AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

[MsFacetious]

These (mostly normal people) have an aquaponics system and several videos about it.
Just thought I'd share in case anyone was interested. :seeya:

https://www.youtube.com/user/AnAmericanHomestead/search?query=aquaponic

 

[K_Z]

Thank you, Ms Facetious. Pretty much all sources are in agreement about the effects of chemicals on the fish, bacterial cultures, and plants-- and that chemicals are very bad for the health of the system. As I said earlier, if you put bleach in your fish tank, you'll probably need to rely on divine intervention to keep your fish and plants alive.

Those that understand this, and understand the science (especially the science of how the MMS is broken down to component molecules-- which are also harmful, and persist), understand that the "water purification" cover stories for MMS are pure BS, IMO. Probably out and out lies, IMO, to cover up whatever was being done with the MMS. What those people hope when they repeat those stories, IMO, is that most people won't question things too deeply, and just accept "aquaponics" and "water purification", and then they can deflect the conversation to how they are being persecuted for homesteading, homeschooling, religion, etc. The lady who posted the aquaponics post and picture album on the FB site from Michelle Stanley, clearly doesn't understand very much about aquaponics, and was more interested in anticipating that people would post and criticize the pictures of the children playing inside the support cages in the aquaponics album, as being put in a cage. (They are very cute pictures of kids having fun. I have no problem with their kids having fun, or with their aquaponics system. I think there are lies being told and repeated about the MMS, IMO.)

I personally think something very unpleasant may have been going on related to the MMS in the home, because there is an AWFUL LOT of scrambling going on to justify its use and presence in the home.

Begin listening at 11:00 min to hear discussion of aquaponics and the effect of chemicals.

[video=youtube;GrfmOhCmTYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrfmOhCmTYo[/video]

 

[K_Z]

This ongoing banter about alcohol, dabbing it on infant gums, etc is nothing more than a distraction and a tangential deflection of the conversation that was grasped onto from one poster's hypothetical example. Just like the former deflected posts about the school district providing tutors.

There is no evidence of anything related to alcohol and the kids in this case, so it's off topic. And the school district cannot and will not provide these children in foster care with a tutor. Can we move on?

 

[tlcya]

I believe it is to protect the children's privacy in case something did happen.

I agree, I believe it is also to protect the parents towards anticipated future reunification without the details of whatever the allegations were being bandied about by friends, neighbors, naysayers and the world at large. But unfortunately that ship sailed the minute the Stanley parents began their publicity campaign.

 

[808paradise]

You're right, K_Z. I apologize.

 

[daisytrail]

This ongoing banter about alcohol, dabbing it on infant gums, etc is nothing more than a distraction and a tangential deflection of the conversation that was grasped onto from one poster's hypothetical example. Just like the former deflected posts about the school district providing tutors.

There is no evidence of anything related to alcohol and the kids in this case, so it's off topic. And the school district cannot and will not provide these children in foster care with a tutor. Can we move on?

Yep. Right on all counts.

 

[MyBelle]

MMS is sodium chlorite, not bleach. The FDA warning points out that it is the instructions on the product that are misleading and dangerous. They do not state sodium chlorite on its own is dangerous nor is its sale illegal. So far, there has been no evidence that the Stanleys were giving it to themselves, fish or kids in toxic levels.

Municipal water systems all over the world have been using sodium chlorite for decades.

The product instructs consumers to mix the 28 percent sodium chlorite solution with an acid such as citrus juice. This mixture produces chlorine dioxide.....
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm220747.htm

Sodium chlorite is a compound used for water disinfection and purification.
Read more: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-6/Sodium-Chlorite.html#ixzz3SjV2ZYCo

Chlorine dioxide is toxic, hence limits on exposure to it are needed to ensure its safe use. The United States Environmental Protection Agency has set a maximum level of 0.8 mg/L for chlorine dioxide in drinking water.[33] The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), an agency of the United States Department of Labor, has set an 8 hour permissible exposure limit of 0.1 ppm in air (0.3 milligrams per cubic meter (mg/m3) for people working with chlorine dioxide.[34]

On July 30, 2010 and again on October 1, 2010, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA), warned against the use of the product "Miracle Mineral Supplement" or "MMS", which when made up according to instructions produces chlorine dioxide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_dioxide

JMO

 

[stormshine]

MyBelle, consider this. A cane is a perfectly normal thing to have in the house. Lots of people need canes. Now imagine a company was manufacturing a specific kind of came as being great for beating kids. Specifically marketed for beating kids with. Now imagine that particular cane from that company was found in house after allegations of abuse. Would you think "Well, canes are used for walking" would be a valid counter-argument against abuse allegations? Because that's what MMS is. It's a perfectly normal, everyday substance which is being marketed to give kids bleach enemas, drinks, and baths with.

 

[MyBelle]

MyBelle, consider this. A cane is a perfectly normal thing to have in the house. Lots of people need canes. Now imagine a company was manufacturing a specific kind of came as being great for beating kids. Specifically marketed for beating kids with. Now imagine that particular cane from that company was found in house after allegations of abuse. Would you think "Well, canes are used for walking" would be a valid counter-argument against abuse allegations? Because that's what MMS is. It's a perfectly normal, everyday substance which is being marketed to give kids bleach enemas, drinks, and baths with.

How something is marketed isn't the issue. There still has to be proof the product is being used in such a fashion that it is physically harming children. All the FDA did was issue a warning. For all I know, Hal Stanley heeded the warning and isn't giving it to his children. When the FDA issued the warning years ago to stop giving children aspirin, my husband and I immediately heeded the warning even though both of us grew-up with Bayer aspirin in the household.

JMO

 

[gitana1]

BBM. It would be great if you can cite some case law to support your statement of fact. Thanks.

Well, its logic. If the purpose of the regulation is to minimize disruption to the kids but to maintain the status quo with respect to their education would mean to have them continue to receive education from the parents who are accused of abusing them, that wouldn't work.

What if they're not? Who does the gag order protect?

I distrust censorship totally. I think gag orders in these cases hamper free speech. Let the parents speak out. They should have the right to speak out about what they feel is government intrusion into their lives Criticism of government should not be silenced. I'm also sick of CPS hiding behind the shield of confidentiality. Even when the kid dies, they cite confidentiality. Nonsense.

Im sensitive about these things. My grandparents and my mom were subject to foreign Nazi rule in Holland and had to risk their lives to access information via illegal radios and newspapers. And on my dads side, my great grandfather was assassinated by the fascist Franco dictatorship and his son, my beloved grandfather, became an ardent socialist as a result and was imprisoned for that. And threatened with death. He warned me to be careful to never write anything about politics for fear I could be persecuted for my words at a later date. Not even in a letter.

Fear.

Censorship is the enemy of freedom and liberty from oppression. No matter what your political persuasion.

Nope. Gag orders are wrong.

 

[Harmony 2]

Please stay on topic... :tyou:

 

[TrackerSam]

I believe it is to protect the children's privacy in case something did happen.

I think the children are also under a gag order and it's there to protect the state. Charge them with a crime or let them have their kids back.

 

[TrackerSam]

Sodium chlorite.

Sodium chlorite, NaClO2, sometimes in combination with zinc chloride, also finds application as a component in therapeutic rinses, mouthwashes, toothpastes and gels, mouth sprays, as preservative in eye drops,[6] and in contact lens cleaning solution under the trade name Purite.
Neuraltus Pharmaceuticals is investigating a drug that they refer to as NP001 for treatment of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.[7] Some people with ALS have concluded that NP001 is a formulation of sodium chlorite, and are ordering the chemical and self-dosing outside of any scientific study. Preliminary results suggest that this sodium chlorite treatment is less effective than NP001.

It is also used for disinfection of municipal water treatment plants after conversion to chlorine dioxide.
The EPA has set a maximum contaminant level of 1 milligram of chlorite per liter (1 mg/L) in drinking water.

 

[K_Z]

I think the children are also under a gag order and it's there to protect the state. Charge them with a crime or let them have their kids back.

BBM. This is being handed in family court, so they won't be charged with a crime.

A lot of people agree with you that abuse of children by their parents should be criminalized. Children are not treated by our laws as people with rights, IMO, but more often as possessions. Bio-parents have far more "rights" than their children do. If more parents were arrested when they beat, abuse, and neglect their kids, maybe fewer kids would end up dead. The same groups of people who so loudly advocate for parents to have even MORE laws and rights to do as they please with their bio kids, including beating them in the name of religion, fight tooth and nail to give fetuses more rights than living children, IMO. It's immensely hypocritical, IMO. I'll never, ever be able to understand that. (And I won't go any further off topic than that.)

If someone beats up a child on the street or in a school, it's a crime, LE arrest them, and they enter the judicial system. If a parent beats the *he!!* out of their OWN child, most often it ends up in family court, and it's a "domestic issue", handled by social workers, with few or no real penalties to the parent/s.

Frankly, after a 2 day court hearing, the children in this case were continued in foster care. From all reports, including the parents reports, the kids are doing well in foster care and are healthy and safe, and receiving education. And on the 12th, the court extended that temporary foster care situation by another 6 weeks. Something serious is going on, we just don't know the details.

The parents appear to be attempting to comply with the court's direction. They also have launched a very calculated and manipulative campaign on social media to control the conversation, tiptoe around the gag order, and deflect criticism from what they have been accused of doing at home. It's clear they don't agree with what the courts have determined about their conduct. They are perfectly willing to blame and vilify their own 2 teenagers in the media and in a number of interviews in past weeks! That's simply astonishing to me! I think that is quite worrisome on 2 levels-- worrisome about what the home environment and discipline situation might be like when and if those 2 teens return home, and whether or not it will even be possible for the parents to comply at a level that will allow them to regain custody.

The parents, IMO, need to shut down all the social media (and ask their friends to do that on their behalf), stop giving interviews, stop blaming their teenagers, and just work with their lawyers and the court ordered social services. Interviews and social media campaigns make the parents look vindictive, belligerant, and antisocial, IMO. Not a good image for parents who have lost custody of their children. They need to demonstrate that they are reasonable, rational, emotionally/ mentally stable, and focused on their children, IMO. Not ranting about religious persecution, homeschooling persecution, "aquaponics persecution", etc.

I have to wonder how much insight they have into their own behavior, since they are quick to blame everyone else for their situation. The Stanleys are pretty lucky they were not charged with any crimes, IMO-- imagine how much more complicated their situation would be in that case.

 

[Margo/Mom]

How something is marketed isn't the issue. There still has to be proof the product is being used in such a fashion that it is physically harming children. All the FDA did was issue a warning. For all I know, Hal Stanley heeded the warning and isn't giving it to his children. When the FDA issued the warning years ago to stop giving children aspirin, my husband and I immediately heeded the warning even though both of us grew-up with Bayer aspirin in the household.

JMO

Belle--you continue to overlook that the court has accepted as credible, allegations of abuse. Now, we are not privy to the court testimony, but we do know that there were two sessions, across two days, in which the DHS presented their evidence--including such credible allegations. The fact that WE have not seen evidence that the Stanleys were misusing the MMS does not mean that the court has seen none, or that there is none.

The Stanley parents, and their increasingly well-organized PR machine, would like us to believe that their children were kidnapped and are being held at county expense for nefarious purpose (to stamp our Christian parenting, home-schooling or back to the land philosophies; or the real crazies who think that the county is making money on the deal)--all because a benign substance was present in their house. This flies in the face of what many people know about the law and the functioning of child protective agencies. It also flies in the face of the money being made by Jim Humble and his Genesis II Church of Health and Healing (not to mention the total ban of his product in numerous countries, based on its danger to humans). It ignores the cautious statement to the press made by one of the older sons who suggests that nobody really knows what is going on in the minds of the younger children, as well as his acknowledgment that the Stanleys are not perfect parents and could probably use some help.

Now, the charge before the court is that of child abuse. We do not know all of what evidence has been brought before them, but two possibilities stand out. One is the presence (and likely use) of the MMS posing a danger to the children. The second is that of corporal punishment (Hal and Michelle both addressed "spanking" in their statements)--which according to Hal's recorded sermons he believes to be part and parcel of a "Biblical" upbringing. Now, given the Arkansas law, this may or may not be born out as constituting abuse. According to Michelle, there was a report that someone saw Hal slap one of the girls. Hitting the face is clearly identified as abuse. With regards to any beating about the hind quarters (with or without an instrument), it appears as though the law relies on whether the impact (pain and marking) was transient or lasting.

The Stanleys have legal representation and will have their day in court to counter the specifics. But, to continue to suggest that they are in court merely due to the "presence" in the home of a product, is simply naïve, or denial born of a desire to believe that governments are bad and self-declared "Biblical" parents are good.

 

[Margo/Mom]

I distrust censorship totally. I think gag orders in these cases hamper free speech. Let the parents speak out. They should have the right to speak out about what they feel is government intrusion into their lives Criticism of government should not be silenced. I'm also sick of CPS hiding behind the shield of confidentiality. Even when the kid dies, they cite confidentiality. Nonsense.

In fact, the authorities are bound by federal confidentiality laws--regardless of the gag order. So, removing the gag means that the Stanleys can be even more aggressive than they already have been in making claims about the process.

However, protection of victims is not without precedent. Newspapers, as a matter of ethics, typically refuse to name rape victims--unless their name has already been made public through some other means. FERPA and HIPAA, the two primary federal confidentiality laws work to prevent the sharing of inappropriate information between agencies (example--does a teacher need to know about a child's urinary tract infection, or whatnot) without permission. They also prevent loose talk on the part of a range of professionals who, through a professional contact, have intimate knowledge of people, particularly children.

Yes--such protections have sometimes been abused (example--a child is bullied on a school bus and the school withholds video of the incident from the parents because other students are in it), and challenged in court. But, I have also seen some rather shocking disclosures by the court systems in some states (Florida is particularly liberal in their open records--great for trial spectators, but rather shocking when considering what children are subject to in terms of press coverage of family issues).

 

[Margo/Mom]

I think the children are also under a gag order and it's there to protect the state. Charge them with a crime or let them have their kids back.

Ummmmm, and you know this, how?

 

[Margo/Mom]

I think the children are also under a gag order and it's there to protect the state. Charge them with a crime or let them have their kids back.

Ummmmm, and you know this, how?

 

[1&2&3]

As K_Z states in above thread ^^^^ regarding the parents vilifying their two teen-agers, I wonder if one of these teens is the strong willed, independent, mouthy child who has convinced the other teen to follow suit. Also, there are so many little ones, the oldest girl has had to be the "second mother" which has made her resentful. The oldest son probably has been recruited for garden work and has become tired of it.

That's what makes me wonder about the Stanley teens, if one is not the leader. Or even one of the children who has left the home may have been a difficult child and the teens are following their behavior. HS might be stricter in his discipline as he ages if he has had problems with an older child. I'm sorry, but with his age, his patience is likely to get shorter.

My opinions only!

 

[Yoda]

Well, its logic. If the purpose of the regulation is to minimize disruption to the kids but to maintain the status quo with respect to their education would mean to have them continue to receive education from the parents who are accused of abusing them, that wouldn't work.



I distrust censorship totally. I think gag orders in these cases hamper free speech. Let the parents speak out. They should have the right to speak out about what they feel is government intrusion into their lives Criticism of government should not be silenced. I'm also sick of CPS hiding behind the shield of confidentiality. Even when the kid dies, they cite confidentiality. Nonsense.

Im sensitive about these things. My grandparents and my mom were subject to foreign Nazi rule in Holland and had to risk their lives to access information via illegal radios and newspapers. And on my dads side, my great grandfather was assassinated by the fascist Franco dictatorship and his son, my beloved grandfather, became an ardent socialist as a result and was imprisoned for that. And threatened with death. He warned me to be careful to never write anything about politics for fear I could be persecuted for my words at a later date. Not even in a letter.

Fear.

Censorship is the enemy of freedom and liberty from oppression. No matter what your political persuasion.

Nope. Gag orders are wrong.

Honest Question- What is the purpose of a gag order in situations like this? Is it for the children's, parent's, or government's benefit? TIA