Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[crimesnooper]

I think I find myself analyzing Travis' behavior for two reasons. One..JA deserves a fair trial and she has raised issues about his character. This might be painful, untrue and unfair..but it does deserve attention. Second, he has been made out to be a saint. When any person is portrayed that way I have trouble buying it. Becuase no one is that perfect. And there is such clear information that he was not all that his friends say he was. I just can't buy that this man, at age 30, went from being a virgin and so sexually pure, that he never even masturbated before Jodi... to someone so comfortable with the sexting, fanaties ect. Something is really off here. And I don't buy he came out of that background, then raised in a very strict religion and he has no relationship or emotional issues??I don't see him as a poor, innocent man who was seduced and manipulated. He was using her, and knew completely what he was doing. Now that does not mean in anyway thatI feel he is not a victim, or in any way responsible for his death. It means that in understanding what happened here, I want to look at all the pieces.

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

I think what we're dealing with is emotion on both sides. Since we're all human, we can't help but have opinions that flow from our own experiences and backgrounds. Speaking for myself, I have been victimized by someone who is at the least, a malignant narcissist, and at worst, a psychopath, so I identify with Travis. Others here may identify with jodi because of their own experiences with cheating and/or emotional abuse, as jodi has alleged, or simply want to understand how this could have happened to prevent it from happening to them in the future.

It pains me deeply that Travis' character is being scrutinized for what appears to be an effort to find some reason to justify jodi's actions. Of course Travis wasn't perfect. None of us is perfect. But he didn't deserve to be stabbed 29 times as he was naked in the shower, shot in the head and throat slit from ear to ear.

When I read the comments about Travis' imperfections, I can't help but imagine how people would view my own interactions with my abuser. What would be said about my decision to return to him because I was afraid that if I didn't he would kill me? Or about my decision not to file a restraining order for fear that it would only set him off and make him kill me before the cops could do anything about it?

In all fairness, I know that those who are scrutinizing Travis' actions are not doing so out of malice. I know that you care about Travis as a victim and are simply trying to understand how this tragedy could have happened. However, for me, and probably others who have had similar experiences, this case resonates to our very core. We identify strongly with Travis and can't help thinking, "that could have been me."

Please understand though...I'm not saying that one side's opinion is more valuable than the other. I'm just explaining why I , and perhaps others like me, tend to have such strong emotions about protecting Travis' memory. IMO, JMO

THANK YOU for your most excellent post. Thank you for reminding me (and all of us) why it is important to be perhaps a little more gentle and understanding of people who don't agree with us. ESPECIALLY when the topic is the psychology of an individual. Our own life and experiences color our perceptions to a large extent. I try to remember that when posting, and it has prevented me, many times, from posting a quick, snarky reply to a post I don't agree with! lol

 

[iSleuth]

I too would have liked to have seen the way she presented herself to Travis in the beginning. But I actually do not believe Jodi's story about Travis coming into her bedroom [ at the Hughes' home] and kissing her and forcing her to allow him to perform oral sex on her. I think it is MUCH more likely she went into HIS bedroom and kissed HIM and asked him to do down on her!
SHE was the instigator and the aggressor sexually !

Agreed- I don't believe any of her stories ( not one) listed above or any of the others- including her baptism day- and the poprocks day-or the photos of kids day -the spiderman underpants-or the fog- they are all stories. And all the experts can opine about their diagnoses but the facts show that they bought her pathological lies hook line and sinker. She is still trying to "comport with the evidence" and script. She is like a robot on so many subjects.

I also agree with what you said about her being the agressor. JM will show through ALv that jodi arias fits on the continuum of abuse alright- as an abuser-stalker-a sexual abuser and a pre meditated cruel and excessively violent killer.

:jail:

 

[Dragonfyree]

With Travis & Jodi's relationship, it looks a lot like what many of the younger women in my office call Friends With Benefits.

I must really be getting old because it sounds like a terrible relationship to me as many of the women actually are hoping this will turn into a real relationship. While my guess is the guys are thinking this is great - all the benefits without having to have an actual relationship with her.

As far as Travis being a pedophile - I know you can't tell by looking at someone, but is there anything that indicated that he tried to get close to young boys? A youth leader, offering to babysit, taking his friends kids out without the parents - taking them fishing, etc? I would think there would be something.

 

[MeeBee]

I think I find myself analyzing Travis' behavior for two reasons. One..JA deserves a fair trial and she has raised issues about his character. This might be painful, untrue and unfair..but it does deserve attention. Second, he has been made out to be a saint. When any person is portrayed that way I have trouble buying it. Becuase no one is that perfect. And there is such clear information that he was not all that his friends say he was. I just can't buy that this man, at age 30, went from being a virgin and so sexually pure, that he never even masturbated before Jodi... to someone so comfortable with the sexting, fanaties ect. Something is really off here. And I don't buy he came out of that background, then raised in a very strict religion and he has no relationship or emotional issues??I don't see him as a poor, innocent man who was seduced and manipulated. He was using her, and knew completely what he was doing. Now that does not mean in anyway thatI feel he is not a victim, or in any way responsible for his death. It means that in understanding what happened here, I want to look at all the pieces.

I am going to keep this short.

A.) They were using each other. This is obvious.

B.) Travis was no saint. I think you'll find many of us agree with you there. It isn't a death sentence. There are stories of Travis' player ways. There are also stories of him being kind to a fault. No one is black and white. We ALL have our faults.

C.) "No one is that perfect." Exactly. And Jodi sitting up there for 18 talking as if everything in her life is basically people just using, cheating on, abusing, and being mean to her while she is this innocent little thing who never does anything wrong and just lays around like a little doormat and takes it is a little hard for me to swallow. No one is that perfect. Or innocent.

Her making it seem like all of her actions and lies were her just trying to protect Travis, no matter how horrible he was to her, so much so that she'd rather sit in jail than tell the truth, is also a little hard for me to swallow. She's acting like saint Jodi. Every single thing she ever did with Travis merely to appease him. She even somehow managed to blame her offering to dress as a schoolgirl and asking for a "generous facial" on him!

This goes both ways. And Travis is not the one on trial here.

 

[SMK]

I think I find myself analyzing Travis' behavior for two reasons. One..JA deserves a fair trial and she has raised issues about his character. This might be painful, untrue and unfair..but it does deserve attention. Second, he has been made out to be a saint. When any person is portrayed that way I have trouble buying it. Becuase no one is that perfect. And there is such clear information that he was not all that his friends say he was. I just can't buy that this man, at age 30, went from being a virgin and so sexually pure, that he never even masturbated before Jodi... to someone so comfortable with the sexting, fanaties ect. Something is really off here. And I don't buy he came out of that background, then raised in a very strict religion and he has no relationship or emotional issues??I don't see him as a poor, innocent man who was seduced and manipulated. He was using her, and knew completely what he was doing. Now that does not mean in anyway thatI feel he is not a victim, or in any way responsible for his death. It means that in understanding what happened here, I want to look at all the pieces.

Yes, I have enormous sympathy for Travis, but you are right: All of the truth must be looked at. I wondered the same about a man of 30 and his sexuality. The transition was swift - or we are missing some piece of the puzzle. As long as facts are being looked at (and not smearing the victim, etc.) then I too believe that ALL should be on the table, all should be up for debate. This does not mean we are putting Travis on trial, either.

 

[SMK]

I am going to keep this short.

A.) They were using each other. This is obvious.

B.) Travis was no saint. I think you'll find many of us agree with you there. It isn't a death sentence. There are stories of Travis' player ways. There are also stories of him being kind to a fault. No one is black and white. We ALL have our faults.

C.) "No one is that perfect." Exactly. And Jodi sitting up there for 18 talking as if everything in her life is basically people just using, cheating on, abusing, and being mean to her while she is this innocent little thing who never does anything wrong and just lays around like a little doormat and takes it is a little hard for me to swallow. No one is that perfect. Or innocent.

Her making it seem like all of her actions and lies were her just trying to protect Travis, no matter how horrible he was to her, so much so that she'd rather sit in jail than tell the truth, is also a little hard for me to swallow. She's acting like saint Jodi. Every single thing she ever did with Travis merely to appease him. She even somehow managed to blame her offering to dress as a schoolgirl and asking for a "generous facial" on him!

This goes both ways. And Travis is not the one on trial here.

Yes, it goes both ways: But practically everyone disparages JA, as she is the murderer. No, of course TA is not on trial : But one can have total sympathy for him and still have questions one would like to find answers for: NOT to attack him, but to understand.

 

[Tiger09]

With Travis & Jodi's relationship, it looks a lot like what many of the younger women in my office call Friends With Benefits.

I must really be getting old because it sounds like a terrible relationship to me as many of the women actually are hoping this will turn into a real relationship. While my guess is the guys are thinking this is great - all the benefits without having to have an actual relationship with her.

As far as Travis being a pedophile - I know you can't tell by looking at someone, but is there anything that indicated that he tried to get close to young boys? A youth leader, offering to babysit, taking his friends kids out without the parents - taking them fishing, etc? I would think there would be something.

Then that would make every church leader of every religion, every volunteer coach, baby sitter, every kind person a pedofile. Jodi lied- she even changed her story. First, the pics were naked kids, then it was kids in their underwear, then it was catalogs, then there was a journal entry she made where nothing happened to report. Not every kind person is a pedo. Jodi has her back against the wall because she's wrong- surprise- a jury might convict her. Travis suffered abuse as a kid and he was slaughtered as an adult, it's sad that now his killer gets to keep on throwing stones at his reputation.

 

[SMK]

With Travis & Jodi's relationship, it looks a lot like what many of the younger women in my office call Friends With Benefits.

I must really be getting old because it sounds like a terrible relationship to me as many of the women actually are hoping this will turn into a real relationship. While my guess is the guys are thinking this is great - all the benefits without having to have an actual relationship with her.

As far as Travis being a pedophile - I know you can't tell by looking at someone, but is there anything that indicated that he tried to get close to young boys? A youth leader, offering to babysit, taking his friends kids out without the parents - taking them fishing, etc? I would think there would be something.

Excellent points, both.

 

[SMK]

Then that would make every church leader of every religion, every volunteer coach, baby sitter, every kind person a pedofile. Jodi lied- she even changed her story. First, the pics were naked kids, then it was kids in their underwear, then it was catalogs, then there was a journal entry she made where nothing happened to report. Not every kind person is a pedo. Jodi has her back against the wall because she's wrong- surprise- a jury might convict her. Travis suffered abuse as a kid and he was slaughtered as an adult, it's sad that now his killer gets to keep on throwing stones at his reputation.

Yes, I know, on the human level, it is horrid. But once things reach the high court of law, everything has to be examined coldly and objectively, without emotion. (of course it is becoming ever more clear that JA fabricated it. But leave no stone unturned, as they say.)

 

[MeeBee]

Yes, it goes both ways: But practically everyone disparages JA, as she is the murderer. No, of course TA is not on trial : But one can have total sympathy for him and still have questions one would like to find answers for: NOT to attack him, but to understand.

I know this. But I think giving so much weight to JA's words is disappointing and dangerous. She lies and blames other for her actions. At the end of the day, when/if she's convicted of murder and receives the DP. There will still be people out there who believe that Travis was a pedophile. That he was abusive. That he attacked her that day. No matter what. That is very sad to me.

This thread is a psyche discussion of Jodi Arias and I get that people want to understand who Travis was. I think we know enough of who and what Travis was. He wasn't someone who deserved to die. He wasn't a murderer. People seem almost upset that someone who was murdered is being so praised by his friends. Well, when someone you love is murdered or dies, people tend to do that. Obviously Travis had some skeletons and he wasn't perfect, and he does have some friends who have discussed his shortcomings. All over the place, actually.

At the end of the day, in my eyes, it moves away from a discussion and wanting to gain understanding of him and moves to people wanting so badly for everyone to understand what a bad guy he actually was. I don't know who or what that really helps. I've met way worse people than Travis Alexander.

 

[Dragonfyree]

Then that would make every church leader of every religion, every volunteer coach, baby sitter, every kind person a pedofile. Jodi lied- she even changed her story. First, the pics were naked kids, then it was kids in their underwear, then it was catalogs, then there was a journal entry she made where nothing happened to report. Not every kind person is a pedo. Jodi has her back against the wall because she's wrong- surprise- a jury might convict her. Travis suffered abuse as a kid and he was slaughtered as an adult, it's sad that now his killer gets to keep on throwing stones at his reputation.

I don't believe Travis was a pedophile.

My point was that I believe most pedophiles attempt to get children alone. I don't mean people who coach a team, or are a religious leader, teacher or anyone else, unless they're going off alone with one kid all the time.

As far as I have heard or read, Travis didn't do any of that and that it is just Jodi's word (and we all know what that's worth) that he was a pedophile.

 

[SunnyinMO]

Yes, it goes both ways: But practically everyone disparages JA, as she is the murderer. No, of course TA is not on trial : But one can have total sympathy for him and still have questions one would like to find answers for: NOT to attack him, but to understand.

I disagree with the statement that Travis is not on trial. JA and her defense attorneys have indeed put Travis on trial. She murdered him not once, but over and over again in this trial. The only mean, cruel, perverse, angry Travis that we hear about is from the JA team. Those that know Travis tell us about a young man who was a pleasure to be around, who tried to help people, inspire them, who wanted to get married and have children and live a good Mormon life..he wanted to get away from his addiction called sex and jodi!...Travis was IMO sexually immature until he met JA. She reeked of sexual temptation...that is what she used to trap men....and I do believe she trapped Travis. IMO to understand Travis we must listen to the people who knew him...knew his heart and his soul. Watch the young man doing the chicken dance,...there you see the real Travis.

 

[SMK]

I know this. But I think giving so much weight to JA's words is disappointing and dangerous. She lies and blames other for her actions. At the end of the day, when/if she's convicted of murder and receives the DP. There will still be people out there who believe that Travis was a pedophile. That he was abusive. That he attacked her that day. No matter what. That is very sad to me.

This thread is a psyche discussion of Jodi Arias and I get that people want to understand who Travis was. I think we know enough of who and what Travis was. He wasn't someone who deserved to die. He wasn't a murderer. People seem almost upset that someone who was murdered is being so praised by his friends. Well, when someone you love is murdered or dies, people tend to do that. Obviously Travis had some skeletons and he wasn't perfect, and he does have some friends who have discussed his shortcomings. All over the place, actually.

At the end of the day, in my eyes, it moves away from a discussion and wanting to gain understanding of him and moves to people wanting so badly for everyone to understand what a bad guy he actually was. I don't know who or what that really helps. I've met way worse people than Travis Alexander.

No, I don't think Travis was a bad man, although his behavior was less than stellar.

And yes, I agree JA is willing to throw him under the bus to save herself, and to bring in charges of pedophilia which are almost surely only a sick ploy. That said, no harm can come in anyone wanting to examine if there might have been any truth to it: If not (and I think there is likely NOT an ounce of truth to her charges) then that is what they will find bolstered by the evidence.

(Something people forget, by the way: There is a small, small possibility that if Travis himself had been molested as a child, he might be inclined to act out with pictures. A SMALL chance, I said. But if so, that would not make him an actual predator nor a pedophile. In any case JA is probably lying given her horrible track record.)

 

[SMK]

I disagree with the statement that Travis is not on trial. JA and her defense attorneys have indeed put Travis on trial. She murdered him not once, but over and over again in this trial. The only mean, cruel, perverse, angry Travis that we hear about is from the JA team. Those that know Travis tell us about a young man who was a pleasure to be around, who tried to help people, inspire them, who wanted to get married and have children and live a good Mormon life..he wanted to get away from his addiction called sex and jodi!...Travis was IMO sexually immature until he met JA. She reeked of sexual temptation...that is what she used to trap men....and I do believe she trapped Travis. IMO to understand Travis we must listen to the people who knew him...knew his heart and his soul. Watch the young man doing the chicken dance,...there you see the real Travis.

How many anti-Travis people do you think there are, though? Certainly none here; I have not seen any on any websites except for one Pro-Arias site; I doubt if anyone in the court gallery are, and I doubt if any of the jury are buying any of it. I don't think he really is on trial- everyone seems to be on his side, including me.

 

[MeeBee]

No, I don't think Travis was a bad man, although his behavior was less than stellar.

And yes, I agree JA is willing to throw him under the bus to save herself, and to bring in charges of pedophilia which are almost surely only a sick ploy. That said, no harm can come in anyone wanting to examine if there might have been any truth to it: If not (and I think there is likely NOT an ounce of truth to her charges) then that is what they will find bolstered by the evidence.

(Something people forget, by the way: There is a small, small possibility that if Travis himself had been molested as a child, he might be inclined to act out with pictures. A SMALL chance, I said. But if so, that would not make him an actual predator nor a pedophile. In any case JA is probably lying given her horrible track record.)

Well, I completely disagree that there is no harm in it. I don't think at this point in the game that it is just people innocently wanting to know whether there is any veracity to Jodi's claims that Travis was a pedophile.

I and another poster have pointed out many, many times that what happened on Jan. 21 simply could not have and did not. They never even saw each other. She changed her story when she realized there was no *advertiser censored* on his computer. There is so much evidence that she lied about this (I'm not going to go through it again) and not one shred of evidence that it actually happened. All we have at this point is Jodi's lying mouth word.

You'd think this would be good enough for people who truly don't know and want to know. But people continually side step the evidence and grasp and pull for something, anything, that proves that he really was a pedophile and Jodi really did see something that day. That's just being willfully obtuse. It goes from an innocent want of "understanding" whether or not Travis was a pedophile, and needing to believe it so that it proves that Travis was a bad man and the world is a better place without him and Jodi just had to do what she had to do. I'm not blind. That's what it really is.

 

[MeeBee]

How many anti-Travis people do you think there are, though? Certainly none here; I have not seen any on any websites except for one Pro-Arias site; I doubt if anyone in the court gallery are, and I doubt if any of the jury are buying any of it. I don't think he really is on trial- everyone seems to be on his side, including me.

Well, I disagree with this. I have seen a couple here who do seem to be very anti Travis and have figured out that this is the only place in this forum that they can post their dislike of him and simply cloak it in "a need to understand his psyche."

They can dislike Travis all they want.

But I thought this was an armchair psyche discussion of Jodi. Not Jodi and Travis.

 

[marikesh]

I am reading this thread is a psyche discussion on JA however I have been trying to find just a plain discussion thread and am finding only locked threads.

I suppose what I have to say is partly psyche related as in the diagnosis that A. Laviolette has made following talking to Jodi on the phone and studying the case history as well as getting her hands on the e-mail that Jodi apparently received from Chris and Sky Hughes whereby they warned Jodi that Travis has abused woman before. I believe these were the same two people whose house Jodi and Travis met at during the beginning of their relationship as a halfway meeting point when Jodi lived in Yreka. I clearly remember that Sky warned Travis about her feelings about Jodi when they thought Jodi had gone to bed with a headache and instead she was listening outside the door. Sky had indicated in an interview that the look on Jodi's face was quite scary. That is when Sky and Chris told Travis he was not allowed to bring Jodi there again. So how is it that Jodi has an e-mail from them warning her about Travis, and that e-mail is the very one that LaViolette diagnosed Travis on with being an abuser? Either LaViolette has not seen the copy of the e-mail or hasn't understood that Jodi could have erased and typed anything she wanted on there, or what kind of game are they playing here? During the interview they certainly did not see Jodi as a victim imo.

I agree they used each other but people can only be used if they allow it imo. I don't think Travis has done anything different than most young men playing the field and by the sounds of it, Jodi was into unusual sex before meeting Travis. If she had a worthless feeling, that showed in her 4 yr relationship with the previous man she had lived with imo, b/c she did say she had breast augmentation to fit in with his group of friends. If that is what it takes to fit in, well that speaks to low self esteem right there imo. Yet Travis is being blamed for causing her low self esteem to the point she snapped and killed her abuser. I don't believe anything coming out of Jodi's mouth and Travis can't speak up anymore.
I'm not a violent person and don't wish death on anyone but I do think Jodi deserves jail for the rest of her natural life.

 

[SMK]

Well, I disagree with this. I have seen a couple here who do seem to be very anti Travis and have figured out that this is the only place in this forum that they can post their dislike of him and simply cloak it in "a need to understand his psyche."

They can dislike Travis all they want.

But I thought this was an armchair psyche discussion of Jodi. Not Jodi and Travis.

Oh, OK. Got it. I really didn't know that. Or did not take notice.

 

[SMK]

Well, I completely disagree that there is no harm in it. I don't think at this point in the game that it is just people innocently wanting to know whether there is any veracity to Jodi's claims that Travis was a pedophile.

I and another poster have pointed out many, many times that what happened on Jan. 21 simply could not have and did not. They never even saw each other. She changed her story when she realized there was no *advertiser censored* on his computer. There is so much evidence that she lied about this (I'm not going to go through it again) and not one shred of evidence that it actually happened. All we have at this point is Jodi's lying mouth word.

You'd think this would be good enough for people who truly don't know and want to know. But people continually side step the evidence and grasp and pull for something, anything, that proves that he really was a pedophile and Jodi really did see something that day. That's just being willfully obtuse. It goes from an innocent want of "understanding" whether or not Travis was a pedophile, and needing to believe it so that it proves that Travis was a bad man and the world is a better place without him and Jodi just had to do what she had to do. I'm not blind. That's what it really is.

Oh, OK, well with me it is not that for certain. I really did come late to the case and have tried to catch up as best as I could while busy in other areas. I may have had to skim threads in order to catch up. I have said repeatedly that I don't think there is any truth to the pedophile charge. There is no evidence.