ARDI -- new hope The return of the IDI

[voynich]

So now you're suggesting that a 3-year old JB masturbated?

I'm a disappointed in you....

An adult certainly could do this without breaking the hymen. I know you are male, so I'll cut you some slack in your lack of understanding of female anatomy. But virgins who use tampons when menstruating do not break the hymen. A tampon applicator is the width of a finger, but a bit longer. Not as long as a penis. A penis will break the hymen. A finger/tampon will not. The hymen is higher up in the vaginal canal.

You know, I've wondered about this.

I did write "It seems to me BR or JB's age-matched friend played 'doctor' and this is a separate and unrelated issue to her murder (whether PR rage or ARDI)

Is it 'sexual abuse' if 5y/o JB played doctor with consent w/another 5 y/o (girl or boy) given both same age? "

 

[voynich]

I meant LinasK, who was molested much in the way I suggest.



If it happened that way, I'd have to agree. But then, would a kid be that careful?



No, it isn't. In a situation like that, neither participant has any real power over the other. It's an equal relationship. Abuse requires that one person have the upper hand over another.

I thought BR has he's the most likely candidate.
A 5 y/o kid has proportionately small fingers so would not have to be careful. The "careful" adult JR child abuser, sounds sort of oxymoronic.

Um, you know kids bully one another? Just watch South Park.

 

[BBB167893]

A 5 y/o kid has proportionately small fingers so would not have to be careful. The "careful" adult JR child abuser, sounds sort of oxymoronic.

I realize how it sounds. But if you type "child sexual abuse" and digital penetration" into a search engine, you'd be surprised at what you'll find.

Um, you know kids bully one another? Just watch South Park.

I know that. I'm saying that, as a general rule, one 5-y/o has no greater knowledge about what sex is than another one.

 

[Tadpole12]

You know, I've wondered about this.

I did write "It seems to me BR or JB's age-matched friend played 'doctor' and this is a separate and unrelated issue to her murder (whether PR rage or ARDI)

Is it 'sexual abuse' if 5y/o JB played doctor with consent w/another 5 y/o (girl or boy) given both same age? "

Hi voynich.

inappropriate sexual contact within the peer group = children of similar age range.

Children that have been exposed to *advertiser censored* would be the exception to the general rule which SD has mentioned. Or a child that has been a victim of sexual abuse might reenact.

 

[voynich]

Hi voynich.

inappropriate sexual contact within the peer group = children of similar age range.

Children that have been exposed to *advertiser censored* would be the exception to the general rule which SD has mentioned. Or a child that has been a victim of sexual abuse might reenact.

Hi,
in terms of probability, given an "eroded" but intact hymen, is it more likely it was worn due to the insertion of a similar age child (say BR) or more likely due to JR?

 

[BBB167893]

Children that have been exposed to *advertiser censored* would be the exception to the general rule which SD has mentioned. Or a child that has been a victim of sexual abuse might reenact.

I was getting to that, Tadpole.

 

[Sophie]

I was getting to that, Tadpole.

Am I imagining this, Dave, or did someone at some point come up with some sort of evidence that one of the Ramsey nannies in Georgia had perhaps been slightly inappropriate - at least by Western standards?

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi,
in terms of probability, given an "eroded" but intact hymen, is it more likely it was worn due to the insertion of a similar age child (say BR) or more likely due to JR?

Hi voynich.

unable to draw that conclusion ..... but LA was told the erosion at the ten and two o'clock position, was likely due to penetration with a finger, right handed person, iirc. So that is the established pattern, what the morphology, the scaring tissue would represent.

Or penetration with an object or partial penetration with a penis seems a possibility? but that's not what was mentioned to Arndt upon autopsy.

 

[voynich]

Hi voynich.

unable to draw that conclusion ..... but LA was told the erosion at the ten and two o'clock position, was likely due to penetration with a finger, right handed person, iirc. So that is the established pattern, what the morphology, the scaring tissue would represent.

Or penetration with an object or partial penetration with a penis seems a possibility? but that's not what was mentioned to Arndt upon autopsy.

Was it possible to establish the size of the finger and probable age of the perp?

 

[BBB167893]

Am I imagining this, Dave, or did someone at some point come up with some sort of evidence that one of the Ramsey nannies in Georgia had perhaps been slightly inappropriate - at least by Western standards?

I have a vague idea of what you're asking, but I'm not pulling up specifics right now. I'll check.

 

[DeeDee249]

Was it possible to establish the size of the finger and probable age of the perp?

Doubtful. The size, possibly. Not the age, except as it pertains to being unreachable by a child's finger. I still don't see what is gained by continuing the line of thought that another child was the abuser. It was not mentioned specifically in the autopsy, but adult involvement is implied in the absence of mention of any other alternative. The possibly accidental death by fatal injury of a little girl was covered up for a reason. The discovery of sexual abuse by a family member is a strong possibility for the reason why.
Most kids do engage in some sort of sex play or curiosity- especially with siblings (of either sex) for the simple reason of opportunity. The housekeeper reported finding JB and BR under a cover ostensibly "playing doctor" on at least one occasion- and the kids screamed at her to get out of the room. No word on whether this was reported to PR.

 

[voynich]

Doubtful. The size, possibly. Not the age, except as it pertains to being unreachable by a child's finger. I still don't see what is gained by continuing the line of thought that another child was the abuser. It was not mentioned specifically in the autopsy, but adult involvement is implied in the absence of mention of any other alternative. The possibly accidental death by fatal injury of a little girl was covered up for a reason. The discovery of sexual abuse by a family member is a strong possibility for the reason why.
Most kids do engage in some sort of sex play or curiosity- especially with siblings (of either sex) for the simple reason of opportunity. The housekeeper reported finding JB and BR under a cover ostensibly "playing doctor" on at least one occasion- and the kids screamed at her to get out of the room. No word on whether this was reported to PR.

Couldn't the red explain everything? How do you know that the injuries to JB was done to cover up prior abuse and not for some other reason?

 

[Sophie]

Dave, I've found the references to the nanny and to the Ramsey friend (as mentioned on other thread) but they are from another forum so I'll ask the owner before linking. As far as I can tell, the Ramsey friend has fallen off the radar (although I seem to recall her having a view on the Lacy exoneration) and the other poster may have returned with another hat but, again, he appears to have fallen away from the JBR scene.

 

[Sophie]

DeeDee, if a child was prone to urinary infections which itched and burned, how much damaage would you expect to be caused by vigorous scratching? I know the fingers wouldn't reach far enough to cause the damage in this case, but I was just wonderinwg whether - in different circs - scratching a chronic itch could cause erosion of the hymen. TIA as always

 

[BBB167893]

Couldn't the red explain everything?

I guess it would depend. How frequently did this happen and how far did it go.

How do you know that the injuries to JB was done to cover up prior abuse and not for some other reason?

Well, from my RDI perspective, there's only one other reason to do it: to add to the illusion. Either way...

 

[DeeDee249]

Couldn't the red explain everything? How do you know that the injuries to JB was done to cover up prior abuse and not for some other reason?

Maybe, but I don't think so- if the parents knew there was ongoing sexual exploration between BR and JB, the staging was meant to protect him.
Yet, this kind of activity is common and wouldn't be looked on at as anything criminal.
It had to be something more to warrant a coverup like that.
I also don't think the bruising and internal bleeding would come from anything BR did.
There was evidence of prior abuse, and though the activity between siblings could have happened on several occasions, I am not sure the parents would have been aware.
Could the injuries have been for some other reason than covering abuse- of course. We just don't know exactly why, and like everything said here- it is an opinion only- because none of us were there.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee, if a child was prone to urinary infections which itched and burned, how much damaage would you expect to be caused by vigorous scratching? I know the fingers wouldn't reach far enough to cause the damage in this case, but I was just wonderinwg whether - in different circs - scratching a chronic itch could cause erosion of the hymen. TIA as always

Scratching alone would not cause those injuries. JB didn't have urinary tract infections. She had vaginitis, which is different.

 

[voynich]

If AR was in JB'shouse that night,

what kind of injuries would he inflict on JB, including hymen and bruising, based on Amy's ordeal, and how does this differ from the evidence?


If ARDI is true, then his first attempt for ransom and money was botched, although he did mislead LE towards R"s and away from him.

His second attempt was apparently gratification

 

[madeleine]

If AR was in JB'shouse that night,

what kind of injuries would he inflict on JB, including hymen and bruising, based on Amy's ordeal, and how does this differ from the evidence?


If ARDI is true, then his first attempt for ransom and money was botched, although he did mislead LE towards R"s and away from him.

His second attempt was apparently gratification

I'd rather believe it was Oliva than ARDI.I still don't see ANY connections between the A case and JB's.:twocents:

 

[voynich]

I'd rather believe it was Oliva than ARDI.I still don't see ANY connections between the A case and JB's.:twocents:

The RDI claim that "pedophile intruders do not assault children in their houses while their parents are present where their screams may be heard"

sounds logical, sensible, forms a key premise of CASKU profile, and many RDI speculations,

Only thing is that there is at least one example of such an intruder, 2 if you count JB