Another Sawgrass

[tweety933]

Casey's phone pings on June 25 put her in Tony's apartment from 12:40 a.m. until midnight. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-6-25&c=4

Casey's phone pings on July 5 and interviews with witnesses have KC either in the company of Amy, William W. or Tony. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-7-5&c=4

What information is available showing Casey in the vicinity of or even with the opportunity for a visit to the "other" Sawgrass on either June 25 or July 5?

The physical evidence from KC's Pontiac trunk was locked up on June 27 and towed away & secured on June 30.

I'd like to mention that my cell phone pings wherever it is, whether I'm with it or not, so where it is pinging from doesn't prove that I was with the phone. Also, I let other people use my phone at times and not every call that is on my cell phone bill, originated from ME, but my cell phone,....thereby me and my cell phone are NOT the same thing. I'm not saying this is what happened when analyzing the pings, but it is a reasonable alternative to how it could be explained.

 

[Brini]

That is only your opinion. Sam Shepard was arrested for a murder he didn't commit because of his proximity and relationship to the victim. I believe that is what Linda Baden was describing about Casey. It also may be that her team has disproved the forensics - we have no way of knowing what her team uncovered until the trial.

This is just my opinion, but I would rather have complete data and make a well reasoned judgement with that data than be quick to judge based on the information of one side only, in any situation. I know what the prosecutions case looks like, but we know almost zero about the defense case other than the few tidbits they have given us. It has been my experience in following true crime cases that there can be surprises and things are not always what they seem.

That's fine.

But, actually it's NOT just my opinion. A number of criminologists have stated that with our modern technology, Sheppard would never have been arrested.

 

[Brini]

I'd like to mention that my cell phone pings wherever it is, whether I'm with it or not, so where it is pinging from doesn't prove that I was with the phone. Also, I let other people use my phone at times and not every call that is on my cell phone bill, originated from ME, but my cell phone,....thereby me and my cell phone are NOT the same thing. I'm not saying this is what happened when analyzing the pings, but it is a reasonable alternative to how it could be explained.

But, we'd still need some evidence that she was there, other than "maybe she was." And, what would be the purpose? What does it have to do with the crime?

And, given KC's prolific texting and cell phoning (you've seen her bills) combined with no record of anyone else having used her phone on her bills, it's hard to believe that she lent it out.

 

[Brini]

I just reread nyitaliano chat with KC. She does mention ZFG sister getting married the following weekend. Do the dates coincide?

No ZFG, sister Sam, mother or aunt was ever foound by LE, or anyone else. These folks don't exist, honey.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I'd like to mention that my cell phone pings wherever it is, whether I'm with it or not, so where it is pinging from doesn't prove that I was with the phone. Also, I let other people use my phone at times and not every call that is on my cell phone bill, originated from ME, but my cell phone,....thereby me and my cell phone are NOT the same thing. I'm not saying this is what happened when analyzing the pings, but it is a reasonable alternative to how it could be explained.

Ya know whats funny ?? For myself, probably you and sooo many other "ordinary" cell phone users that could be the case. The operative word being "ordinary"....LOL
If KC wasn't flappin her gums on the phone, she was gettin smoking thumbs from all the texts she sent !!! LOL:crazy:

 

[Brini]

Ya know whats funny ?? For myself, probably you and sooo many other "ordinary" cell phone users that could be the case. The operative word being "ordinary"....LOL If KC wasn't flappin her gums on the phone, she was gettin smoking thumbs from all the texts she sent !!! LOL:crazy:

Yeah, even LE was astonished! They couldn't believe anyone could talk and text that much, at the same time.

They were mentioning excellent manual dexterity.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

That is only your opinion. Sam Shepard was arrested for a murder he didn't commit because of his proximity and relationship to the victim. I believe that is what Linda Baden was describing about Casey. It also may be that her team has disproved the forensics - we have no way of knowing what her team uncovered until the trial.

This is just my opinion, but I would rather have complete data and make a well reasoned judgement with that data than be quick to judge based on the information of one side only, in any situation. I know what the prosecutions case looks like, but we know almost zero about the defense case other than the few tidbits they have given us. It has been my experience in following true crime cases that there can be surprises and things are not always what they seem.

As far as Sam Shepard goes...way back in the 50's when LE were "coppers" and there were "gum shoes" "flat foots", etc, they didn't have much of anything else to go by except the "proximity". Even today...the husband/wife/father/mother are the first suspects...sadly, all too often, it IS one of those who ARE responsible. BUT, also....back then, investigations and methods of evidence collection were archaic...."latent prints"??? HA !!! Most arrests WERE based on what was considered the "obvious", although some were incorrect....some were right. I don't think that many of the investigators at that time were as "complex" or perhaps "industrious" to look past "the obvious". We're beyond light years ahead of those days now. So, LKB's "proximity" theory kinda gets blown out the window....IMO

As far as JB and the Defense "information"....you mean their attempts at throwing anyone under the bus to create "reasonable doubt" ??
What we get in the document dumps is investigative info....facts and results from LE's investigation. Sure, the "junk scientists" (LOL) for the Defense are going to try to refute the data accumulated from reputable sourses, like the FBI, etc....that's why they're getting paid.
The Defense, IMO, doesn't HAVE a "case", so to speak. Again...IF they had "real" info....FACTS from THEIR investigation that would exhonerate their client, I'm MORE than sure ALL involved would love to imprison the supposed "real killer" of this defenseless baby girl.

 

[Brini]

As far as Sam Shepard goes...way back in the 50's when LE were "coppers" and there were "gum shoes" "flat foots", etc, they didn't have much of anything else to go by except the "proximity". Even today...the husband/wife/father/mother are the first suspects...sadly, all too often, it IS one of those who ARE responsible. BUT, also....back then, investigations and methods of evidence collection were archaic...."latent prints"??? HA !!! Most arrests WERE based on what was considered the "obvious", although some were incorrect....some were right. I don't think that many of the investigators at that time were as "complex" or perhaps "industrious" to look past "the obvious". We're beyond light years ahead of those days now. So, LKB's "proximity" theory kinda gets blown out the window....IMO

As far as JB and the Defense "information"....you mean their attempts at throwing anyone under the bus to create "reasonable doubt" ??
What we get in the document dumps is investigative info....facts and results from LE's investigation. Sure, the "junk scientists" (LOL) for the Defense are going to try to refute the data accumulated from reputable sourses, like the FBI, etc....that's why they're getting paid.
The Defense, IMO, doesn't HAVE a "case", so to speak. Again...IF they had "real" info....FACTS from THEIR investigation that would exhonerate their client, I'm MORE than sure ALL involved would love to imprison the supposed "real killer" of this defenseless baby girl.

And, paternity assignment went by BLOOD TYPE!

That's all they had, back then.

 

[Balthazar]

That's fine.

But, actually it's NOT just my opinion. A number of criminologists have stated that with our modern technology, Sheppard would never have been arrested.

Except, what you are stating may not fit what Linda Kenny Baden said.

Either she meant:
.
1. The DNA evidence in this case does not prove Casey is guilty.
or
2. Casey has been arrested for this crime due to her relationship and proximity to the victim.
or
3. Both.

We will only know the answer as to what Linday Kenny Baden meant when this case goes to trial.

 

[milliac]

No ZFG, sister Sam, mother or aunt was ever foound by LE, or anyone else. These folks don't exist, honey.

I did a little further research and that chat with AR was on May 6, 2008. So the June 2nd date doesn't jive. Here is a link to the official doc.

http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0926/17567142.pdf

 

[marspiter]

Ya know whats funny ?? For myself, probably you and sooo many other "ordinary" cell phone users that could be the case. The operative word being "ordinary"....LOL
If KC wasn't flappin her gums on the phone, she was gettin smoking thumbs from all the texts she sent !!! LOL:crazy:

My little brother-in-law is kind of like Casey on the phone. He has about 8,000 to 10,000 texts a month not to mention the actual calls. His phone is as a natural part of him as socks or underwear. He can actually text with his phone in his pocket and not pull it out, all he does is glance to see what was written to him. (A skill he has acquired while texting in school when his phone is not permitted by the teachers) He would never be more then 50ft from his phone (If he was there would be total panic on his part to find it) and I suspect Casey is very much the same. For most teenagers and early 20 somethings this seems to be the pattern.

 

[MissJames]

No one tried harder to turn the attention away from KC than CA.Even she said that Zanny probably stood for whoever was watching Caylee at the time.They tried to implicate Jessie and Amy. At the depo CA said they had PI's watching a ZFG in Puerto Rico.
But not even the A's have suggested that another Sawgrass was involved,nor have they brought up these other names [I refuse to name these innocent people].
JB has not asked to subpeona any phone records or any other information on these people.He has not made any motions to get info about this other Sawgrass.
I must conclude it's because they all know there is no connection.None.
They simply have the misfortune of having names similar to the ones KC used when she told more "stories".
Juliet Lewis is an actress .Anyone checking her out? Maybe she can back KC's stories up,since they were co-workers and close friends.

 

[marspiter]

Except, what you are stating may not fit what Linda Kenny Baden said.

Either she meant:
.
1. The DNA evidence in this case does not prove Casey is guilty.
or
2. Casey has been arrested for this crime due to her relationship and proximity to the victim.
or
3. Both.

We will only know the answer as to what Linday Kenny Baden meant when this case goes to trial.

Just a quick question. I've heard the defense spout how they have evidence to exonerate Casey and that she is innocent.

My question is if they had evidence that would exonerate....why on earth would Casey sit in prison all this time and keep said evidence a big secret. What purpose would some shocking movie like moment in trial have.

The only purpose I could even begin to come up with would be for publicity, or wasting tax payers dollars in hopes of a lucrative book/movie deal. (Which in today's economy would be a good call on the defenses part :crazy: )

In all seriousness if there was some evidence out there that completely exonerated Casey. I can say for certain it wouldn't be kept a secret. Casey and JB would have been shouting from the highest peaks.

I think LKB is using nothing more then smoke and mirrors, and playing on the adage of innocent until proven guilty. Not that Casey is actually innocent, but is deemed as such until proven otherwise in court. It just sounds better the way the defense words it....and seems more mysterious. OOoooooOOoo

That and lets face it the Sam Sheppard case is a pretty famous case about the innocent being proven guilty and the defense is just trying to (not taint), nudge ("nudge" yeah that's the ticket) the potential jury pool I think.

 

[kageykaren]

Except, what you are stating may not fit what Linda Kenny Baden said.

Either she meant:
.
1. The DNA evidence in this case does not prove Casey is guilty.
or
2. Casey has been arrested for this crime due to her relationship and proximity to the victim.
or
3. Both.

We will only know the answer as to what Linday Kenny Baden meant when this case goes to trial.

I find it enlightning and the positive out look that this could be anyone other than the one incarcerated warms my heart a tad because most loose their Pollyanna traits as these crimes unfold. It takes a bit of shutzpa to keep this form of open mind to the possible innocense of KC. I don't want to rain on anyones gut feelings. I personally keep in my mind when defense makes a comment, the time, place and circumstance promoting a defense comment. I believe LkB made this statement when she was newly intoduced to the case and was giving an across the board statement to the media to apease their questions concerning her placement on the team and her ideas not fact to the evidence. The events made around ones statements help to decipher the true context in which it was made. Keeping up with possible alterior motives of Cayleey's murder makes for good debating to reach for truth.

 

[Jolynna]

I'd like to mention that my cell phone pings wherever it is, whether I'm with it or not, so where it is pinging from doesn't prove that I was with the phone. Also, I let other people use my phone at times and not every call that is on my cell phone bill, originated from ME, but my cell phone,....thereby me and my cell phone are NOT the same thing. I'm not saying this is what happened when analyzing the pings, but it is a reasonable alternative to how it could be explained.

But if your phone pinged from a specific location and multiple witnesses also place you at that location, like Tony and his roommates or Amy, William W. & Tony on July 5 <no way KC wasn't with Tony on his 1st night home after his trip>, there's direct evidence backing up the circumstantial phone pings.

 

[Jolynna]

My little brother-in-law is kind of like Casey on the phone. He has about 8,000 to 10,000 texts a month not to mention the actual calls. His phone is as a natural part of him as socks or underwear. He can actually text with his phone in his pocket and not pull it out, all he does is glance to see what was written to him. (A skill he has acquired while texting in school when his phone is not permitted by the teachers) He would never be more then 50ft from his phone (If he was there would be total panic on his part to find it) and I suspect Casey is very much the same. For most teenagers and early 20 somethings this seems to be the pattern.

Seems to me, the prolific texting would be a skill you'd want to stay away from if you are planning to kill someone.

Between the texting and KC's neediness, which meant she was always "with" someone every time she was away from her parent's house, KC did everything but throw bread crumbs for LE to use to trail.

 

[Brini]

Except, what you are stating may not fit what Linda Kenny Baden said.

Either she meant:
.
1. The DNA evidence in this case does not prove Casey is guilty.
or
2. Casey has been arrested for this crime due to her relationship and proximity to the victim.
or
3. Both.

We will only know the answer as to what Linday Kenny Baden meant when this case goes to trial.

The DNA evidence that Caylee was dead in KC's trunk? Yeah.. it fits her like a GLOVE. No OJ pun intended.

Her relationship, the forensics, and her behavior. Yep!

 

[Brini]

Seems to me, the prolific texting would be a skill you'd want to stay away from if you are planning to kill someone.

Between the texting and KC's neediness, which meant she was always "with" someone every time she was away from her parent's house, KC did everything but throw bread crumbs for LE to use to trail.

Exactly!

If I was gonna go where I didn't want to be found, I'd leave the phone at home. Which she, apparently, never did.

 

[Brini]

Fact is, of JB had evidence that would exonerate KC completely, she'd been on the streets as I type.

BTW-- Of what significance would another Sawgrass be to the crime?

There's also a Bella Vida St. It looks like (pings) KC has not been there, either.

 

[marspiter]

Seems to me, the prolific texting would be a skill you'd want to stay away from if you are planning to kill someone.

Between the texting and KC's neediness, which meant she was always "with" someone every time she was away from her parent's house, KC did everything but throw bread crumbs for LE to use to trail.

You would think she'd leave it as I know I would, but for some... Like my little brother-in-law it verges almost to the point of addiction. They have to have that phone near by. That is there link to the world. There is a distinct mind set difference between a normal cell phone user and someone texting 10,000 plus texts a month. One: She didn't think anything about having her phone with her because it is such a part of her. Two: She didn't care even after thinking about it because....my god, what if someone was trying to text her. That or the third option is maybe she thought she could use it as some form of alibi? My little brother-in-law uses the first two excuses when we go to the movies.