Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[shelley921]

What angers me about Jodi is that cases like this give the impression of *advertiser censored* shaming towards women. Travis isn't doing so much of the public *advertiser censored* shaming- rather she and her DT are. Going on the stand and crying victim, but recording a sex tape without his knowledge, introducing the guy to ky and then making false accusations of abuse and rape - but then telling the prosecutor that some of the sex was good in a flippant tone looks horrendous. It takes away from women being able to own their sexuality and it makes people question future abuse victims. Travis Alexander's own manhood and life and rep were taken from her. Jodi Arias is disgusting. That makes me angry at her- lack of conscience.

yes her lack of conscience makes me angry at her too. there isn't one thing about her that does not make me angry.
the lies, the manipulation, the way she mis-represented herself to Travis-becoming sexually accessible and irresistible to Travis under the guise of being OK with just having a friends with benefits relationship. she wanted to be his wife. she hated that he was seeing other women--!

is there ANYTHING about Jodi that makes you HAPPY or PLEASED? i find nothing likable/pleasing about her.
every friend and relative of Travis’s, who was interviewed by Detective Flores, independently described Jodi as being an obsessed stalker.

I can't think of anything that makes me pleased with her. she is TOTALLY disgusting in my book!

 

[crimesnooper]

right-we haven't seen stalking/obsession to the extent she did those with Travis in her prior relationships. but there was plenty of trouble in her prior relations with men.

I think Jodi has had low self esteem from way before she met Travis. I see her as an empty shell of a person with no identity and a parasitic lifestyle. how does a woman feel lovable or adequate if she gets to age 27 and she has a string of broken relationships behind her, is a h.s. dropout, is not able to support herself, has strained relations with family & has no close women friends-? the only thing she felt she had to offer was her sexuality.
when Travis tells her to stay away, she keeps coming around. Most normal people have too much respect for themselves to keep going back where they are not wanted or welcome...over & over & over again! Normal people with good self esteem/respect do not invade other's privacy, break into other's homes, hack into cell phones, email, steal journals, slash tires, send threatening letters etc.

one of her many manipulative behaviors is to “come on” to any male in contact with her like she did with Det. Flores, in those police interviews and as some of Travis' friends have stated. manipulating men with sex is a power base for her.

did you read what ShadyLadySleuth posted:


"She has met the man of her dreams, who could have given her the "rock star" life she wanted. She tried so hard to be the "one" he chose. After all she did to please him, kinky sex, etc., be the perfect girlfriend for him, she finally realized she would never be his wife. This crushed her ego but she pretended all was well with her. She moved back to where she came from - a tiny town nobody ever heard of - back to her grandparents little house, without many prospects job wise or man wise. To me, that would feel like failure. Back home with my tail between my legs, 27 years old, not married, and no job. Back living with Grandma and Grandpa. A failure! But Jodi is a different kind of woman. She won't admit any of this was her fault. She turns it all around, in her mind, and blames everyone else! It was Travis fault! His friends rejected me! She gets so angry and resentful and broods about it obsessively. She has to make him pay for her pain! For her failures. With his life."

I think the 'why" is she got to a place of rage/anger and she felt a need to extract a kind of vengeance that would be justified for the wrongs she believed were done against against her. mostly rejection. Dr Drew's one stalking expert guest said Jodi is a "jealous" stalker.
This kind of stalker - apparently there are different kinds of stalkers- can easily end up murdering the person they are obsessively stalking. [ If I recall correctly ]

Very, very interesting about the jealous stalker. If she never had such strong feelings for the other men, that would explain the intesnity with TA. One of the reasons I don't buy she was just going to kill him,as in just shoot him is I think she wanted him to know he was going to die. I think she wanted to inflict pain, not just kill him.

 

[shelley921]

Very, very interesting about the jealous stalker. If she never had such strong feelings for the other men, that would explain the intesnity with TA. One of the reasons I don't buy she was just going to kill him,as in just shoot him is I think she wanted him to know he was going to die. I think she wanted to inflict pain, not just kill him.

yes - several others have said the same thing. she wanted to inflict pain. she wanted to make it nasty & gruesome. yuck. she is so horrible - it is totally unimaginable what she did.

 

[SMK]

Here is what I have a hard time wrapping my head around. JA had no previous history of being O/C with other relationships rage, stalking. With the exception of TA's friends..no one has put forth that she was "evil" and you could tell. All the accusations about slashed tires,breaking into FB and accounts, came from Travis. What was it about this relationship in her eyes that made her decide to murder him? To be fair, we did not see a mass group of men from previous relationships saying she was a stalker, ect.
So once again, her relationship with Travis and what really happened here is important to me. Becuase at the end of the day, she might have done everything she is accused( which I do beleive)but I still can't get the why for sure.

I think it boils down to the fact that the stakes had never been so high for her :

She had never been that old (28 is young, I know, but not when you're dying to get married and have kids with The One), nor had she ever met a guy who so enthralled her with his looks, charm, power, money, sex.

I don't even think she had to be evil nor a psychopath prior, to progress to this point. The important thing is she murdered him in cold blood.

 

[SMK]

right-we haven't seen stalking/obsession to the extent she did those with Travis in her prior relationships. but there was plenty of trouble in her prior relations with men.

I think Jodi has had low self esteem from way before she met Travis. I see her as an empty shell of a person with no identity and a parasitic lifestyle. how does a woman feel lovable or adequate if she gets to age 27 and she has a string of broken relationships behind her, is a h.s. dropout, is not able to support herself, has strained relations with family & has no close women friends-? the only thing she felt she had to offer was her sexuality.
when Travis tells her to stay away, she keeps coming around. Most normal people have too much respect for themselves to keep going back where they are not wanted or welcome...over & over & over again! Normal people with good self esteem/respect do not invade other's privacy, break into other's homes, hack into cell phones, email, steal journals, slash tires, send threatening letters etc.

one of her many manipulative behaviors is to “come on” to any male in contact with her like she did with Det. Flores, in those police interviews and as some of Travis' friends have stated. manipulating men with sex is a power base for her.

did you read what ShadyLadySleuth posted:


"She has met the man of her dreams, who could have given her the "rock star" life she wanted. She tried so hard to be the "one" he chose. After all she did to please him, kinky sex, etc., be the perfect girlfriend for him, she finally realized she would never be his wife. This crushed her ego but she pretended all was well with her. She moved back to where she came from - a tiny town nobody ever heard of - back to her grandparents little house, without many prospects job wise or man wise. To me, that would feel like failure. Back home with my tail between my legs, 27 years old, not married, and no job. Back living with Grandma and Grandpa. A failure! But Jodi is a different kind of woman. She won't admit any of this was her fault. She turns it all around, in her mind, and blames everyone else! It was Travis fault! His friends rejected me! She gets so angry and resentful and broods about it obsessively. She has to make him pay for her pain! For her failures. With his life."

I think the 'why" is she got to a place of rage/anger and she felt a need to extract a kind of vengeance that would be justified for the wrongs she believed were done against against her. mostly rejection. Dr Drew's one stalking expert guest said Jodi is a "jealous" stalker.
This kind of stalker - apparently there are different kinds of stalkers- can easily end up murdering the person they are obsessively stalking. [ If I recall correctly ]

Yes, this was where she went wrong: When she had to move back home, this would have been a good time to take stock and get some therapy- try and begin anew and to learn something from what went wrong with Travis. But as bolded above, she could only see HIS blame, not her own.

 

[SMK]

I wonder if this would be a totally different trial if not for the pictures. Would her defense still be "I wasn't there" ? Thinking she could explain away why her hair, palm print and even her blood was there. There would be no talk of his "issues" because after all she just wasn't there.

Yes, if she had taken the camera with her as she surely meant to do, she would be sticking with "I wasn't there", palm print be damned.

 

[westies4ever]

Very, very interesting about the jealous stalker. If she never had such strong feelings for the other men, that would explain the intesnity with TA. One of the reasons I don't buy she was just going to kill him,as in just shoot him is I think she wanted him to know he was going to die. I think she wanted to inflict pain, not just kill him.

The video's of Travis telling his story of being held at gunpoint and his reactions to it really stand out to me.

I think Jodi wanted to recreate that...she had heard the story many times. She even looked "put off" by all the attention TA received while telling it.

I think she is very sadistic. That gives her great satisfaction and a sense of "winning". I'm 100% certain that she remembers every single detail of when she murdered him.

 

[Turtles]

Very, very interesting about the jealous stalker. If she never had such strong feelings for the other men, that would explain the intesnity with TA. One of the reasons I don't buy she was just going to kill him,as in just shoot him is I think she wanted him to know he was going to die. I think she wanted to inflict pain, not just kill him.

Something that I have wondered and forget to ask, Did any of the men in ja's previous relationships break it off with her first or did she leave first on her terms? TIA

 

[Chester_from_THM]

The case for Jodi having ASPD - antisocial personality disorder:

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/diagnosing-jodi-arias-part-three-of-three/

Links to Parts 1 and 2 are on the right side of the page.

I am so glad you posted this Deb. This blog is fascinating and I lost the link when my system crashed.

All of those posts about JA are very interesting.

 

[lil_buddy]

Has there been proof that she took the photos? Other than her saying she did?

Define confession. Is saying in court that you did something a confession? She's done that am I right?

Has the palm print been matched to her and if so does that prove she killed him or was she just there and so overwhelmed by the enormity of the fact that the one man she devoted her life to, changed her hair for and converted her RELIGION to be with,was dead when she arrived after going to the convenience store for another tube of KY.????

The whole thing is just ridiculous.

The enormity of the evidence showing that JA killed TA is incontrovertible.
I suggest familiarizing yourself with the evidence.
Absolutely the bloody palm print was matched to her and blood at the scene was DNA matched to her.
Pictures of JA were on the camera - the date matching the pics of the murder.
The only way the evidence could be more damning is if the murder was videotaped by a third party.
If you watch the trial and interrogation tapes JA initially denies ever being in Mesa - this is the first day of her arrest.
The second day of arrest JA tells police intruders did it.
Two years later, after many different lawyers quitting her case, including herself giving self-representation a go, she says she did it, but it was self defense.

She has never admitted it was 1st degree premeditated murder. There is plenty of evidence to support premeditation, go look it up.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

Something that I have wondered and forget to ask, Did any of the men in ja's previous relationships break it off with her first or did she leave first on her terms? TIA

Someone wrote a great post about this, but I could never find it again.

Basically, the gist was that Jodi always claims she is the one doing the breaking up, and usually (always?) it was based on the boyfriend 'cheating' on her.

However, I believe that this is just her mechanism for always being in control of everyone and everything. And she has to think she was the one doing the leaving.

In the case of Bobby and Matt, it seems reasonable that the reality is they had broken up with her and were moving on. Jodi, not accepting that, acts as if they are still a couple and confronts them or new girlfriend about the 'cheating'. Now she can use this as a reason to have to break up (in her mind).

Just my opinion. Wish I knew who posted about this, they explained it much better.:twocents:

ETA: Darryl was the exception, at least to the cheating. She left him for Travis.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

Here is what I have a hard time wrapping my head around. JA had no previous history of being O/C with other relationships rage, stalking. With the exception of TA's friends..no one has put forth that she was "evil" and you could tell. All the accusations about slashed tires,breaking into FB and accounts, came from Travis. What was it about this relationship in her eyes that made her decide to murder him? To be fair, we did not see a mass group of men from previous relationships saying she was a stalker, ect.
So once again, her relationship with Travis and what really happened here is important to me. Becuase at the end of the day, she might have done everything she is accused( which I do beleive)but I still can't get the why for sure.

She did have previous incidents, snooper. The ones we know about from testimony are Bobby and Matt. With Bobby, she snooped in his e-mail, from communications with another woman, and immediately drove to Bobby and confronted him about 'cheating.'

With Matt, she drove 1.5 hours to confront Matt's new gf Bianca, when some work colleague told her Matt was cheating on her.

These are just the ones she admitted to, who knows what other examples may be out there.

But I do think that with Travis, everything was more extreme, emotionally. As many others have stated more eloquently, I think she blamed Travis for rejecting her, and thus her dreams of a parasitic high life were shattered, and she had to get revenge. I think this hadn't happened with previous boyfriends because they didn't have much to offer, financial, social status wise, so she could discard them and easily move on to the next mark.

She could not stand to be discarded by Travis, and the situation just pushed all the right buttons (that were probably there all along, just didn't have the right triggers) that justified/required her to obliterate him.

 

[marikesh]

I think what changes in JA's personality is that she realizes she's caught and she can't get out of it. Anger management and ownership could be something she may want to work on. I don't see a parole board releasing her anytime soon. If so, lock up your brothers, sons, and any male you know. She'll kill again, she creeps me out. Especially, the "I smiled in my mug shot because I was thinking of Travis." What, per se, were you thinking of Travis at that moment? How you killed him and dumped him like a wet towel? Chilling. I just want justice for Travis and his family. I hope that people take away from this that boundaries are great things, healthy adult sexual relationships are okay- not weapons, and gender doesn't matter if you're a killer you deserve punishment.

BBM
That is exactly why I think her ex-bfs interviewed as they did more in favor of Jodi ... not stalking and being a real nice person ... because they are afraid that she will come after them when and if she is released.

 

[shelley921]

Yes, this was where she went wrong: When she had to move back home, this would have been a good time to take stock and get some therapy- try and begin anew and to learn something from what went wrong with Travis. But as bolded above, she could only see HIS blame, not her own.

It's hard to love well if you don't feel lovable.
Self love is always the limiting factor in loving others.

you will never feel loved if you do not love yourself.

I feel that how you see, feel about, think about, treat and
behave toward OTHERS is a direct reflection of
how you see, feel about, think about, treat and
behave towards YOURSELF...

I also think if you can be gentle and compassionate and kind and loving with
yourself, you will be that way towards others......

self hatred is the hidden underbelly all the violence & nastiness in the world.

NOT loving ourselves makes it hard to let others really love us.

there are "bad" people - yes-but i think there are also a lot of very
"badly loved" people. feeling love circulating through you makes you want to celebrate and nurture life - not destroy it.


REAL power is acting in your own best interests. so yes a person without the mental instability, personality disorder, narcissism & whatever else is wrong with jodi might have taken stock, gotten therapy and gotten some education. acted in her own best interests- instead of brooding and blaming.

the road to psychological ruin begins with BLAME.
the act of blaming renders you powerless. how did ANY of what she did HELP her?

 

[Cate49]

Just FYI, it's the Sheriff, not the warden, who's famous for the pink underwear. Also, it's my understanding that only the little fish sleep in "tent city." Mostly DUI's and petty crimes. Jail time for DUI is mandatory in AZ and if you're busted you are very likely to wind up there. And I know people personally who have. And Sheriff Joe does not care WHO you are. Plenty of soccer moms have had the privilege. I'm sure that's no fun in, say August.

Karmandy: thanks for correcting warden to sherief. The little fish are plentiful in Arizona and tents plentiful. It would not be nice to live in tent city or in the prison buildings. I'm sure that those with lower level crimes don't enjoy working on chaingang in august or the working farm. They do hard labour for ridiculous low wages. In my eyes this is modern day slavery. Arizona is not the only state that prisoners work for pennies in kitchen, farm, janitory services ect.

 

[SMK]

Karmandy: thanks for correcting warden to sherief. The little fish are plentiful in Arizona and tents plentiful. It would not be nice to live in tent city or in the prison buildings. I'm sure that those with lower level crimes don't enjoy working on chaingang in august or the working farm. They do hard labour for ridiculous low wages. In my eyes this is modern day slavery. Arizona is not the only state that prisoners work for pennies in kitchen, farm, janitory services ect.

Yes, there have been many scholarly and legal essays written about 21st century slavery in the form of corporations using prisoners and the disabled. It affects more people than were slaves prior to the civil war.

 

[Cate49]

Yes, of course I (and likely others) can understand that. I appreciate your post, and it is true that in cases of abuse like yours and others( and like Travis') the victim , though having flaws like any other human being, should not be the one being questioned. I have had similar in my own past, and it was infuriating ( "Didn't you know not to trust him?, Why did you allow that ? etc. , etc. Yes, it is maddening.)

Also, I agree: Maybe Travis did not file a restraining order because he figured that would only inflame JA more, or make her go after Lisa or others. Also, would a restraining order have even stopped Jodi? She snuck in any case...

AFJ: my post was about others that have ideas different from the majority still should be able to post here. Some of my posts are not my position but I do that to generate conversation. I hope you continue to post because your experience will be appreciated on this thread.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I read the above article...it's a very good read. Like I said earlier...at the very least JA is a narcissist. Lately, my own personal opinion is that she is a psychopath or has ASPD
But I also see those narcissistic traits come out in her now and then.
Can these personality disorders combine or overlap?

Uh, they almost always do; some more pronounced than others. DYODD.

Just my :twocents:

 

[crimesnooper]

She did have previous incidents, snooper. The ones we know about from testimony are Bobby and Matt. With Bobby, she snooped in his e-mail, from communications with another woman, and immediately drove to Bobby and confronted him about 'cheating.'

With Matt, she drove 1.5 hours to confront Matt's new gf Bianca, when some work colleague told her Matt was cheating on her.

These are just the ones she admitted to, who knows what other examples may be out there.

But I do think that with Travis, everything was more extreme, emotionally. As many others have stated more eloquently, I think she blamed Travis for rejecting her, and thus her dreams of a parasitic high life were shattered, and she had to get revenge. I think this hadn't happened with previous boyfriends because they didn't have much to offer, financial, social status wise, so she could discard them and easily move on to the next mark.

She could not stand to be discarded by Travis, and the situation just pushed all the right buttons (that were probably there all along, just didn't have the right triggers) that justified/required her to obliterate him.

Good Lord has this trial gone on so long that I completely forgot about the examples you mentioned or are my senior moments now senior days! Thanks for refeshing my terrible memory.

 

[lil_buddy]

Something that I have wondered and forget to ask, Did any of the men in ja's previous relationships break it off with her first or did she leave first on her terms? TIA

According to JA (= big fat grain of salt), she has always been the dumper.