Found Deceased AR - John Glasgow, 45, Little Rock, 28 January 2008

[arkansasmimi]

I agree with Mrs PC here:

The area where JG was found is off Red Bluff Dr. and is actually about 2.8 miles by vehicle from where his vehicle was parked at Mather Lodge - so his remains were much further away than what most news reports were saying. And if you look at Red Bluff Dr. on Google street view - it's basically a very isolated dirt road that winds around the upper west most portion of Petit Jean State Park. I've read several articles that state this area is the least visited area of the park due to the isolation, rugged & rocky terrain. From this street view you would take this road about 1 1/2 miles to the area near the bluff where he was found. And going the opposite direction is about 1 1/2 miles to get to Mather Lodge. (when you turn back & go in the direction of Mather Lodge there is a brown wooden roadway sign that points out the various directions to places and you veer to the right to get to the Lodge.)

https://maps.google.com/maps?output=classic&dg=brw

I do not believe that JG hiked way over to this area from Mather Lodge. I think it's possible someone else took him to Red Bluff Dr and pushed/threw him off the bluff there. But, I have no clue what the medical examiner will say yet....I'm only speculating.

here's a map from news reports http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ttle-Rock-28-Jan-2008&p=11606358#post11606358

 

[arkansasmimi]

Another thing, I don't understand, why did JG leave the phone taping device on his office phone? I would have thought he would have removed it. According to things I have read and posted here, it was still on his wk phone when he went missing.

Yes still curious about his car keys..

 

[arkansasmimi]

IMO, he suspected he wasn't coming back *if* he did indeed write that info on the note pad before he left.

Do we have definitive information that the car was wiped clean of prints, or they just couldn't find any?

Either a) he met someone there for some reason and was told not to tell anyone, and it turned sour, b) he traveled WITH someone there, or c) he went there by himself and knew he wouldn't be coming back.

I just don't see how he could have committed suicide. He parked at the lodge, and where he was found...he would have had to take a very strenuous hike up and then...what, fall? Take pills and then somehow later on the bones fall? I don't know how they were found to make a good assumption there, but from what I have gathered, it seems more likely that he was up on that road by where they found him. That, to me, sounds like someone dropped his body off and parked his car afterward, or he got into someone else's car to go somewhere nearby and didn't make it back. (But his stuff was all together in the back seat, which is a big "hmmm" to me).

My own opinions.

Have they still not found his keys?

All I know about what they found in the car as far as prints and so forth is from the papers that were filed to have him declared dead: https://contexte.aoc.arkansas.gov/imaging/IMAGES/DMS/CK_Image.Present2?DMS_ID=60100022149008

JG calling his lawyer, which was ALSO the lawyer that was used by (slept since I last read, but it was either same lawyer that CDI used or Dillards) either way it was one of them, was told to just keep head down... after that's when she started taping his wk phone. IIRC week prior to him becoming missing... Too many strange things for me. I changed my thoughts after going back and finding all the old articles. I am feeling like he went off the side of that mountain ... off of Red Bluff Drive... Not that he hiked there either.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Question for those that suspect murder. How would someone get a dead body that far down that trail? If he had simply been dropped from above, dont you think it would be likely that there were some broken bones or other skeletal trauma?

Or do you think they marched him out there at gunpoint and killed him there?

That is my biggest peoblem with the muder theory. Either scenario seems like it would have been way too risky because even though it's rough terrain, it is not really all that isolated. Anyone could have been out there hiking...kwim? Very big risk of being seen, right?

If they hadn't stated the area being so close to a road, I think I could have been more bending another direction.

This was from Mrs PC comment but it is what has been stated by authorities :
the skull was found approx 150 yds off Red Bluff Dr and was approx 587 yards (1/3 mile) from any trail. The bulk of the remains (with clothing) found later were found on a rock shelf 200 yds south of where the skull was found.

No telling actually who did or didn't see anything... Public wasn't made aware of anything until Thursday. And especially with the car being found where it was, even if someone had seen someone on Red Bluff Drive, 7 yrs ago they wouldn't think anything about it most likely. There is also a look out area on that road. http://www.petitjeanstatepark.com/things_to_do/trails-detail.aspx?id=152

The Mary Ann Richter Overlook on Red Bluff Drive
http://www.arkansasstateparks.com/images/pdfs/PJMTN tour.pdf

 

[allmybecsloveme]

Re-watching the episode. There was no scent trail found by dogs coming from his car at the lodge in any direction. Also very odd.

 

[Sutton]

Here are the reasons I think JG was murdered:
1. He was being set up as, at worst, a fraud, and at best, an incompetent scapegoat at work.
2. He knew he was neither of those things. He knew his actions were in accordance with GAAP and with deals previously made between CDI and Dillard's. This is evidenced by the email he sent to his boss containing proposed text directed at Bill Dillard.
3. He tapped his phones and left them tapped.
4. He left very early the morning of his disappearance and switched his phone off.
5. He had no reason to kill himself (not that a reason is needed, but no financial problems, no relationship problems).
6. He was a man seemingly worried about his character and reputation. He was known for doing the right thing. Killing himself during all this turmoil would making his legacy be a man who possibly participated in some type of fraud.
7. No scent trail coming from his car at the lodge.
There's surely more things I'm not thinking of right now. And there are reasons pointing to suicide as well...maybe someone else can list those?
While I do thing foul play is most likely, I am not completely convinced.
ETA: I guess #4 could be considered an argument for suicide...I just don't know many who bop up out of bed (or couch) bright and early to kill themselves on a cold hiking trail. But I don't really know the statistics, so maybe early morning is a common time for suicide.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Here are the reasons I think JG was murdered:
1. He was being set up as, at worst, a fraud, and at best, an incompetent scapegoat at work.
2. He knew he was neither of those things. He knew his actions were in accordance with GAAP and with deals previously made between CDI and Dillard's. This is evidenced by the email he sent to his boss containing proposed text directed at Bill Dillard.
3. He tapped his phones and left them tapped.
4. He left very early the morning of his disappearance and switched his phone off.
5. He had no reason to kill himself (not that a reason is needed, but no financial problems, no relationship problems).
6. He was a man seemingly worried about his character and reputation. He was known for doing the right thing. Killing himself during all this turmoil would making his legacy be a man who possibly participated in some type of fraud.
7. No scent trail coming from his car at the lodge.
There's surely more things I'm not thinking of right now. And there are reasons pointing to suicide as well...maybe someone else can list those?
While I do thing foul play is most likely, I am not completely convinced.
ETA: I guess #4 could be considered an argument for suicide...I just don't know many who bop up out of bed (or couch) bright and early to kill themselves on a cold hiking trail. But I don't really know the statistics, so maybe early morning is a common time for suicide.

#4 I don't remember reading that his phone was turned off. I do remb that the battery was dead when they found it in the bad in his car.

 

[Sutton]

#4 I don't remember reading that his phone was turned off. I do remb that the battery was dead when they found it in the bad in his car.

You are right. I just reread through some articles and there are no reports that the phone was turned off, only that the battery was dead.

 

[Oasis]

The car keys were not found.

 

[jstkiddn]

I know I've been heavily leaning towards suicide, but the car keys are a very interesting point.

If my theory were to be true, then if the keys were not in the car, then they would have to be with or around the remains. I know looking for them in the woods would be literally like looking for a needle in a haystack, but surely the police combed the area thoroughly with metal detectors. If the remains were found pretty much together and not scattered over a large area, then the keys should be right there in the immediate vicinity, if not in the pocket of the pants.

If they really have not been located, then that is quite.....odd.

Then again, if someone were to plant the car at Mather Lodge, then why bother taking the keys? Oversight?

 

[justathought]

The keys bother me but the other thing I would like to know, which I've mentioned before, ...is what kind of shoes was he wearing? I would think he wore either dress shoes or loafers to work.....Being somewhat familiar with the terrain and where he was found, I just don't think he hiked there. If he wasn't wearing tennis shoes or hiking boots, pretty much a given he didn't hike there. Even on the trails close to Mather Lodge to get to where he was found, there are very slick rocky places one has to traverse. Cause of death undetermined, I think, would rule out a fall, since apparently there were no broken bones.

 

[GrilledCheezy]

The keys bother me but the other thing I would like to know, which I've mentioned before, ...is what kind of shoes was he wearing? I would think he wore either dress shoes or loafers to work.....Being somewhat familiar with the terrain and where he was found, I just don't think he hiked there. If he wasn't wearing tennis shoes or hiking boots, pretty much a given he didn't hike there. Even on the trails close to Mather Lodge to get to where he was found, there are very slick rocky places one has to traverse. Cause of death undetermined, I think, would rule out a fall, since apparently there were no broken bones.

Excellent point! I hadn't thought of that.

 

[soooblessed]

Anyone who is determined to conclude this is suicide can say the shoes he was wearing doesn't matter as someone who is suicidal may not think about the type of shoes he was wearing.
But if they cannot locate the keys, no broken bones from a fall, and there being no way he could hike from the location of his car to wear he was found in the shoes he was wearing...

Seriously, the fact that he was even up there that morning, in the winter, prints wiped clean on a car found far away from his body that did not fall...suicide is getting harder and harder to reasonably consider as what happened.

He also tapped his own phone...not because he was a paranoid schizophrenic


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[jstkiddn]

Anyone who is determined to conclude this is suicide can say the shoes he was wearing doesn't matter as someone who is suicidal may not think about the type of shoes he was wearing.
But if they cannot locate the keys, no broken bones from a fall, and there being no way he could hike from the location of his car to wear he was found in the shoes he was wearing...

Seriously, the fact that he was even up there that morning, in the winter, prints wiped clean on a car found far away from his body that did not fall...suicide is getting harder and harder to reasonably consider as what happened.

He also tapped his own phone...not because he was a paranoid schizophrenic


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Wait...do we know what kind of shoes was he wearing?

 

[soooblessed]

We don't know what kind of shoes he was wearing


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[soooblessed]

Has anyone seen a description of the clothing? No one saw him that morning, but I'm sure his wife could tell if his tennis shoes were at home or not. Cops must have that info but i can't recall if it was released


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[justathought]

To expand, my point was sort of this, there are places on Petit Jean with overlooks and some nice car parks. Cars parked there with no people around wouldn't mean anything because of hiking trails nearby. So if one was so inclined, one could "do the deed" without anyone seeing if timed right and no one coming to the spot latter would be distressed about seeing an empty parked car. The car would be noted at some point by park rangers, however. The car was more unobtrusive at Mather Lodge for true. Heck, he could have jumped right there from the lodge...maybe seen, maybe not. It was January. To be sure, he could have parked closer to where the body was found. However, to park where the car was and to hike to where he was...is called a "hard " hours long hike to make the loop, he was roughly half way. "Hard" is the term I think they used on the Petit Jean website describing the various hikes. To go that far, with that degree of difficulty in typical office shoes over wet rocks, etc. just wouldn't have been necessary. Point 6 by Sutton (above) weighs with me.

 

[snowleopard]

Thanks just, you voiced my thoughts....If there are no broken bones, and no head wound, are we to believe he took some poison and sat down to die near the base of a cliff in a remote park?

 

[arkansasmimi]

CDI/Dillards KNEW that JG was taping his office phone:

Snip>>>>
The story also notes that Glasgow's family is seeking more information from CDI, but has been unable to get it.

"Desperate to learn what happened, Roger Glasgow says his family would like to examine John's desktop hard drive to check his emails and Google searches," the story says.

"They also want to review the records of the calls on his landline at CDI and listen to the tape Glasgow used when he tapped that phone. But so far, CDI has not turned over those items, says Roger, who blames Dillard's because of its control over the company."
http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article/40570/portfolio-magazine-publishes-john-glasgow-story

 

[arkansasmimi]

Jstkiddin:Then again, if someone were to plant the car at Mather Lodge, then why bother taking the keys? Oversight?

^^snipped.... :thinking: to make someone think JG took them with him when he "left" the car? JMO, had they been IN the car would have been more of a flag. Also if someone else had driven the car there, their prints? The car unlocked with all that stuff in the bag, make me curious if someone was hoping the bag would be stolen from the veh.. JMO

The keys bother me but the other thing I would like to know, which I've mentioned before, ...is what kind of shoes was he wearing? I would think he wore either dress shoes or loafers to work.....Being somewhat familiar with the terrain and where he was found, I just don't think he hiked there. If he wasn't wearing tennis shoes or hiking boots, pretty much a given he didn't hike there. Even on the trails close to Mather Lodge to get to where he was found, there are very slick rocky places one has to traverse. Cause of death undetermined, I think, would rule out a fall, since apparently there were no broken bones.

From Petition to have JG declared dead: https://contexte.aoc.arkansas.gov/imaging/IMAGES/DMS/CK_Image.Present2?DMS_ID=60100022149008

page 4

11. During this same time, family and authorities searched John's home to determine what he had been wearing and what might he might have taken with him when he left his house. As best as it could be determined, John was wearing khaki pants, "walking" shoes and a green down jacket. Other than what was found in his vehicle, he took nothing with him but his wallet and a watch.

***I am curious if his wedding band, watch and also if his keys were found. I along with everyone else haven't seen "KEYS". Curious also if his shoes were located. I did read that bones were found inside the clothing.. critters could have carried off shoes I suppose. Watch and ring, could have been scattered with bones. But still curious since they did an extensive search.

And Undetermined, to me means they were unable to determine. Doesn't rule out a fall (to me but I am not trained for that kind of stuff) and we don't know if any bones were broken.

A natural death occurs as a result of aging, illness, or disease. An accidental death occurs when an injury or poisoning causes death, but it is unintentional. In this case, there can be no evidence supporting the idea that the poisoning or injury occurred with an intent to harm or cause death. A suicide results from an injury or poisoning occurring from a deliberate, self-inflicted act committed to harm or cause death to oneself. A homicide occurs when death is caused by another person. Undetermined is used as a classification when the information pointing toward one manner of death is no more compelling than any others. A pending death is one that is waiting on more evidence or analysis before the examiner can make a determination.