AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

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MyBelle said:
With all due respect, has there ever been a knock at your door by someone handing out literature about their faith? There sure has been at our house but we just politely decline. While you and I may not choose that particular religion for ourselves, millions of Americans do choose it and practice it and have every right to do so. What I find to be far more distasteful and troubling is judgmental finger-pointing, which is what the parents in this case have accused authorities of doing.

JMO
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I could care less what anyone's religion is.

I was only explaining how I would feel and react as a adult or child, if I were in that situation.

Others may want to focus on discussing this from a more political act of conspiracy or overreach of government authority.

My focus and concern remains on the fact that their have been multiple reports on the well being of the children. I feel like I have the right to discuss that side of the coin, just as others have the right to discuss their views and opinions.
 
TrackerSam said:
What are they being charged with?
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When there are allegations of child maltreatment, investigations are not necessarily conducted in the same manner as criminal investigations where charges have to be filed. Children are unable to remove themselves from a situation and so someone has to step in on their behalf to protect them and listen to them. Sometimes in these cases, children are not returned to the household until things can be investigated further to determine what if any action needs to be taken and then putting a plan of action into place if necessary for their safety.
 
I wonder if this was all brought about due to someone listening what he has on the website with no evidence of them hurting the kids. Then they just used the MMS as a means to get into the house.
 
According to the FB page, the parents say the son who gave the interview is agnostic and his parents are understanding of his views.
 
For some readers of this thread, it is okay for parents to beat their children. Would it be okay for beating to be a legally-approved punishment for adults who have broken the law? If the father (or anyone else) is deemed to have beaten children, would it be acceptable for a corrections officer to administer corporal punishment on the father?

I understand an occasional spanking, but there are many parents who never spank a child, and the child still manages to grow up to be a respectful successful adult. But hitting a child with something other than your hand, hitting a child on his/her bare backside with a wooden spoon or a paddle or a switch of some kind... No way in hell (or heaven) is that right or legal or civilized....or religious.

I would suggest that any adult who uses an implement to beat a child, particularly with the child's pants pulled down is nothing more than a mean and nasty pervert. WWJD?
 
Charlie09 said:
It's not a sermon, from what I read, it's what they go over in the morning.
My daughter and I have morning devotions (not quite daily) but several times in the week, sometimes they are lighthearted, sometimes they are more serious and around whatever attitude or behavior that needs correcting. I didn't listen to very much of it, what I heard was spanking -
There's a lot of speculation on your part about how the discipline happened, but I'd go with a conservative caution on the abuse allegation until there are charges...but that's just me.

No, it doesn't sound like that in AR -it sounds like there shouldn't be bruising (which a beating would leave bruising) red marks are fine -
it also doesn't mandate spankings, but it allows the parents to decide.
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What in the world does it matter if it was a "sermon" or devotions, I had it in quotes because I know he wasn't preaching at a church.

First bold - maybe we would be debating on a more even playing field if you listened to it. I did 3 times, and he SAYS that the Bible doesn't say to spank your child, it says to beat them even after they're crying and screaming from the pain. I'm not going to discuss it anymore though; I've said what I wanted to say, and I could say it again 1000 times more and it'll be no more or no less true than it is now. I don't have the time, energy or patience to do that. I'm basically a pretty lazy person - just ask my family! :shame:

Second bold - you have your opinions just as I have mine, even if you do state them as facts. No matter how many times I'm told that it doesn't sound like it (to someone else) it still sounds that way to me - which is what I stated. Trust me, I know that beatings don't always leave bruises, and I have no doubt that there are too many others on this site who also know it. But, in spite of that, I'm always happy to hear that there are people in this world who never had to learn that.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree since I'm not going to base my opinion of a story on a book report given by someone who never read the book. I feel no need to convince anybody of anything here, but I do sometimes like to state my opinions. All MOO
 
Morag said:
For some readers of this thread, it is okay for parents to beat their children. Would it be okay for beating to be a legally-approved punishment for adults who have broken the law? If the father (or anyone else) is deemed to have beaten children, would it be acceptable for a corrections officer to administer corporal punishment on the father?

I understand an occasional spanking, but there are many parents who never spank a child, and the child still manages to grow up to be a respectful successful adult. But hitting a child with something other than your hand, hitting a child on his/her bare backside with a wooden spoon or a paddle or a switch of some kind... No way in hell (or heaven) is that right or legal or civilized....or religious.

I would suggest that any adult who uses an implement to beat a child, particularly with the child's pants pulled down is nothing more than a mean and nasty pervert. WWJD?
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Disagree. I think it depends on the force used, not what was used.
 
“Belief” is different from “actions”. We are all free to believe whatever we like, but our actions must be in accordance with our laws.

Someone can “believe” that honor killing murder is “right” and “commanded by God”, but if they commit “honor killing” murder in the U.S., and are caught, they will face the consequences of our laws (whether they personally believe in those laws or not). Child abuse in the name of religion is still child abuse. And whatever they’re doing in that home in Arkansas, CPS, LE, and the courts have determined is not “okay”.

I listened to several of the “morning devotions” sermons/ lectures on the wordpress site, and perused some of their other sermons. I checked out their aquaponics system pics, too. The "devotions" clearly advocate and describe physical abuse of the children, IMO. As I’ve stated several times on this thread, every piece of information that comes out ever more strongly convinces me that there is religious child maltreatment occurring in that home. In fact, from what I’ve read, I think this has been going on for quite a long time, and may be escalating.

Despite Arkansas having probably one of the most liberal “spanking” statutes in this country, these children have been ordered to be continued in foster care, and not returned home, yet—thankfully, because I’m sure they would face serious punishment for “betrayal” (parent’s words in their interview) and “telling”.

The father has recorded many lectures/ sermons/ devotionals justifying his apparently regular physical beating of the children, using language such as “scourging” (indeed—he goes to great lengths to define DEEP scourging punishment and correction of children, from “mere” correction), physical “chastening”, and physical “chastisement”, for perceived disobedience or willfulness.

Worse yet, he uses these lectures to demonstrate that by doing this, he is a “deeply faithful man of God”, and God demands this from the father and head of the home. Love, pain, acceptance of beatings, respect, and faithfulness to God are all glommed together in a horribly twisted interpretation, IMO, and delivered to the children as they eat their nutritiously grown food and lovingly prepared breakfast. This is not spanking, IMO—and particularly if delivered to teenagers. It’s religious child abuse, IMO. How profoundly sad and infuriating, IMO, that children should be made to be so confused about love and discipline and faith, by their very own father. I cannot imagine forcing children to endure those kinds of lectures every day as they eat breakfast, then again in the evening. IMO, it’s as sick and twisted, and psychologically manipulative, as the FLDS, Jonestown, and other notorious cult groups. Aquaponics and parentally-administered child scourging— all in the same website. SMH.
 
Morag said:
For some readers of this thread, it is okay for parents to beat their children. Would it be okay for beating to be a legally-approved punishment for adults who have broken the law? If the father (or anyone else) is deemed to have beaten children, would it be acceptable for a corrections officer to administer corporal punishment on the father?

I understand an occasional spanking, but there are many parents who never spank a child, and the child still manages to grow up to be a respectful successful adult. But hitting a child with something other than your hand, hitting a child on his/her bare backside with a wooden spoon or a paddle or a switch of some kind... No way in hell (or heaven) is that right or legal or civilized....or religious.

I would suggest that any adult who uses an implement to beat a child, particularly with the child's pants pulled down is nothing more than a mean and nasty pervert. WWJD?
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To all of your first paragraph, the answer to each question is, no, it is not okay.

I agree with your second paragraph in its entirety.

To your third paragraph, the motive for such behavior, especially when teenagers are concerned, is perverse. Not all BDSM is performed by people wearing black vinyl, tattoos, and piercings.

I wonder if anyone else noted that the drug in question (the so-called water purifier) is often administered via enema?
 
SStarr33 said:
According to the FB page, the parents say the son who gave the interview is agnostic and his parents are understanding of his views.
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Yeah that statement was made in the context of explaining why he was wrong or confused when he stated that there were some valid concerns regarding the children - he is not religious so he doesn't understand why it's not okay to beat children.

I heard the devotional. Sick stuff. He has all his children sitting in total silence for 35 minutes as he delivers a lecture in which he tries to justify, over and over again, "beating, not spanking" his kids. The youngest is four. Yet not one kid makes a sound, for 35 minutes.

He talks about beating his kids with a rod so intensely they feel they are being killed. He talks about not letting "you go off to your room to sulk" where the kid will think about how much he hates the place or will seek revenge on the father. This indicates he is "correcting" these kids in the presence of others.

He also states that he must continue to "chastise" the child even if they are screaming in pain.

Yeah, there's a problem with that family.
 
gitana1 said:
Yeah that statement was made in the context of explaining why he was wrong or confused when he stated that there were some valid concerns regarding the children - he is not religious so he doesn't understand why it's not okay to beat children.

I heard the devotional. Sick stuff. He has all his children sitting in total silence for 35 minutes as he delivers a lecture in which he tries to justify, over and over again, "beating, not spanking" his kids. The youngest is four. Yet not one kid makes a sound, for 35 minutes.

He talks about beating his kids with a rod so intensely they feel they are being killed. He talks about not letting "you go off to your room to sulk" where the kid will think about how much he hates the place or will seek revenge on the father. This indicates he is "correcting" these kids in the presence of others.

He also states that he must continue to "chastise" the child even if they are screaming in pain.

Yeah, there's a problem with that family.
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He also freely admits that the anyone including the government or psychologists, are not right if they state that beating his children is wrong and he will only listen to God. Why would anyone in the right mind feel it is safe to return children to someone that has clearly stated such?

IMO, that is exactly what he would do to them for speaking out once back in the home.

It sounds to me like a long speech of someone trying to justify what they did by using the bible. There is nothing religious about that. It screams more about power and control in some sick way.

How many years has this been going on? Those "sermons" are not new. Was the sermon prompted by him being questioned previously for his actions and he wanted to try and instill fear in a attempt to shut someone up?
 
No kidding-- and he goes on and on and on and on about Proverbs 23:14:

"Thou shalt beat him with the rod and shall deliver his soul from Hell."

Translation: "God commands that I must beat you to save your soul from Hell."

Preceded by a discussion of "The Attitude For Correction", and the "Promise for Correction".
Translation: "How to take your beatings so they're not wasted and you go to Hell."

This guy's "morning devotional" lectured over their Cheerios on why *exactly* he has to beat his kids the way he does, makes Michael and Debi Pearl sound like they're advocating therapeutic massages with the plumbing accessories.

Sick, sick, sick. Criminal, IMO. I don't care how nice their living room looks, or how bountiful their aquaponic vegetables are, this is sick and twisted abuse on a number of levels, both psychological and physical. Oh yeah-- "IMO."
 
TrackerSam said:
What are they being charged with?
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oh please...they believe in corporal punishment, alternative medicine, home school their children and take the Bible literally -
oh wait...what was the question? being charged outside of the WS court of public opinion?

I haven't seen any updates on any charges...
 
gitana1 said:
Yeah that statement was made in the context of explaining why he was wrong or confused when he stated that there were some valid concerns regarding the children - he is not religious so he doesn't understand why it's not okay to beat children.

I heard the devotional. Sick stuff. He has all his children sitting in total silence for 35 minutes as he delivers a lecture in which he tries to justify, over and over again, "beating, not spanking" his kids. The youngest is four. Yet not one kid makes a sound, for 35 minutes.

He talks about beating his kids with a rod so intensely they feel they are being killed. He talks about not letting "you go off to your room to sulk" where the kid will think about how much he hates the place or will seek revenge on the father. This indicates he is "correcting" these kids in the presence of others.

He also states that he must continue to "chastise" the child even if they are screaming in pain.

Yeah, there's a problem with that family.
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I was beat as a child. Repeatedly. The pain NEVER goes away. The physical damage might go away after a few hours / days but the psychological damage can definitely be everlasting. I was 14 the last time I had to drop my pants so my dad could beat me with a belt on my bare behind and that was the last night I ever spent in that house under his thumb. There is NO EXCUSE to condone abuse of a child. WTF is wrong with people to think that its ok to justify that jargon all being done in the name of the Saviour? The only thing those beatings did for me was taught me to despise my father and stepmother...which I feel nothing for either of them to this day. I'm 48, educated, married with a wonderful family, great wife and mother as well as friend - there is no good to come out of abuse but hostility and disrespect of the abuser. The reason I turned out so well isn't bc I was beat...it's bc I had a great Nona awesome friends' parents, wonderful neighbors - all that got involved to help save me. Sounds like a rant but its all unabashed truth.
 
gitana1 said:
Yeah that statement was made in the context of explaining why he was wrong or confused when he stated that there were some valid concerns regarding the children - he is not religious so he doesn't understand why it's not okay to beat children.

I heard the devotional. Sick stuff. He has all his children sitting in total silence for 35 minutes as he delivers a lecture in which he tries to justify, over and over again, "beating, not spanking" his kids. The youngest is four. Yet not one kid makes a sound, for 35 minutes.

He talks about beating his kids with a rod so intensely they feel they are being killed. He talks about not letting "you go off to your room to sulk" where the kid will think about how much he hates the place or will seek revenge on the father. This indicates he is "correcting" these kids in the presence of others.

He also states that he must continue to "chastise" the child even if they are screaming in pain.

Yeah, there's a problem with that family.
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So to me personally, I hear it in a different tone than you guys do...I hear that repentance is key, not screaming, not pouting...scream all you like, until the repentance is shown, I'll keep at it.
We don't know the personalities, we only hear snippets
 
http://www.arkansasmatters.com/stor...re-of-7-children/32027/-LL8EeoDqEyDfgFHdC5H_w

Garland County parents fight for their seven children in court Wednesday
Posted: Jan 20, 2015 11:57 PM EST
Updated: Jan 20, 2015 11:58 PM EST
By Matt Mershon, ReporterCONNECT

Stanley mentioned investigators spoke with his children privately. His wife, Michelle, said stories about their child rearing practices came into play. A claim made by one of the children, that he often goes hungry, was refuted by the mother claiming he often didn't want to eat what she made because it contained something like “whole wheat.”
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“I'm not against DHS coming and removing kids when they're really in danger,” said Michelle Stanley. “But you've got two teenagers who wanted to go to public school, they've been fighting for it for a very long time, and I think that they just took advantage of them.”
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http://www.arkansasmatters.com/stor...re-of-7-children/32027/-LL8EeoDqEyDfgFHdC5H_w

Garland County Responds to Seizure of 7 Children
01/20/2015 04:44 PM01/20/2015 04:47 PM

“It’s never our desire as law enforcement officers or the Garland County Sheriff’s Office to remove any child from a home. However, it’s my commitment to protect all citizens of Garland County, especially minor children who simply cannot protect themselves. Although I cannot comment further as this is an ongoing investigation involving minor children, this case may lead to criminal arrests and charges being filed. It was the opinion of onsite investigators with the Garland County Sheriff’s Department and Arkansas State Police the children were at risk of serious harm and the decision was made to remove the minor children from the home pursuant to the Arkansas Child Maltreatment Act, 12-18-1001. Additionally, I would encourage the public not to try this case in social media or the public in general as it could affect the minor children involved. As certain facts come to light, I am confident the public will understand why this decision was made and I firmly stand behind this decision to protect the children involved.”
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