Anthony Family Behaviors...

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I think it is interesting that Lee went from talking about "very interesting" phone calls that occured around the time/day that ZFG suppossedly called Casey to now just saying tritely that Casey is innocent until proven guilty.

It seems as that is all he has left to say. Maybe Casey sent him on a wild goose chase too.
 
I have an aunt and uncle who have done a great job, I think, of loving their son and standing by him...but not standing in the way of justice being served upon him. My cousin murdured a police officer...a father of 4. He will be up for parole soon....25 years.

My aunt and uncle don't go out of their way to talk about him, because they know some of the family will never forgive their son. They don't want to make people uncomfortable. But if asked, they are not ashamed to discuss him. They love him, even though he has done something horrible.

They were pretty indulgent of him when he was a child. Did not set boundaries, etc. They have raised his son since infancy, and he has grown up to be a nice young man.

I really look up to them for how they handled themselves through this, especialy in the early days when the media was hounding them.

Another story...my dad always told me he loved me, but if I was ever arrested, he would leave me in jail. A few weeks ago, he got a collect call from a jail, but hung up. Then he got worried and called my brother and I to see if we were okay! He had started thinking maybe one of his kids needed help (we are 40ish). I laughed and reminded him I knew never to call him if he was arrested, since he'd always told me he wouldn't bail me out!

I know I would still love my daughter, even if she killed her child. But I might have to not see her for a while.

I do think if I was Cindy, I would have said somethign along the lines of "if you don't tell me where Caylee's body is, I really never will forgive you. Now spill it if you want visitors for the next 30 years"
 
When their story was the only one being told, the Anthony's seemed to love the media, and the community who rallied to support them. But when info contradicting Casey's, and their stories was reported, the lies came home to roost, and they were held accountable, the media became "maggots" and they demanded the community "get off your asses & find my grand-daughter!"
It appears to me the media & the community were the only visible support system these people had!!! and I've yet to see any one of them looking for Caylee ANYWHERE, at ANY TIME!!! They're too busy running back & forth to the jail visiting Casey, and acting like a celebrity du jour.

I can't help but wonder, where are the extended family members, co-workers, and lifelong friends when they desperately need support & protection, even from themselves?!?! Have they made it a practice to alienate people through out their lifetime, or did they simply have the misfortune of acquiring fair weather friends??
 
I think that domestic disturbances and parents with too high of expectations can cause kids to act out, but how on earth can that cause one to go on and murder their children and have all the traits of a sociopath?
 
One poster wrote about 'Munchhausen or MSBP syndrome.
I am glad she brought that up.

Criminal profiler Pat Brown has wrote a good article regarding dangerous mothers.

How to Identify a Dangerous Mother

One of the keys to knowing if the mother is a psychopath and the kids are in harm's way is to note the outlandishness of the mother's stories. Baron von Munchausen wasn't the only one to tell a bizarre tale. One of the hallmarks of psychopathy is telling stories to get people's attention and to increase one's stature. The psychopath may get away with some of these lies, but often he or she lacks the ability to stay within the realm of possibility or back up the story with credible facts. When it comes to MSBP mothers, the stories they tell about their children often involve child abuse by the spouse (sexual or physical) or physical symptoms of illness.Eventually, the children may "remember" the abuse and begin to fear the designated abuser. There are often unusual symptoms and strange assault techniques that shouldn't puzzle the professionals, but alert them to the possibility someone is a big liar.If the stories don't do the trick, some MSBP mothers will actually injure or poison the child to get attention


So, what IS wrong with these women? If they're not insane, why do they kill their children?

A woman, on the other hand, gets a lot of attention when she is pregnant. She gets a lot of attention at the birth. Then she gets stuck with the baby. The baby is a lot of work, and people have an annoying habit of cooing at the baby and being more interested in the child than the mother. For a mother who doesn't love her children, they are nothing but competition. So, what could be better than the child's death and funeral? The mother of a dead child gets a lot of attention.

The other reason women choose their own children as targets is that children are easier for females to physically handle, and it is easier for a woman to get away with this kind of a crime. Male serial killers usually pick easy targets: small women, children, the elderly, or inebriated people. Female killers have a smaller choice of people they can control. One very good group is babies. They don't fight back, they are readily available, and they only require a pillow to do the job


http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/munchausen_syndrome/10.html
 
I am a newbie here and have only posted once before but I feel compelled to give my thoughts on the Anthony's behavior. For a little background, I am the oldest of three siblings. My sister commited suicide at age 21 secondary to drug induced schizophrenia. She was a kind and gentle soul unless she was in the grip of an episode. My brother has been labeled many things by many doctors but I suspect that he is a very narcissistic sociopath. He is totally focused on himself and his needs, is juvenile in his behaviors, and can't hold a job because he will not follow rules or respect authority. My mother is severely mentally ill with much the same issues as my sister and brother. She also has displayed symptoms of Munchausen's and Munchausen's by proxy. I was her victim. My father was the fixer, protector, and sadly the enabler. I was the adaptable, high acheiving "normal" one. Their words not mine. Are you reading between the lines and seeing any similarities here?

The Anthony family pathology didn't start with this case. I suspect it goes back many years and a few generations. I don't think Casey started out as a sociopath. I think that she was a sweet weak little girl who never measured up to her big brother or so she thought. I think George and Cindy's marriage has been troubled for years and the children paid for it. Thus their close relationship. In Cindy's constant attempts to make everything perfect, she assisted in decimating Casey's self image and ultimately her soul. George was very likely dominated by Cindy and may have actually taken his frustrations with Cindy out on Casey.

I think that they did the best they knew how to do but I do believe something caused Casey to die inside long ago. The only time she was "happy" was when she was partying and self medicating. I will not be surprised if,before, all this is over, Casey becomes almost catatonic. The posters here are right. She can no longer feel anything and mimics the emotions and social interactions of others. I think her promiscuity is also SIGNIFICANT. Draw whatever conclusions that you will.

I am also the mother of four adult children and have three grandchildren. One of them is 3yr old Kayleigh... this is how I got so involved with this story.

I know in my gut that Cindy and George know what happened. I do not believe they were involved in any way. Cindy won't shut up or stop searching for Caylee because when she finally faces the truth, she will die inside too. She raised Caylee as a "second chance to do it right". She knows what her daughter is all about and she also knows her part in making her that way. The hurt and pain of this revelation is too much to bear for her. Yes, She is a loudmouth, attention seeker, and not very appreciative of all the help from LE and the media. But she is also a devastated mother and grandmother. Would any of us act the same way if presented with the same situation? I hear a chorus of resouding NOs with myself included. However, we really don't know.
Regardless of what ever the outcome is , I do believe Casey should pay for all her crimes to the fullest extent of the law. Funny thing, she may actually get better when away from her family. Sounds harsh but I have seen it before.
GOD BLESS THEM ALL

Man, TexasSunshine, that's the best damn analogy of this family I've heard yet... I think you are "dead on balls accurate!"
bowdown.gif
And I can identify with your personal history, as I have some major pathology in my family too. I just thank God every day that I survived and obviously you did too.

Thanks so much for sharing. Take care...
 
According to my understanding their parents gave her one more chance after another. Casey didn't want to report that Caylee's missing either, she said 'give me one more day', but Cindy answered 'I gave you a month already'. Casey explained that she is investigating her daughter's disappearance herself' Utter rubbish!! She was looking for Caylee in the nightclubs? Come on.

and tattoo parlors-don't forget that. Anyone see ANYWHERE where she posted anything online in all her ramblings about partying, etc, about Zenaida or anyone that knew her? Anyone read anywhere where Casey asked them one single question about Zenaida? Anyone find one little tiny piece of information even suggesting that Casey was interested in the fact that her little girl was not with her and she supposedly did not know where she was?

Her parents are enabling her in her lies and they should not. OR they are covering up for her because they know MUCH more than we can even imagine that they know and they do not want to see her in jail for the rest of her life or put to death for what was an "accident"...

Who can really KNOW what is going on with these folks when they all are so evasive and change their stories like some folks change their clothes...???
 
I also find a problem in the gas can story as told to police and then in the interview with greta-the cans were reported stolen on the 22nd. George goes on national tv and admits that on the 24th he found the cas cans in the trunk of casey's car (where was Caylee? why was Casey at the house without Caylee?) The car was abandoned on what, the 27th? and so on the 24th, George has just provided an alibi for his daughter-NO odor present on the 24th-no Caylee in the trunk-SO...

They are telling lies to confuse LE and they are succeeding in looking guilty as hell as far as I am concerned, at a COVERUP...
 
I grew up in a family where my mom said that if I ever landed in jail I was on my own. I can understand unconditional love, but children need to be taught to take responsibility for their actions.

I don't hate George and Cindy. I feel sorry for them.


I agree that Casey needs to take responsibility for her actions. I remember Cindy's words when she told Casey it was her fault that she was in jail because she lied. She did not sound like she was cutting Casey any slack.
Cindy after all turned her in. I admire her courage.

We must remember that Cindy, George and Lee are victims. They have suffered a great loss. Yes, your mom may have told you that if you end up in jail you are on your own. We all say that in hopes that our children will believe that and stay out of trouble. However, most of us will do anything to support and love our children even in times of trouble and I bet when push came to shove most mothers would do the same. It is just embredded in that love nature. Thank God that Jesus has compassion for us even in our worst state. Otherwise, He never would have had the compassion to suffer that cruel death just to save our sorry souls.

We need to have compassion for these people. Their hearts are broken. I agree with the letter that Jesse G Sr. wrote.

Thanks for listening.
 
Just the fact that George just said to the media that he doesn't think the body that was in the trunk was Caylee's make me scratch my head. To my knowledge, there are no other missing persons connected with the Anthony family or friends. So....unless it was a homeless person who crawled into Casey's trunk and died...

I really think the family is going to go against every piece of evidence and theory that points a finger at Casey. Which is odd since before this case became so huge, they were all suspecting Casey of doing something bad to their grandchild/niece. No idea why they all of a sudden changed their minds.

Any thoughts?
 
... snipped for space ...

I am a newbie here and have only posted once before but I feel compelled to give my thoughts on the Anthony's behavior. ...

The Anthony family pathology didn't start with this case. I suspect it goes back many years and a few generations. I don't think Casey started out as a sociopath. I think that she was a sweet weak little girl who never measured up to her big brother or so she thought. I think George and Cindy's marriage has been troubled for years and the children paid for it. Thus their close relationship. In Cindy's constant attempts to make everything perfect, she assisted in decimating Casey's self image and ultimately her soul. George was very likely dominated by Cindy and may have actually taken his frustrations with Cindy out on Casey.

I think that they did the best they knew how to do but I do believe something caused Casey to die inside long ago. The only time she was "happy" was when she was partying and self medicating. I will not be surprised if,before, all this is over, Casey becomes almost catatonic. The posters here are right. She can no longer feel anything and mimics the emotions and social interactions of others. I think her promiscuity is also SIGNIFICANT. Draw whatever conclusions that you will.

... snipped for space ...

Regardless of what ever the outcome is , I do believe Casey should pay for all her crimes to the fullest extent of the law. Funny thing, she may actually get better when away from her family. Sounds harsh but I have seen it before.
GOD BLESS THEM ALL

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Welcome Texassunshine! Thank you for taking the time to post such a fine analysis/analogy so the rest of us can benefit from your life experiences. You may or may not have hit the nail on the head - regardless, it's a valuable post.

I've just arrived at the end of this thread (so far), and I'm just sitting here thinking "that was time well spent, with some worthwhile discussion, and I learned a few things".

So, actually, I'd like to thank all the thoughtful posters here!

I hope folks on the other Caylee threads venture over here and learn a bit the Anthony family pathology (your excellent choice of word). It could even help quell those "I don't undertand that family" rants. JMHO

I'm not saying we can ever completely understand the Anthonys. But, there's some useful insight here. People who care to understand will find this thread supportive.

So, WS members - keep posting these excellent informative posts. And if you recall an exceptional post from another thread on this topic, consider pasting it here as well, with credit to the original poster, of course.

Looking forward to checking back from time to time on the interesting discussion here.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
Oh, and Casey reminds me of Elizabeth Diane Downs; remember her?
DianeDowns.jpg
Ann Rule, "Small Sacrifices?" Every time I see that clip of Casey smiling, as she walks through the door and across the floor as she's being escorted to jail by a prison guard, I think of Diane Downs. She has the same $hit-eating grin Diane had when she got arrested. Also, Diane Downs was diagnosed as a Narcissistic Sociopath...

I had to wiki that case but yes!! She does remind me of Casey. That emotional detachment she has for her child and narcissistic way about her.
 
I'm copy/pasting this post - it was on the general thread some time in the last 7 days or so. Link is good too - about grief. It makes sense that it be here too, IMO...

Originally Posted by impatientredhead
http://www.coping.org/grief/denial.htm

Persons in denial:

Appear to be irrational to those who know the problems and losses they have suffered.

Appear to be calm and relaxed to those who do not know the problems and losses they have suffered.

Are a cause of frustration to those who want them to confront the truth of the problem or loss honestly.

Appear to be unemotional, apathetic, or indifferent in the face of loss.

Are considered pathetic and pitiable by those who have tried to confront them with the denial and have failed.

Appear to be caught up in magical thinking about the loss involved.

Appear to be excessively involved in fantasy thinking about the loss or problem.

Appear to be childlike, very dependent on others to nurture them and reassure them that everything will be all right.

Appear to be running away from the truth concerning their problems or loss.

Appear to be avoiding or rejecting those who are intent on confronting them with their problems
 
I had to wiki that case but yes!! She does remind me of Casey. That emotional detachment she has for her child and narcissistic way about her.

Yes! They are very much alike. I also think of the similarities between the tattoo Casey got and the unicorn Diane bought right before she shot her kids...

She buys a unicorn and has her three children's names engraved on it and the date when she intended to kill them. A week after buying the unicorn, she decides to take her children out for a drive on a lonely, isolated road, and this is where she decides to shoot them. She stops the car, gets out, opens the car trunk to retrieve the gun, and then opens her car door and starts shooting her three kids, one by one. After shooting them, she turns the gun on herself, shoots where it is non-life-threatening and then carefully bandages her bloody wrist in a beach towel. She then drives deliberately slow, hoping her kids are dead (two manage to survive and but one dies). When she finally gets to the hospital she announces, "someone shot my kids!"

"Small Sacrifices" is a great read. Ann Rule rocks!
 
That's what I think too. I read an article about young mothers who kill their newborns. According to the doctor who wrote it, the pregnant girls don't think of the baby as a real child and may even refuse to accept that they're pregnant. When the child is born they feel no remorse about killing it because the baby is, in their minds, no different than anything else that might be expelled from our bodies...if you know what I mean.

I think Casey is one of those types who would have killed her newborn if given the chance. Caylee lived almost 3 years. In all that time I don't think Casey's feelings for her ever changed - Caylee was still nothing to Casey, other than perhaps a tool she could use to manipulate her parents.

....and good photo ops...did you notice the pics of Casey and Caylee? Always really cute and Casey seemed to like having her pic taken. She also seemed to like to put sunglasses on her. Like she was trying to make the baby look "cool".
Who knows, like you said we dont really know her. Maybe it did appear to her friends she was a good Mother. I dont remember any of them saying she was neglectful or hit her alot, etc.
 
Yes! They are very much alike. I also think of the similarities between the tattoo Casey got and the unicorn Diane bought right before she shot her kids...

She buys a unicorn and has her three children's names engraved on it and the date when she intended to kill them. A week after buying the unicorn, she decides to take her children out for a drive on a lonely, isolated road, and this is where she decides to shoot them. She stops the car, gets out, opens the car trunk to retrieve the gun, and then opens her car door and starts shooting her three kids, one by one. After shooting them, she turns the gun on herself, shoots where it is non-life-threatening and then carefully bandages her bloody wrist in a beach towel. She then drives deliberately slow, hoping her kids are dead (two manage to survive and but one dies). When she finally gets to the hospital she announces, "someone shot my kids!"

"Small Sacrifices" is a great read. Ann Rule rocks!

I am an avid reader and that book is definitly on my wish-list to read. ty!!
 
I have been thinking alot about Cindy's place in all of this. I know we have spent much time trying to figure out how to make Casey tell the truth.

I have the answer to this one! I spoke with a psychiatrist and asked him this question: "If a person is a sociopath, or a pathological liar (I know they are different pathologies), and you gave them sodium pentothal (spelling?) would they tell the truth?" He paused a second and said, "Why, yes, they would. The brain stores data in a certain place (blah blah blah) and it is able to be accessed with sodium pentothal. A pathological liar properly under the influence of that drug would tell the truth."

SO....
(Imho) Baez (or any defense atty worth his or her salt) would never allow Casey undergo this...and you cannot force a drug like this on a defendant... however, if Grandma Cindy really believes that Caylee is alive and "Casey does not know" maybe SHE could convince Casey to try this avenue.
 
I also find a problem in the gas can story as told to police and then in the interview with greta-the cans were reported stolen on the 22nd. George goes on national tv and admits that on the 24th he found the cas cans in the trunk of casey's car (where was Caylee? why was Casey at the house without Caylee?) The car was abandoned on what, the 27th? and so on the 24th, George has just provided an alibi for his daughter-NO odor present on the 24th-no Caylee in the trunk-SO...

They are telling lies to confuse LE and they are succeeding in looking guilty as hell as far as I am concerned, at a COVERUP...

What really burned my biscuits (love that saying) was when George fobbed the robbery off on a neighbor! Especially when he knew full well when he fobbed it off on a neighbor that Casey had taken the cans.
 
Thanks for correcting that it was Ryan..I knew it was a guy she said it to, just couldn't remember which one.

IMHO, Cindy doesn't have to admit it publicly. The fact that she admitted it at all means she is aware..I don't need to see her spill her guts.
[snip]

I don't want to see her "spill her guts" either. But there is a vast difference between a parent who says "I don't know and until I know I will believe my daughter) to one that aggressively attacks law enforcement ("Get off your d*mn *sses") and calls the media she also coveted "maggots, leeches and parasites". If you watch the media she's done she gets SNIPPY and P*SSY when the conversation does not go exactly her way. She is her own worst enemy. I think their family should have had a real spokesperson from the get-go.
 
I don't want to see her "spill her guts" either. But there is a vast difference between a parent who says "I don't know and until I know I will believe my daughter) to one that aggressively attacks law enforcement ("Get off your d*mn *sses") and calls the media she also coveted "maggots, leeches and parasites". If you watch the media she's done she gets SNIPPY and P*SSY when the conversation does not go exactly her way. She is her own worst enemy. I think their family should have had a real spokesperson from the get-go.
All the media interviews will come back to haunt the Anthony's at trial, and the GF should know that. It is really kind of sad, they are helping to build the case against CA.
 
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