the photo?

I think it's meaningful and it confirms Amanda's words.
 
Doesn't it surprise you that Laura's opinion is presented instead of the medical examiner's who took the photo?

I think it's meaningful and it confirms Amanda's words.
What did the M.E. say about the wound?
 
Knox was not a suspect until she voluntarily went to the police station late on November 5, 2007, and reported that Patrick murdered Meredith while she was at the cottage.

Not true. According to Giobbi's words Amanda was a suspect from the start, as a matter of fact even if not officially.
It's confirmed by the fact that her phone was wiretapped immediately, her phone calls recorded, even her conversations at the police station were recorded and listened to.
Giobbi confirms she was a suspect already when he ordered her and Raffaele to be interrogated on the night of 5th November.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
224
Guests online
1,516
Total visitors
1,740

Forum statistics

Threads
599,783
Messages
18,099,529
Members
230,923
Latest member
Artem1
Back
Top