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Baez DID accuse the police of shoddy work and he DID say that his people were having to do the investigation work that police failed to do in open court a couple of months back. He has never made any accusations against anyone else, but his team has said that:

1. Casey should never have been arrested in the first place.

2. Casey is innocent.

3. There is no case against Casey.

4. There is a reasonable explanation for everything that they will tell us in the courtroom.

5. Compared this case to the Sam Shepard case.

Caught this quoted when I was posted my 'no thanks' at the end of the thread and couldn't resist. Have you read my sig line? Baez says a lot of things. And here's a recent post by Tuba from another thread:

"This is certaily not a capital case, and if it were, they certainly would file it, if they had the evidence to," Baez said. "There is circumstantial evidence of a possible homicide, I'll give them that. But circumstantial evidence has not made them confident enough to charge her with any specific homicide or kidnapping, or any capital offense."

h[URL="http://www"]ttp://www.msn.com/id/25802988/wid/7468326[/URL]

I often think how foolish we are to, from a great height, assess the state of the inculpatory evidence. We are not in the custodial rooms with the physical evidence, we haven't seen or read the prosecution strategy nor are we privileged to study the evidence still being tested or even know the extent of it and yet we judge. How presumptuous.

A similar argument could be made in behalf of defense potential. We can share impressions but how dare we talk in absolutes?

So, if we're going to rely on Baez, I'll rely on what he says that's consistent with the evidence we've seen and that's what Tuba posted and what's in my sig line, among several other gems from him.
 
What are the odds that KC would use common names? Juliet Lewis? She's an actress!
It would be simple for LE OR JB to find out if these women knew each other and where they were around June.
JB has been looking at people close to the story [the A's,RK,JG,AH ]to throw under the bus.
We haven't seen any motions to get info on these two and they aren't on the defense witness list.
If LE went so far as to do a test on squirrel decomp I feel certain they have checked out the other Sawgrass and anyone close to what KC mentioned in her web of lies.
We need a doc dump.:)

And since he hasn't then I would say there isn't anythang to it. He sure doesn't need any more law suits against them. They already have ZFG/Morgan. If there was a connection then we would have heard about it via the Media.
 
chckmate22, you are a well liked and well respected poster and not just by me. So I do not mean any disrespect to you whatsoever with the following comments. I understand you're trying to help someone and trying to explore all avenues and that's the right thing to do.

That being said, is this some kind of super old post from before Caylee's remains were found? Some of it just isn't making sense to me with what we know today, like #4. I would hope and expect that this information was provided to LE at the time and even if it wasn't, I'm sure the team of experts they had looking for any leads to Caylee in the beginning already explored all of the information contained herein and found it, as is admitted by the poster, simply innocent people sharing similar common names.

Remember the wild goose chases and farfetched leads that LE tracked to their bitter dead end before they learned Caylee was deceased? I don't think we have any reason to assume anything credible wasn't followed up on; nor do we have any reason to believe that LE didn't come up with this information without tipsters.

Again, no offense intended, just my opinion that I'll be passing on this thread. But if I'm wrong, as often happens, please do pm me to let me know something really did come of the efforts. TIA

ITA ,Lin ,
Thanks
 
And since he hasn't then I would say there isn't anythang to it. He sure doesn't need any more law suits against them. They already have ZFG/Morgan. If there was a connection then we would have heard about it via the Media.
Hey MamaBear! Where have you been? :blowkiss:
Morgan would just love a round two ,wouldn't he?
 
Baez made the comment regarding the shoddy police work at the hearing where he introduced Andrea Lyon on May 28, 2009 - not quite 2 months ago. What makes you think he's discovered anything different since then? It is also clear that Baez is not going to leak the defense case. This is something he's actually done very well despite his inexperience with high profile cases. So, I guess we will just have to wait for the trial to find out what his investigators discovered, if anything. While it's possible that the defense comments are posturing, it is equally possible that there is truth to them. So, I would say I neither believe nor disbelieve Baez. I am simply observing without bias or making assumptions.
For those of us who are not LE, we have to go by our basic "gut" feeling on Baez and his legal actions. There are many knowlegeable LE representatives on WS and I'm comfortable taking they're word on legal matters concerning Baez and his actions. Having said that, between my gut feeling and what I've learned from others on WS, Baez has not handled this case (at least to this point) in a professional and respectful manner. His behavior is an invitation for criticism by his peers.
Maybe if he was a more experienced attorney he could get away with some of his "posturing".
(sorry-OT)
 
This was posted by another member. I am trying to help her find the right thread to put it under so any help would be great. Please read with an open mind!!!

Samantha G nee O & Jennifer R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What if....there really is a Samantha G & Jennifer R? Could Jennifer and Zeniada both now be related to Jesus O and possibly thereby both related to Caylee by marriage?

I recently decided to do some searching for the "missing" players just to see what I could come up with. It proved to be rather interesting, IMO. While searching through the Orlando public records I found that:

1. A Samantha G married a Pedro Carlos O on June 2, 2008. This could be why LE have not been able to locate her. They are looking for G, not O.

2. There are 2 different Jennifer R with traffic violations. Both in the right age range DOB 1982 & 1986. 1 just got a traffic ticket, the other got a ticket & violated probation concurrently.

3. I did a phone look up for addresses on these two ladies and found address listed for both names (Samantha O & Jennifer R). Strangely enough they BOTH have Casey's same zip code. This is not because they are all from Orlando as other people in the public records have various different zip codes listed. AnyWho & Whitepages.com both list the same phone number and address for both of these women. I don't want to post it as it might be someone completely uninvolved in this case. I can however provide both if necessary.

4. When I did a ping map comparision of where these two women live or lived I was startled. They live within 2-3 miles of each other, just south of HWY 417 and immediately south of the airport. There is a ping map for June 25 2008 that has a yellow house sitting exactly on the spot where these 2 women live, yet it is not listed as to who's house it is. All others are accounted for, but not this one house. I believe that these properties are well within the ping maps we have been using. I remember that there were some searches done out near the airport. I wonder how close they were to these addresses.

5. When I did a property appraisal search on both properties they both appear to be rental properties. Each owned by someone other than Ortiz or Rosa and neither filed as Homestead Exemption. Both have been owned for 3-10 years also, so not a new sale.

6. Both properties are located just off of Sawgrass Plantation Rd.

I have been discussing these findings with another sluether here and she has encouraged me to come forward with these findings to see if any other sleuthers can help find information on these women. Before anyone starts ranting and raving about Casey's guilt and that I am just trying to help the defense by putting up doubt, let me just say this:
Do you just want to kill Casey or do you want to find justice for Caylee by helping catch her murderer? What if I'm right? Will you let a potential murderer or murderers go free because of preconcieved notions and/or ideas?
I think more like a scientist. Pick a theory and try to PROVE it until it is obvious it CAN'T be proven. So far, there is still room for doubt. You however, can make the difference. Prove that these two are not and could not possibly be the two people Casey is refering to and this road will be forever closed to the defense.
bolded by original poster

respectively totally disagree with everything you posted. If this was the only evidence to consider, I would consider, but the amount of evidence that points to KC is overwhelming.
 
There are a ton of other areas in and around Orlando that have some form of connection to the word Sawgrass:

The Sawgrass Marriott Golf and Resort
Sawgrass Townhome @ Stoneybrook
Sawgrass-Beazer Homes
Sawgrass Mills, Orlando
Sawgrass Point, Orlando
Sawgrass Village Orlando
Sawgrass Pointe Real Estate
Sawgrass Bay, Orlando

and on and on...
And, I'd say there are probably many O's living there. The difference is KC didn't give LE an address for ZG any where but the Sawgrass she took them to!
MHO
 
I found anotherthread that mentions this particular area and some "pings" in that area. Here is some quotes from that thread started 10-17-2008.
10-17-2008, 12:03 PM
tasylshari



Sorry if this has already been answered in a previous thread or post, but does anyone know if KC's cell pinged by Boggy Creek Road at the end of June? Apparently there are two seperate witnesses who claim to have seen what appeared to be Casey and the white Pontiac there. If she pinged out there around the end of June.....?????? THANKS!

10-17-2008, 12:23 PM
TexasLil
Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 773

Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia PI
So far the only ping is located at the main terminal at the Orlando Airport, nothing south west of that yet.

The closest ping I see is July 5th at this location:

28.4372222 N 81.365 W

Check June 9th 3:00 PM

We are finding evidence that Casey was in this general vacintity during the time that Caylee was unaccounted for.

ALso, part of the reason I wanted to look into this further was due to the Adam Walsh case. I recently re-read John Walsh's book "Tears of Rage". In it he talks about:
1. How both he and his wife, Reve' , were considered suspects for years.
2. How his wife was considered a suspect due to her mis-truths to LE & FBI. She stated to them that there were no problems within her and John's marriage. Turned out to be a lie due to the fact that she had been carring on an affair with a close family friend.
3. The family friend was considered a suspect due to the affair. Motives being either jealousy because she wouldn't leave John, jealousy towards Adam, or to get Adam out of the way for thier relationship. None of these were true.
4. Mrs Walsh considered a suspect due to the fact that she had the bad taste to wear a work-out outfit to the mall on the day Adam was kidnapped.(Reminds me of how Casey is being adjudicated guilty by some due to her manner of dress.)
5. John Walsh considered a suspect due to his connections to potential Mobsters or his high paying job as Hotelier.
6. Witness were still comming forward 10 YEARS AFTER ADAM'S KIDNAPPING. Real witnesses who should have come forward on day one but waited because they thought that surely someone else had already given that info to LE. This went on for a decade. Witnesses who slowly came forward with descriptions of Adam's abductor, the vehicle he was forced into, ect.

The ONLY reason that Adam's case even came close to being resolved was due to John Walsh's diligence and had nothing to do with LE and thier handling of the case.

Please do not automatically assume that LE has all the answers. They have many I am sure, but they are also human just like us and are imperfect as well. I believe in LE, I believe that they do all they can to uphold justice and the law. I just don't happen to believe that they are incapable of making a mistake or oversight. I also do believe in the due process of the law and that justice will prevail in this case. I just don't see the harm in looking into a few areas of interest.

I also looked into the JBR case and I found in it all about the process by which a Grand Jury decides to prosecute a suspect. In the legal documents signed by the SA they have to state that there are NO POSSIBLE OTHER LEADS in order to convene a Grand Jury to seek prosecution. If there are other leads they can keep quiet about them and pretend they don't exist...as long as they aren't found out about later and proven that the SA knew about them in advance. I've mentioned before that I'm going to do an analysis of cases that have been over turned, due to various criteria as a representation of how LE isn't infallable.
 
I just reread nyitaliano chat with KC. She does mention ZFG sister getting married the following weekend. Do the dates coincide?
 
I found anotherthread that mentions this particular area and some "pings" in that area. Here is some quotes from that thread started 10-17-2008.

Lots of information here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2748498&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Caylee Case Calendar and Linear Timeline[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=233"]Anthony Case Resource Links, Case Calendar and Time Line Analysis Forum - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
I just reread nyitaliano chat with KC. She does mention ZFG sister getting married the following weekend. Do the dates coincide?

Do you have a link to the chat? Thank you.
 
For now I can direct you to post 317 page 13 on the Evidence thread. (sorry can't cut and paste on iPod).

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3988996&postcount=317"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Evidence[/ame]
 
I found anotherthread that mentions this particular area and some "pings" in that area. Here is some quotes from that thread started 10-17-2008.


We are finding evidence that Casey was in this general vacintity during the time that Caylee was unaccounted for.

ALso, part of the reason I wanted to look into this further was due to the Adam Walsh case. I recently re-read John Walsh's book "Tears of Rage". In it he talks about:
1. How both he and his wife, Reve' , were considered suspects for years.
2. How his wife was considered a suspect due to her mis-truths to LE & FBI. She stated to them that there were no problems within her and John's marriage. Turned out to be a lie due to the fact that she had been carring on an affair with a close family friend.
3. The family friend was considered a suspect due to the affair. Motives being either jealousy because she wouldn't leave John, jealousy towards Adam, or to get Adam out of the way for thier relationship. None of these were true.
4. Mrs Walsh considered a suspect due to the fact that she had the bad taste to wear a work-out outfit to the mall on the day Adam was kidnapped.(Reminds me of how Casey is being adjudicated guilty by some due to her manner of dress.)
5. John Walsh considered a suspect due to his connections to potential Mobsters or his high paying job as Hotelier.
6. Witness were still comming forward 10 YEARS AFTER ADAM'S KIDNAPPING. Real witnesses who should have come forward on day one but waited because they thought that surely someone else had already given that info to LE. This went on for a decade. Witnesses who slowly came forward with descriptions of Adam's abductor, the vehicle he was forced into, ect.

The ONLY reason that Adam's case even came close to being resolved was due to John Walsh's diligence and had nothing to do with LE and thier handling of the case.

Please do not automatically assume that LE has all the answers. They have many I am sure, but they are also human just like us and are imperfect as well. I believe in LE, I believe that they do all they can to uphold justice and the law. I just don't happen to believe that they are incapable of making a mistake or oversight. I also do believe in the due process of the law and that justice will prevail in this case. I just don't see the harm in looking into a few areas of interest.

I also looked into the JBR case and I found in it all about the process by which a Grand Jury decides to prosecute a suspect. In the legal documents signed by the SA they have to state that there are NO POSSIBLE OTHER LEADS in order to convene a Grand Jury to seek prosecution. If there are other leads they can keep quiet about them and pretend they don't exist...as long as they aren't found out about later and proven that the SA knew about them in advance. I've mentioned before that I'm going to do an analysis of cases that have been over turned, due to various criteria as a representation of how LE isn't infallable.


Hi, Hollys G-mom....I'm not trying to be rude OR confrontational, but I can ALMOST say with certainty, most of what you are saying and trying to research has already been done and the results are somewhere on this site. So it should make the majority of your investigation that much easier. There are some SUPER SERIOUS SLEUTHS on this site. From the beginning of this case, they have been plotting EVERY move of KC on any given day....AND anyone else who seemed suspicious or remotely attached to her. They did searches on ANYONE and EVERYONE imaginable....no matter what their name is, was or gonna be !!! LOL Where they live/lived...who lived there prior...even the house value !!!
I even paid for some searches on people and their records just because I was nosey and wanted to know.
Some of the posts you are copying are BEFORE Caylee was found....that was during the time EVERYONE was suspect on here. And almost EVERY possible scenario was discussed and thought out. Just because KC's story didn't add up, didn't mean that we believed she was the killer. No one could or wanted to believe a mother could be responsible for doing something like this to their child. We, too, believed there was "someone else" she was protecting or involved.
But, as most have come to see, KC's ONLY concern is for KC....and whether she has enough $$ in her account to buy Cheese Curls...LOL She WOULD NOT remain in jail IF there was someone else responsible for this horrific crime.....even PARTLY responsible.
If you go back to ALL the info on the days AND "pings" AND who she was with on those days....NOT just the "pings", almost all her time is accounted for....you may need to wade thru MANY interviews to get the dates/times/people...but, again, it's on here SOMEWHERE.
This is all IMO....and just tryin to save you some of the footwork and time to get the info you're looking for. Happy "sleuthing", Hollys G-mom.....welcome to WS, as well !!!
Also, you must remember...the info came out in "dribs and drabs".....a good deal of the "pings" were accounted for when people/places/things started to come together.
 
<Respectfully snipped>

She WOULD NOT remain in jail IF there was someone else responsible for this horrific crime.....even PARTLY responsible.

And after all the recent lengthy "possibility" threads, that's really all it boils down to for me.
 
Sam Sheppard was tried in 1954 and re-tried in 1966.

That's before we had DNA evidence.

There's no comparison.

If he had been arrested these days, with the current forensic science, he would not have been prosecuted.

That is only your opinion. Sam Shepard was arrested for a murder he didn't commit because of his proximity and relationship to the victim. I believe that is what Linda Baden was describing about Casey. It also may be that her team has disproved the forensics - we have no way of knowing what her team uncovered until the trial.

This is just my opinion, but I would rather have complete data and make a well reasoned judgement with that data than be quick to judge based on the information of one side only, in any situation. I know what the prosecutions case looks like, but we know almost zero about the defense case other than the few tidbits they have given us. It has been my experience in following true crime cases that there can be surprises and things are not always what they seem.
 
I found anotherthread that mentions this particular area and some "pings" in that area. Here is some quotes from that thread started 10-17-2008.


We are finding evidence that Casey was in this general vacintity during the time that Caylee was unaccounted for.
ALso, part of the reason I wanted to look into this further was due to the Adam Walsh case. I recently re-read John Walsh's book "Tears of Rage". In it he talks about:
1. How both he and his wife, Reve' , were considered suspects for years.
2. How his wife was considered a suspect due to her mis-truths to LE & FBI. She stated to them that there were no problems within her and John's marriage. Turned out to be a lie due to the fact that she had been carring on an affair with a close family friend.
3. The family friend was considered a suspect due to the affair. Motives being either jealousy because she wouldn't leave John, jealousy towards Adam, or to get Adam out of the way for thier relationship. None of these were true.
4. Mrs Walsh considered a suspect due to the fact that she had the bad taste to wear a work-out outfit to the mall on the day Adam was kidnapped.(Reminds me of how Casey is being adjudicated guilty by some due to her manner of dress.)
5. John Walsh considered a suspect due to his connections to potential Mobsters or his high paying job as Hotelier.
6. Witness were still comming forward 10 YEARS AFTER ADAM'S KIDNAPPING. Real witnesses who should have come forward on day one but waited because they thought that surely someone else had already given that info to LE. This went on for a decade. Witnesses who slowly came forward with descriptions of Adam's abductor, the vehicle he was forced into, ect.

The ONLY reason that Adam's case even came close to being resolved was due to John Walsh's diligence and had nothing to do with LE and thier handling of the case.

Please do not automatically assume that LE has all the answers. They have many I am sure, but they are also human just like us and are imperfect as well. I believe in LE, I believe that they do all they can to uphold justice and the law. I just don't happen to believe that they are incapable of making a mistake or oversight. I also do believe in the due process of the law and that justice will prevail in this case. I just don't see the harm in looking into a few areas of interest.

I also looked into the JBR case and I found in it all about the process by which a Grand Jury decides to prosecute a suspect. In the legal documents signed by the SA they have to state that there are NO POSSIBLE OTHER LEADS in order to convene a Grand Jury to seek prosecution. If there are other leads they can keep quiet about them and pretend they don't exist...as long as they aren't found out about later and proven that the SA knew about them in advance. I've mentioned before that I'm going to do an analysis of cases that have been over turned, due to various criteria as a representation of how LE isn't infallable.

Hi Hollys G-mom
BBM
That info. is not new,it was released last year and discussed here on WS. I am sure a search will bring up the link to that thread and the cell pings thread. :)
Happy sleuthing!
 
Casey's phone pings on June 25 put her in Tony's apartment from 12:40 a.m. until midnight. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-6-25&c=4

Casey's phone pings on July 5 and interviews with witnesses have KC either in the company of Amy, William W. or Tony. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-7-5&c=4

What information is available showing Casey in the vicinity of or even with the opportunity for a visit to the "other" Sawgrass on either June 25 or July 5?

The physical evidence from KC's Pontiac trunk was locked up on June 27 and towed away & secured on June 30.
 
I found anotherthread that mentions this particular area and some "pings" in that area. Here is some quotes from that thread started 10-17-2008.


We are finding evidence that Casey was in this general vacintity during the time that Caylee was unaccounted for.

ALso, part of the reason I wanted to look into this further was due to the Adam Walsh case. I recently re-read John Walsh's book "Tears of Rage". In it he talks about:
1. How both he and his wife, Reve' , were considered suspects for years.
2. How his wife was considered a suspect due to her mis-truths to LE & FBI. She stated to them that there were no problems within her and John's marriage. Turned out to be a lie due to the fact that she had been carring on an affair with a close family friend.
3. The family friend was considered a suspect due to the affair. Motives being either jealousy because she wouldn't leave John, jealousy towards Adam, or to get Adam out of the way for thier relationship. None of these were true.
4. Mrs Walsh considered a suspect due to the fact that she had the bad taste to wear a work-out outfit to the mall on the day Adam was kidnapped.(Reminds me of how Casey is being adjudicated guilty by some due to her manner of dress.)
5. John Walsh considered a suspect due to his connections to potential Mobsters or his high paying job as Hotelier.
6. Witness were still comming forward 10 YEARS AFTER ADAM'S KIDNAPPING. Real witnesses who should have come forward on day one but waited because they thought that surely someone else had already given that info to LE. This went on for a decade. Witnesses who slowly came forward with descriptions of Adam's abductor, the vehicle he was forced into, ect.

The ONLY reason that Adam's case even came close to being resolved was due to John Walsh's diligence and had nothing to do with LE and thier handling of the case.

Please do not automatically assume that LE has all the answers. They have many I am sure, but they are also human just like us and are imperfect as well. I believe in LE, I believe that they do all they can to uphold justice and the law. I just don't happen to believe that they are incapable of making a mistake or oversight. I also do believe in the due process of the law and that justice will prevail in this case. I just don't see the harm in looking into a few areas of interest.

I also looked into the JBR case and I found in it all about the process by which a Grand Jury decides to prosecute a suspect. In the legal documents signed by the SA they have to state that there are NO POSSIBLE OTHER LEADS in order to convene a Grand Jury to seek prosecution. If there are other leads they can keep quiet about them and pretend they don't exist...as long as they aren't found out about later and proven that the SA knew about them in advance. I've mentioned before that I'm going to do an analysis of cases that have been over turned, due to various criteria as a representation of how LE isn't infallable.

With respect:

Well, in addition to OCSD, the FBI is involved. They are the best cops in the world. The two combined agencies, with their combined resources, are formidable. The biggest mistake KC made was getting the feds involved by claiming kidnapping.

Yes, both LE agencies concluded that there are no other leads, that all the evidence points to KC.

The case you have cited is one of the rarities-- like the Dowallaby case. Most criminals (like KC) are not very bright, and really CAN'T outfox LE. Most of the time, it's easy to figure out whodunit just by the mistakes. KC made a TON of mistakes.

There's a line from "Body Heat," Mickey Roark's character said, (discussing crime commission) "There are a hundred ways you can screw up. If you're a genius, you can maybe think of 50 of them. And, you ain't know f---ing genius." KC is also no criminal genius.

KC had custody of the car AND the baby. If Caylee was taken away from her, she knows by whom. If she knew by whom, she'd tell LE. But, she cant tell LE, because it's herself.

It's fun and interesting to think that KC has secret reasons for not telling what she knows, But, the fact is there can be no reason for her not to talk to LE.. at LEAST to the FBI, if she had any information that points to anyone else. There is no conspiracy. KC was not involved with any crime lords. She was just another 20s girls running around with other 20-somethings. There was no one with a motive to hurt Caylee, except KC. No one else had custody. No one else, who had any kind of contact with KC, has failed to cooperate with LE.

Sociopaths can be cute, too. Look at Ted Bundy! Nobody in his social circle believed he did it, either. He was too wholesome-looking, and too educated and articulate. And, he was civic-minded.

It's really nice that you can beleive KC is innocent. And, I mean that. But, that's not what the evidence says.
 
Casey's phone pings on June 25 put her in Tony's apartment from 12:40 a.m. until midnight. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-6-25&c=4

Casey's phone pings on July 5 and interviews with witnesses have KC either in the company of Amy, William W. or Tony. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-7-5&c=4

What information is available showing Casey in the vicinity of or even with the opportunity for a visit to the "other" Sawgrass on either June 25 or July 5?

The physical evidence from KC's Pontiac trunk was locked up on June 27 and towed away & secured on June 30.

BTW-- Still can't figure out what the other (ONE of the several other) Sawgrass/es has to do with the crime?

KC led LE to THAT Sawgrass. ONLY THAT Sawgrass.

In a state where sawgrass is an indigenous and prolific plant, a lot of things will be named "sawgrass." It's like a "Pine Tree Inn," in the north. Or, a "Rose Hotel."
 
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