Are there other victims?

[Bibliophile]

I cannot give you a rational reason why, but I agree with your assessment on a gut level. I do think that Garrido is a good suspect in Michaela's case.

I agree. That's the one I felt most strongly about as well.

 

[thefragile7393]

Do we know for sure that Jaycee's daughters are her daughters and not other kidnap victims that she believes are her daughters? I know it sounds a bit far fetched, but i'm curious if they have DNA tested the girls, just to be positive.

QUOTE]

I agree that DNA testing is needed. I believe, like everyone here KNOWS, it goes without saying that Garrido raped Jaycee, maybe even the little girls. BUT that doesn't mean that he is the biological father of Jaycee'sr children, esp. if he pimped her out to gangs of men. That sounded ugly and harsh, but that's what life was in that backyard, ugly and harsh.

Garrido's first wife was even surprised that Jaycee had given birth to Garrido's children, as she was unable to become pregnant by him and said he had a low sperm count.

The interviews with the security personnel at the college stated that the girls had his eyes. Which of course isn't DNA evidence but it seems like it's likely they are his. Infertility treatments and diagnostic procedures have come a long way since his supposed diagnosis, and I'm wondering if it's more her having fertility problems then him, if he apparently (as far as we know) had no problems fathering other children.

 

[Bibliophile]

Folks...

These murders did not happen in the early 70's.

LE has DNA evidence that obviously did not match Garrido.

Do you have a URL link about this? I'm just trying to keep it all straight in my mind and I recall one of the cases I read about did not have DNA evidence (though it may not be these).

Thanks!

 

[Pink Panther]

I can't imagine that they won't be doing DNA testing. Of course they will. I'm not sure that we'll necessarily hear about the results...Is this likely to go to trial? Any legal eagles have something to say about this?

 

[citypat]

I came across an old A&E forum about Jaycee Dugard when this story first broke to learn more about this case.

Not much really out there prior to the case breaking, but one post caught my eye and it reminded me a little of how PG might have posted with his religious leanings.

Post by Don Rummy on 12/30/2006 about half way down. I took notice because it reminded me of the way his blog was worded (his use of italics, law enforcement and scripture quote)

http://boards.aetv.com/topic/What-Should-Be/Jaycee-Lee-Dugard/300016004


Wild speculation I know, but take a look and let me know what you think...

 

[Bibliophile]

For time line purposes -

"When Phillip Garrido went to prison for six weeks on a parole violation, the former nursing assistant watched over Jaycee Dugard, authorities said.
"You can reasonably infer from the charging document that the wife was doing that," said former U.S. Attorney McGregor Scott, who is acting as a special spokesman for the El Dorado County District Attorney's Office."


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gusQac5WewVDFe0vcwvMX-wmpoNgD9AFFB780

 

[Wise Old Owl]

For time line purposes -

"When Phillip Garrido went to prison for six weeks on a parole violation, the former nursing assistant watched over Jaycee Dugard, authorities said.
"You can reasonably infer from the charging document that the wife was doing that," said former U.S. Attorney McGregor Scott, who is acting as a special spokesman for the El Dorado County District Attorney's Office."


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gusQac5WewVDFe0vcwvMX-wmpoNgD9AFFB780

Six weeks? Huh?

Parole violation was April 1993 through August 1993.
Its been reported that he was on "home confinement" for this violation and it has also been reported that he was actually behind bars. The behind bars comment was from a government agency.

I don't know what to believe in this case anymore. We are hearing a whole lotta nothing. What did they find at that "house of hell"?

We already know how badly LE agencies (California, Nevada, and Federal) dropped the ball - many times over. Its going to be CYA with all of them for the time being.

 

[mysteriew]

Do we know for sure that Jaycee's daughters are her daughters and not other kidnap victims that she believes are her daughters? I know it sounds a bit far fetched, but i'm curious if they have DNA tested the girls, just to be positive.

QUOTE]

I agree that DNA testing is needed. I believe, like everyone here KNOWS, it goes without saying that Garrido raped Jaycee, maybe even the little girls. BUT that doesn't mean that he is the biological father of Jaycee'sr children, esp. if he pimped her out to gangs of men. That sounded ugly and harsh, but that's what life was in that backyard, ugly and harsh.

Garrido's first wife was even surprised that Jaycee had given birth to Garrido's children, as she was unable to become pregnant by him and said he had a low sperm count.

His ex wife went on to have children with her more recent husband.

A low sperm count could explain why Jaycee only had the two children. Perhaps his count was just a little low or a little slow, and that he maybe had two "good" days. They say that foods and environmental factors can affect sperm viability and mobility. So perhaps it just so happened that circumstances worked on two occasions.

 

[ChaCha]

Juror Thirteen says (snipped for length):

One hour before Phillip Garrido kidnapped Hall, he tried to kidnap another woman in a similar manner, but she got away, according to officials and court records.

Garrido stopped the woman and asked her for a ride on the night of Nov. 22, 1976, Assistant U.S. Attorney Lealand Lutfy told a judge during Garrido’s 1978 trial for kidnapping Katherine Callaway. He got into the car and rode a certain distance before directing her down a different street, as he had with Callaway, Lutfy said.

When they stopped, “Garrido grabbed this woman, put one handcuff on this woman, (but) was unable to put the other one on,” Lutfy said. She struggled with Garrido and jumped out of the car, he said. Garrido agreed to loosen the cuffs if she promised that she wouldn’t tell the police, Lutfy said.

“She refused to get into the vehicle, the vehicle was moving,” Lutfy said. “He undid that one handcuff that was on her, attached to her, jumped out of the car and ran up the street and took off.”

Lutfy tried to introduce the alleged attack as evidence during Garrido’s federal trial in 1978 to show that he was on a mission to abduct a woman on that November night, and was not insane, as his lawyer was suggesting.

Attempted kidnapping charges were pending in California, but he was never convicted, so U.S. District Judge Bruce Thompson ruled against letting Lutfy tell the jury about the alleged crime.

 

[mysteriew]

I believe there are other victims. His ex wife says he was accused of rape while he was in high school. I believe there are probably unreported rapes too. But I also believe with his own statements saying that he like forcible sex and about how he liked to watch kids I believe he most likely does have murdered victims.

LE said when they finished the search that they did not find any evidence that related to the prostitute murders. But they didn't really comment much about Lisa Norrell. And there have been other missing kids in that area. I also believe that when they search the homes movies, the computer and things like that they will come up with evidence. The rape he did in 1976 the movie camera was a part of that scene. To me that means that filming is an important part of the scenario. I think there will be a record of other murders there somewhere.

 

[Californian]

I've heard the owners of Christenson Recycling Center‎ and JM Enterprises (Jim and Cheyvonne Molino dba J&M Enterprizes; JM Auto Wreckers; JM Enterprizes Auto Dismantlers‎; etc) say that Garrido has been doing printing for them "about 10 years."

Can anyone add other customers to this list who have said the same? That Garrido has done work for them since around 1998-1999?

If I recall correctly, most of the businesses he mentions on his blog were printing customers. There is one landscaping company, but it is listed in Brentwood, CA.

Thanks. I think he also did work for several real estate agents, he definitely did work for the glass company. I'm wondering where his other customers are located and how long he has printed for them.

What I'm trying to get at is it only a coincidence that the murder victims from late 1998-January 1999 were found near the recycling center and auto dismantlers listed in my original post that Garrido apparently started doing business with in 1998-1999?


Edited to add: Deepal Karunaratne, an Antioch real estate agent, said he worked with Phillip Garrido for a decade. He said Garrido printed business cards and signs for his business. source: http://www.jurorthirteen.com/GeneralCategories/MessageBoards/MessageBoards/tabid/60/forumid/161/tpage/1/view/topic/postid/4081/Default.aspx#4081.

 

[Californian]

I believe there are other victims. His ex wife says he was accused of rape while he was in high school. I believe there are probably unreported rapes too. But I also believe with his own statements saying that he like forcible sex and about how he liked to watch kids I believe he most likely does have murdered victims.

LE said when they finished the search that they did not find any evidence that related to the prostitute murders. But they didn't really comment much about Lisa Norrell. And there have been other missing kids in that area. I also believe that when they search the homes movies, the computer and things like that they will come up with evidence. The rape he did in 1976 the movie camera was a part of that scene. To me that means that filming is an important part of the scenario. I think there will be a record of other murders there somewhere.

I can't see how LE could definitively say they couldn't find any evidence linking him to the other crimes. They were on the property 4 days, but won't they only now start "processing" that mountain of debris we saw in the pictures? There is no way that got through all that evidence already, is there?

I hope they are investigating if he had access to any storage units around here.

 

[mysteriew]

I can't see how LE could definitively say they couldn't find any evidence linking him to the other crimes. They were on the property 4 days, but won't they only now start "processing" that mountain of debris we saw in the pictures? There is no way that got through all that evidence already, is there?

I hope they are investigating if he had access to any storage units around here.

LOL that was the point that I was trying to get to. If they found a video camera, they wouldn't have had a chance to view it's contents yet. There was a computer, they wouldn't have had a chance to view it's content yet. If they found VHS tapes, digital storage or DVD's they haven't had a chance to view them yet. And they did find a bone, they haven't had a chance for testing to be completed yet. I am sure there is a lot of testing to be done yet. But evidently they didn't find anything obvious like a pervious victims drivers license yet. But just because they didn't find anything obvious that really stood out, doesn't mean there isn't any connections or that they won't find them.

 

[nursebeeme]

Juror Thirteen says (snipped for length):

One hour before Phillip Garrido kidnapped Hall, he tried to kidnap another woman in a similar manner, but she got away, according to officials and court records.

Garrido stopped the woman and asked her for a ride on the night of Nov. 22, 1976, Assistant U.S. Attorney Lealand Lutfy told a judge during Garrido’s 1978 trial for kidnapping Katherine Callaway. He got into the car and rode a certain distance before directing her down a different street, as he had with Callaway, Lutfy said.

When they stopped, “Garrido grabbed this woman, put one handcuff on this woman, (but) was unable to put the other one on,” Lutfy said. She struggled with Garrido and jumped out of the car, he said. Garrido agreed to loosen the cuffs if she promised that she wouldn’t tell the police, Lutfy said.

“She refused to get into the vehicle, the vehicle was moving,” Lutfy said. “He undid that one handcuff that was on her, attached to her, jumped out of the car and ran up the street and took off.”

Lutfy tried to introduce the alleged attack as evidence during Garrido’s federal trial in 1978 to show that he was on a mission to abduct a woman on that November night, and was not insane, as his lawyer was suggesting.

Attempted kidnapping charges were pending in California, but he was never convicted, so U.S. District Judge Bruce Thompson ruled against letting Lutfy tell the jury about the alleged crime.

!!!!!!!!!!wow!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is what I just came on to post before heading to bed... well kinda sorta!!!!!! This is the first I heard of his failed attempt! What I came on to post was the fact that he told K during the rape that he had done this TWO TIMES BEFORE (it was in the transcripts from the rape case posted in the media thread.. they are pdf documents)

SO if he did it two times before that gives us a time frame to look at right?

 

[Californian]

For time line purposes -

"When Phillip Garrido went to prison for six weeks on a parole violation, the former nursing assistant watched over Jaycee Dugard, authorities said.
"You can reasonably infer from the charging document that the wife was doing that," said former U.S. Attorney McGregor Scott, who is acting as a special spokesman for the El Dorado County District Attorney's Office."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gusQac5WewVDFe0vcwvMX-wmpoNgD9AFFB780

Thank you for posting info to help with the Timeline!

I was trying to add the additional information we've heard recently about his incarceration to it today, and had to take a break because different agencies are reporting different information.

For example, one of the sources linked below said: "Garrido was transferred in 1986 to the maximum security federal facility in Lompoc, Calif., before his 1988 parole."

While another one said: "before his 1988 release to officials in Nevada, where he served a state sentence of eight months in a Carson City prison."

So did he go from Levenworth, KS to Lompoc, CA, to Carson City, NV? I started getting confused and figured I'd wait a day or 2 to see if we get clearer information.


http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/1412033.html?storylink=omni_popular

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime/ci_13246289?nclick_check=1

These are some other notes I made from those articles:

Garrido took the victim from South Lake Tahoe to Reno, crossing state lines and making it a federal offense. He served the longest time in federal prison, then was transferred to state prison. Some reports say Lompoc (CA), others say Carson City (NV) but the timeline isn't clear.

Garrido incarcerated at the U.S. Penitentiary in Leavenworth from late 1980 until early 1986.

For the first eight years of Dugard's confinement to a hidden backyard lair in Antioch, federal officers were charged with Phillip Garrido's parole supervision, after his federal prison term for the 1976 kidnapping of a casino employee he also raped, federal officials said Tuesday.

During that time, records show Garrido served a period of supervised home confinement in 1993, likely from a violation of his federal parole, said Felicia Ponce, a spokeswoman for the federal Bureau of Prisons.

That's the same year his federal supervised release ended, said Dick Carelli, spokesman for the administrative office of the federal courts, which oversees the federal parole service.

Hinkle said the California department took charge of Garrido's parole in 1999.

Within the past two years, under the state's enforcement of Jessica's Law, state parole agents strapped Garrido with a GPS anklet. It was "passive" GPS; agents did not actively monitor his whereabouts, but could see later where he had traveled.

 

[nursebeeme]

to add to my above post.... you could possibly multiply the number he admitted to by two to get the real number!

 

[Mazama]

I just posted this on Phil Garrido's prior offenses thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4114428#post4114428"]Phillip Garrido- prior offenses and background information - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Post #38

Maz

 

[JDB]

I agree. That's the one I felt most strongly about as well.

I also feel strongly about the Monster taking Michaela. What has got me wondering is there was a report or a post in here. That after they took the car. Michaela Mom was called asking what Micheala was wearing.

 

[phylliyum]

I also feel strongly about the Monster taking Michaela. What has got me wondering is there was a report or a post in here. That after they took the car. Michaela Mom was called asking what Micheala was wearing.

I think there's about a 99% chance he was involved in Michaela's abduction. Ilene's and Amanda's, I waiver on....but I think there may be a chance....especially with Amanda...the report from the neighbor is that there were 5 girls, 2 4 year old, and 11 year old, a 15 year old and a 25 year old. This was 4 years ago. Making Jaycee 25 and her saughters 11 and 7, possibly still 6. From a distance, a 7/6 year old could be mistaken for a younger child, especially a 4 year old. Amanda Campbell would have been 18 at the time...could EASILY have passed for 15. I'm 23 and I look 17 with out any makeup...so it's definitely possible.
Michaela's mom also suggest on her blog:

So that core group consisted of at least two girls in addition to Jaycee and her two daughters. This was a few years ago, so Jaycee's daughters would have been younger. I don't know whether they would have passed for four year olds, but probably wouldn't have appeared to be fifteen year olds. At that time, the girls would have been 7 and 11, and might the 7-year old have looked like a younger child? As for the 15-year old, Jaycee's mother has commented that Jaycee "looks very young." She said she doesn't look much different from the way she did the day she was kidnapped. She could easily have been the fifteen year old. So who would have been the 25-year old?

Could it have been Michaela? One of the key things the neighbor mentioned is that the girls "all looked the same," and everyone has commented on the striking similarities between Jaycee and Michaela.

source:http://thewonderingheart.blogspot.com

That's another possibility.

 

[JDB]

I think there's about a 99% chance he was involved in Michaela's abduction. Ilene's and Amanda's, I waiver on....but I think there may be a chance....especially with Amanda...the report from the neighbor is that there were 5 girls, 2 4 year old, and 11 year old, a 15 year old and a 25 year old. This was 4 years ago. Making Jaycee 25 and her saughters 11 and 7, possibly still 6. From a distance, a 7/6 year old could be mistaken for a younger child, especially a 4 year old. Amanda Campbell would have been 18 at the time...could EASILY have passed for 15. I'm 23 and I look 17 with out any makeup...so it's definitely possible.
Michaela's mom also suggest on her blog:
source:http://thewonderingheart.blogspot.com

That's another possibility.

Thank for showing her blog. I am sure after Jaycee has sometime with her family. The LE will do more talking with her.Maybe she will confirm there were others.