AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

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Honest Question- What is the purpose of a gag order in situations like this? Is it for the children's, parent's, or government's benefit? TIA

Surely it is to protect the vulnerable children. Some of the things that happen to abused children could be very embarrassing to them if those things were made public. We don't know for sure what has happened here, but a child wouldn't want it known that his parents had forced enemas on him/her. Or that a parent had administered bare buttocks beatings.

Rape victims are usually shielded from having the precise details of their ordeals made public. Unfortunately, there are members of the public who laciviously enjoy such details, and what (may have) happened to these kids would provide sick enjoyment to some.
 
Edited to remove Facebook link and quoted text. I apologize for quoting facebook. Basically the "Stand up for the Stanleys" page is trying to get the Duggar's involved.

Wow, that would be something if the Duggars got involved.
 
Ummmmm, and you know this, how?

Ummmmmmmmm, I never said I knew it, I said I thought it and still do. Have you seen any interviews with any of them? No? I wonder why not if there's no gag order on them. The absence of any interviews leads me to believe in the existance of a gag order on them. IMO.
 
Ummmmmmmmm, I never said I knew it, I said I thought it and still do. Have you seen any interviews with any of them? No? I wonder why not if there's no gag order on them. The absence of any interviews leads me to believe, IMO that they have a gag order on them.

If by "them" you mean the DHS, Sheriff, etc, they most certainly are restricted in what they can say. They are limited by FERPA and HIPAA. There has been one statement, which responded to information that the family had already made public regarding the MMS. That statement only said that MMS was only one factor among many. And that was prior to the gag order.
 
From the Standing with the Stanleys page https://www.facebook.com/standingwiththestanleys

Wow, that would be something if the Duggars got involved.

Wow, I hope they don't. I saw that a day or so ago. I seriously doubt the Duggars would get involved with this-- they have a very lucrative TV contract to protect, as well as the financial empire they've built on their celebrity success. And what could they do anyway? They're just TV personalities/ celebrities. I doubt they'd hitch their $$ and reputation to a family who have had their children removed for allegations of abuse. They would be very foolish to do that, IMO.

The Stanley's best bet for help continues to be their own lawyers, as well as social workers, and mental health professionals, IMO. There is nothing preventing them from hiring their own independent counselors, social workers, and psychologists to help them deal with the accusations against them, and help represent them in the family court process. They really need to step away from viewing this as religious persecution, IMO, because they won't make any headway with that angle.

And just a comment about the social networking and fundraising sites. In the past, WS didn't permit linking to social media posts, and considered them rumor. They have modified that approach somewhat in recent months, and have allowed posts to summarize or paraphrase what has been posted, and refer to the sites indirectly, but I believe they've continued to ask us not to link to FB and fundraising sites. We can discuss them, just not copy/ paste and link. Perhaps a mod will stop by and clarify on this if I have it wrong. I know not everyone may know about this, especially newer posters, so maybe we should get it clarified.
 
From the Standing with the Stanleys page https://www.facebook.com/standingwiththestanleys

Wow, that would be something if the Duggars got involved.

Well, maybe. There have also been calls for the Duck Dynasty family to get involved. All predicated on the belief that the Stanleys are in trouble because the home school or are raising their children "Biblically."

Let me offer up a couple of things to think about. One is the Duggar's connection (however loose) to the Gothard Institute (AKA Institute of Basic Life Principles AKA Advanced Training Institute). Among Gothard's accomplishments is the provision of home school curriculum. Another is a long stream of young people educated/indoctrinated through his programs. Another is his recent removal from a position of authority due to decades of sexual abuse, enabled not only by his position of authority, but also institutionalized within his institute's teachers. One young man's story is told here: http://micahjmurray.com/bill-gothard-homeschool-cult/. Pay particular attention to all the smiling faces and healthy-looking young folks.

The other is a recent wariness on the part of the Home School Legal Defense Association when it comes to blanket defenses of everyone who home schools on the presumption that they are uniquely vulnerable to false accusations of abuse. There have been a lot of suggestions that HSLDA be called into this case, and apparently when approached they demurred unless educational neglect becomes an actual issue. HSLDA has frankly been burned several times lately (in addition to Mr. Gothard, there have been some cases that they supported in Germany) where home schooling served (intentionally or not) to mask abuse of children. There have also been several deaths in the Quiverful/home school/fundamentalist community owing to an over application of patriarchal authority in the realm of corporal punishment. HSLDA has issued a clarifying statement here: http://www.hslda.org/courtreport/V30N2/V30N202.asp
 
If by "them" you mean the DHS, Sheriff, etc, they most certainly are restricted in what they can say. They are limited by FERPA and HIPAA. There has been one statement, which responded to information that the family had already made public regarding the MMS. That statement only said that MMS was only one factor among many. And that was prior to the gag order.

We were talking about the kids. There haven't been any interviews with them (the kids) so it's my opinion that they too have a gag order.
 
We were talking about the kids. There haven't been any interviews with them (the kids) so it's my opinion that they too have a gag order.

Access to the kids would be through the foster parents. And I cannot imagine that they would routinely be permitted to expose foster kids to the press. One of the college-going kids made a statement, in which he cautiously suggested that perhaps his parents could use some assistance in being better parents.
 
Access to the kids would be through the foster parents. And I cannot imagine that they would routinely be permitted to expose foster kids to the press. One of the college-going kids made a statement, in which he cautiously suggested that perhaps his parents could use some assistance in being better parents.

A gag is a gag is a gag. These aren't toddlers. I'll cautiously suggest that all parents could use some assistance in being better parents, none of us being perfect. Shall we take everyone's children away and raise them by the state? I'll come back to an old question....what have they been charged with?
 
A gag is a gag is a gag. These aren't toddlers. I'll cautiously suggest that all parents could use some assistance in being better parents, none of us being perfect. Shall we take everyone's children away and raise them by the state? I'll come back to an old question....what have they been charged with?

Asked and answered, friend.
 
A gag is a gag is a gag. These aren't toddlers. I'll cautiously suggest that all parents could use some assistance in being better parents, none of us being perfect. Shall we take everyone's children away and raise them by the state? I'll come back to an old question....what have they been charged with?

Haven't been charged with nuthin' and I doubt they will be. I believe you are right, a gag is a gag and I also believe the State is hiding behind the gag order because they screwed up royally.

JMO
 
Well, maybe. There have also been calls for the Duck Dynasty family to get involved. All predicated on the belief that the Stanleys are in trouble because the home school or are raising their children "Biblically."

Let me offer up a couple of things to think about. One is the Duggar's connection (however loose) to the Gothard Institute (AKA Institute of Basic Life Principles AKA Advanced Training Institute). Among Gothard's accomplishments is the provision of home school curriculum. Another is a long stream of young people educated/indoctrinated through his programs. Another is his recent removal from a position of authority due to decades of sexual abuse, enabled not only by his position of authority, but also institutionalized within his institute's teachers. One young man's story is told here: http://micahjmurray.com/bill-gothard-homeschool-cult/. Pay particular attention to all the smiling faces and healthy-looking young folks.

The other is a recent wariness on the part of the Home School Legal Defense Association when it comes to blanket defenses of everyone who home schools on the presumption that they are uniquely vulnerable to false accusations of abuse. There have been a lot of suggestions that HSLDA be called into this case, and apparently when approached they demurred unless educational neglect becomes an actual issue. HSLDA has frankly been burned several times lately (in addition to Mr. Gothard, there have been some cases that they supported in Germany) where home schooling served (intentionally or not) to mask abuse of children. There have also been several deaths in the Quiverful/home school/fundamentalist community owing to an over application of patriarchal authority in the realm of corporal punishment. HSLDA has issued a clarifying statement here: http://www.hslda.org/courtreport/V30N2/V30N202.asp

Gothard has absolutely nothing to do with this case but I can see why the Duggars might get involved. I'm not a fan of the Duggars or their right-wing moral and political agenda but they do have a fan base and a case like the Stanleys will grow it. The Duggars not only live in Arkansas, the Duggars are very active politically. Jim Bob Duggar has served in the legislature and ran for the Senate.

Hal Stanley is a retired Southern Baptist minister. There is nothing that suggests he is the leader of a cult or that his children are sexually abused. Corporal punishment is allowed in Arkansas public schools and that won't change because the majority of voters share the Christian belief that sparing the rod will spoil the child.

I can't think of a better way Josh Duggar can push forth the right-wing political and moral agenda of less government than to have a state government agency intrude, disrupt and divide an Arkansas family, not give a reason for it and hide behind a gag order.

http://www.frcaction.org/about-us

JMO
 
Haven't been charged with nuthin' and I doubt they will be. I believe you are right, a gag is a gag and I also believe the State is hiding behind the gag order because they screwed up royally.

JMO

Just curious--are you advocating that the press have unlimited access to children in foster care?
 
Just curious--are you advocating that the press have unlimited access to children in foster care?

I advocate that all children have freedom of speech and that includes access to the press if they wish.
 
MyBelle--I have been doing some looking into MMS, why the FDA has taken a stand against it, who is marketing it and how as well as the "recommended" uses coming from the folks who are pushing it as a cure.

MMS, which is Sodium Chlorite (forgive my lack of chemistry background), which has legitimate uses in sanitation, etc, depending on things like how it is "activiated" (typically through the addition of an acid--which turns it into the equivalent of industrial bleach) and the level of concentration. The chief guru of this market (selling under the name of Miracle Mineral Solution) is a guy by the name of Jim Humble--who has various charges against him for fraud, smuggling, etc, in this country. He also fancies himself Bishop (of his own church, of course) and operates, I believe, out of Haiti. He is also attempting to open up new markets in Australia and Ireland--although he has met some governmental challenges there.

Among the claims he makes about MMS is that it cures HIV, cancer, autism, parasites, ebola and a slew of other non-related illnesses. His claim is that it can distinguish between good stuff and bad stuff in the body. Needless to say there is not one shred of scientific evidence to back any of his claims (which supporters claim is a result of the government and "big pharma" suppressing the evidence so they can make money selling their own treatments). Taken at the recommended levels, the chemical mix is dangerous if taken internally.

Now if you have the stomach for it, you can read some of the discussions of folks who are actually using it anyway (on themselves OR their children). The recommendations for use are to start with the recommended dose and increase it until it results in fever/nausea, etc (which is supposed to signal the illness leaving the body) and somehow play around with that line. The truly frightening cases involve how it is being sold among other snake oil remedies to desperate parents of children on the autism spectrum. The charlatans explain that autistic behaviors result from persistent parasites which can be treated through MMS enemas. Again--start with the recommended dose, increasing concentration and frequency until there is evidence of the parasites "leaving the body." On some discussion boards parents actually post pictures of what they believe to be "worms" found in their child's stool. It is actually (based on tests) the mucosal lining of the bowel being washed out by the bleach in the enemas.

Sorry to be so graphic, but this is what goes with the "off-label" usages.

The critical question would be if DHS had some information suggesting that MMS was not only present, but that it was being given to the children. The parents say no--however we have a Court ruling that accepts as credible some testimony regarding physical abuse. So--given the claims about what was contained in the warrant (all coming directly from the Stanleys), it seems not unreasonable to keep on the table a possibility that the Stanleys were doing more than "purifying the water for the hydroponics." As well as the Stanleys' discussions of corporal punishment, which may well have exceeded Arkansas legal limitations--which are not particularly limiting. However, I do recall a claim that a neighbor may have made (according to the Stanleys) that Hal had slapped one of the girls (blows to the face are specifically mentioned in the law). Based on Hal's sermons, he believes in chastising with a rod--however I didn't see anything in the Arkansas law to outlaw hitting with something other than an open hand (although a closed fist is not allowed). So the standard there would be whether there was more than transient pain or transient discoloration (apparently reddening is OK, bruising is not).
Thank you for all your information! I just wanted to add that in my state, Oregon, it's, unfortunately, legal to strike your child with an object. It is only considered abuse if a mark is left behind. So essentially, kids who don't bruise easily can be beaten worse than a child who does bruise easily and according to the state of Oregon the bruised one was abused and the other not. I'm not sure if there's any specific laws here regarding facial striking versus hitting the body.
 
I don't think most parents want their children to have lengthy personal conversations with a stranger, particularly one who will report the conversation to the general public. Several of the Stanley children appear to be under ten years old. Their right to have freedom of speech is not absolute. I, personally, would love to hear what those children have to say, but I don't think I'm entitled to.
 
I don't think most parents want their children to have lengthy personal conversations with a stranger, particularly one who will report the conversation to the general public. Several of the Stanley children appear to be under ten years old. Their right to have freedom of speech is not absolute. I, personally, would love to hear what those children have to say, but I don't think I'm entitled to.

Agreed! I also don't think speaking to the press would be in their best interest, and they are too young to understand the ramifications of doing so, I believe that their best interests must be protected.
 
There are those less concerned about the children's best interest unless it serves the parents' best interest, which to me appears to be presenting themselves as persecuted innocents. So unless the children are prepared to back that up, I highly doubt those parents want them talking to anyone, including those tasked with investigating the abuse allegations. MOO JMO IMO etc.
 
There are those less concerned about the children's best interest unless it serves the parents' best interest, which to me appears to be presenting themselves as persecuted innocents. So unless the children are prepared to back that up, I highly doubt those parents want them talking to anyone, including those tasked with investigating the abuse allegations. MOO JMO IMO etc.

Considering the parents' willingness to immediately throw their 'rebellious teens' under the bus, I'm fairly certain they don't want the kids sharing stories with the press.

BTW--I believe that the gag order applies to the court procedings. Have the kids been present in court?
 
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