GUILTY AR - Malik Drummond, 2, Searcy, 23 Nov 2014 - #2

[MsMarple]

BBM

That description makes it sound like a witness saw him outside. Is that correct?

Is this the Mcdonalds sighting? I need to catch up.

AFAIK, according to LE and msm the last time Malik was seen was at the dad's house Sunday evening at 5:45 by him and his girlfriend. Police questioned neighbors and no one had seen Malik.

Right now, any prior or subsequent sightings would be rumor only. There was some discussion here earlier where we were wondering if anyone other than dad or g/f had seen Malik before Sunday. It was all speculation.

 

[margarita25]

So here's some of what we know so far:

From the November 24 press conference* early information was that:

• Malik and his sister were visiting dad and g/f and may have been there for a couple of weeks.

• On the evening that Malik disappeared the g/f was bathing a different child and dad was sleeping somewhere, leaving the twins alone in the livingroom.

• Malik was last seen by the g/f at 5:45. For approximately 30 minutes the twins were by themselves in the livingroom, which means they searched for Malik for about 15 minutes before calling police at 6:30 pm.

• A door to door search by police revealed that none of the neighbors had seen Malik.

======
Since November 24:

• The bio mom took the twin sister to be forensically interviewed – the girl had nothing to say.

• LE gave the dad and g/f polygraphs – the results haven't been released but one msm reported the g/f saying she was told she failed some questions. Truth or rumor?

• December 2. Following a tip searchers went to Riverside Park where a cadaver dog hit on the boat landing. Police brought in their own cadaver dog to verify the hit.

• Searchers combed that area both in the Little Red River (using divers) and around the boat landing for approximately 2 days. That search has ended.

• No search warrants have been executed. Family is declining interviews at this time.

Searcy PD's Twitter assures us they are continuing to investigate.

Searcy Police Dept.*@SearcyPD*·*Dec 3
Facts: 1 Malik is still missing. 2 Searcy Police, WCSO, ASP, FBI, & othr agencies diligently searching/investigating #FindMalik 501-268-3531

https://twitter.com/SearcyPD


*Of course, it's important to keep in mind that this early report isn't necessarily written in stone. We don't know who took the adults' statements so it's possible that Chief Clark was relying on a responding officer's report, and like the game of 'telephone,' things can get mixed up.

Again, good stuff MsMarple.

Question, didn't we see somewhere that the dad was sleeping in the same room where the twins were playing? Or did I imagine this? If this is legit, maybe we can add it to your wonderful synopsis above? (If this is brainfart on my part, please disregard). Thanks!!!

Also, maybe we can add the part about the bio mom taking the other twin to the doc?

 

[EGirl]

Again, good stuff MsMarple.

Question, didn't we see somewhere that the dad was sleeping in the same room where the twins were playing? Or did I imagine this? If this is legit, maybe we can add it to your wonderful synopsis above? (If this is brainfart on my part, please disregard). Thanks!!!

Also, maybe we can add the part about the bio mom taking the other twin to the doc?

BBM I am still confused by this... some articles early on stated that twin sister was with bio mom going to doc appt, not with dad and twin brother. But other articles say twin sister was also with dad and fg??

 

[MsMarple]

Yeah, this case is a little maddening with all the different reports!

I left off those rumors because I couldn't find any confirmation from LE.

Early reports had dad sleeping in the bedroom, then in the livingroom. LE said the twins were alone in the livingroom so I took it at face value.

Same with the bio mom having the girl twin at the doctor. I think that was only reported once and when I looked for it the article was gone. I'm pretty sure that was just erroneously reported.

According to the first report by LE both twins were alone in the livingroom so I decided to stick with that until we hear differently. Searcy PD posted something on either Twitter or FB about believe only what you read on their site so I'm trying to honor that.

I wish LE would hold another presser to clarify some of this.

 

[margarita25]

So, my question is who's phones have pinged where, and when.

 

[FindHG]

So, my question is who's phones have pinged where, and when.

Who called whom when after 5:45, at least, LE would hopefully know, by now. I still can't wrap my head around the various scenarios. Can't wait for sarx to pitch in on the hits by the dogs.

 

[MsMarple]

Sorry for the delay in coming to the thread. Just saw the PM! I'll try and catch up now. Or has someone already helped with the SAR questions?

Hi, sarx! Thank you for stopping by - we're burning up with questions! Here are mine:

1. Can cadaver dogs hit on a specific individual's remains?

2. If a body was put into a river is there a way to estimate how far the current would move it over a period of time such as (hypothetically) 10 to 20 days?

3. If the river was stocked with several kinds of fish, how would that impact decomposition?

Many thanks in advance!

 

[margarita25]

Hi, sarx! Thank you for stopping by - we're burning up with questions! Here are mine:

1. Can cadaver dogs hit on a specific individual's remains?

2. If a body was put into a river is there a way to estimate how far the current would move it over a period of time such as (hypothetically) 10 to 20 days?

3. If the river was stocked with several kinds of fish, how would that impact decomposition?

Many thanks in advance!

There is also a looooot of info about dogs and water searches in Dylan Redwine's WS threads.

 

[margarita25]

Who called whom when after 5:45, at least, LE would hopefully know, by now. I still can't wrap my head around the various scenarios. Can't wait for sarx to pitch in on the hits by the dogs.

And especially before, like Sat and Sun. Shoot, the whole 2 weeks...
(Has the bio mom said when she last saw him/spoke to him? Tia. For some reason I'm having a hard time keeping the details straight in this case...)

 

[kimi_SFC]

Yeah, this case is a little maddening with all the different reports!

I left off those rumors because I couldn't find any confirmation from LE.

Early reports had dad sleeping in the bedroom, then in the livingroom. LE said the twins were alone in the livingroom so I took it at face value.

Same with the bio mom having the girl twin at the doctor. I think that was only reported once and when I looked for it the article was gone. I'm pretty sure that was just erroneously reported.

According to the first report by LE both twins were alone in the livingroom so I decided to stick with that until we hear differently. Searcy PD posted something on either Twitter or FB about believe only what you read on their site so I'm trying to honor that.

I wish LE would hold another presser to clarify some of this.

RBBM

MsMarple, :tyou: for putting together the working timeline. The BBM definitely makes everything about sleuthing the timeline, heck this entire case, extremely challenging! :sigh:

I'm hopeful that Searcy PD is working just has diligently behind the scenes as they did during their SAR efforts in the water. I have been thoroughly impressed with their updates via social media - something we don't always see in other cases. It appears they are thoroughly vested in Malik's disappearance, and are willing to interact regularly with the public. This is a good thing JMO).

I know sarx has a lot of info to go through in this and the last thread, and new questions are now being posted, so it will be worth the wait when those answers come.

So thankful I have y'all to go crazy with worry with. :grouphug:

:gathering:

#FindMalik


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[sarx]

Hi, sarx! Thank you for stopping by - we're burning up with questions! Here are mine:

1. Can cadaver dogs hit on a specific individual's remains?

2. If a body was put into a river is there a way to estimate how far the current would move it over a period of time such as (hypothetically) 10 to 20 days?

3. If the river was stocked with several kinds of fish, how would that impact decomposition?

Many thanks in advance!

Ok, after a very rough night at home with a sick kitty (that went down right after I posted on here, so sorry for disappearing), I think I can catch up.

To try and answer these for starters and then I'll go backwards.

1. The short answer is that there are a few dogs who are working on this, but it is still really new and not common at all and really has not been tested to be "acceptable". So, yes it is possible, but no, there aren't many dogs at all as it's kinda experimental I guess you could say.

2. While it isn't going to be exact, yes, you can get together with NOAA, pull river flow data, do a bunch of math, look at the topography of a river/stream, the temperature of the water, the weight of the body and so on and estimate the max distance a body could have gotten. This is less than exact, because this can give you the max likely distance. Then you have to throw in variables like snags, rocks, and whether the body for free, weighted, in something and you end up with a less than exact #.

3. I'm not an expert in this one, but from what I have seen, it can affect in minimally but not picked clean, again though, not an expert.

 

[sarx]

Ok, now back to page one.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Ok, now back to page one.

:tyou: SO much sarx! I hope your kitty feels better soon!

:yourock:



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[caveat]

sarx, thank you for joining us!

So it sounds like the cadaver dogs alerting at the boat ramp just indicates a likelihood of a deceased person there at some point, with no real indicators of how long ago it might have happened (and no indication of the identity, of course, based on your #1 response).

I imagine that lingering scents can really confound an investigation at times. This scent could be from someone months or even years ago, right?

 

[sarx]

I asked before, but wasn't answered. If Malik walked in that park, would dogs still find his scent?

It depends on what the dogs train and practice on.

Most dogs work trails in the 1-5 day range.
A good chunk will work trails up to 7 days.
A few will work up to 10 and even less up to 14.

All of these are dependent on conditions (weather, surface, etc)

After 14 days, honestly the results get really iffy, those are more of a "we can try, and if we get lucky great, but don't count it as a confirmation of anything unless we find the MP" situation.
Yes, there are some out there who claim to work month-months old trails. I'll just leave that one alone.

 

[sarx]

First night he went missing, two neighbors told a reporter their dog had a bit of training, it was late into the night, that their dog had followed the little boys scent to a play park, then nothing else, no other trail. They said it may have been the dog just following the little Malik Drummond's scent where he'd played before. sorry, will keep looking for link.

It is very possible for a green dog to be on a trail but not the freshest one (this is why you train in sterile areas (where the person you are trailing has not been) to start. Later you add that in, but not in the beginning.

 

[sarx]

New Article posted in the Christina Morris case by Brittany Feagans @bf_starnews says this about the cadaver dogs if this is helpful. Quote is from the PI:

“When you die, you immediately start decomposing. It’s a sweet smell, and only the dogs can pick up that smell,” said Boudreaux, hired by the Morris family in mid-October. “Dogs can smell it for up to 30 years, because the smell is given off for [that long].”

There are actually dogs that are trained for archaeological purposes who can find buried remains thousands of years old.

 

[sarx]

***I AM NOT SAR - THE FOLLOWING IS ONLY HOW I UNDERSTAND CERTAIN ASPECTS OF TRACKING***-
(Sorry for the caps, but I feel it's important to make that clear ahead of time based on the content)

I believe if Malik were walking in that park, it's uncertain his scent (not a cadaver scent) can be tracked. After 8 days, it's, IMO, that middle ground. . . where maybe the scent is there, but it's not a certainty. If it rained over the past 8 days, my understanding is it would KEEP the scent there longer than if it had not rained. . . . Being in a shady, less frequently traveled area would also be a plus. If he only visited this area once versus daily or often, and did so for a very short time, I don't think after another week it would be likely his scent would be trackable. (but, cadaver . . . definitely)

I have not pulled the weather data, but generally speaking, a light mist is a wonderful thing for scent, any amount of significant rain is a bad thing.

 

[sarx]

They are back out at the river today? I thought they said the search of the river had concluded?

I think it was meant that it had concluded for the day because of nightfall. It is not uncommon at all for river and lake searches to take days and days, especially if the water is murky and they have to touch search.

 

[sarx]

But, if I understand correctly, (which may not be the case) cadaver dogs will indicate any human remains, not just those they are searching for. So does this mean that if anyone in the past 10 years had been disposed of there the dogs would react?


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Yes, a HRD dog is gonna alert on HR scent of anyone.